Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[jis]

Kissimmee is about one hour drive from my place straight down 192. If I go, that is where I will go. I have to drive a bit over an hour to get on 97 anyway, and then after I take 92 back I still have to drive over an hour back home. So no point in doing that. That points run will be done the following day on 91/98 for lunch in Kissimmee instead. Over an hour drive to Orlando back too.

Kissimmee is actually the Amtrak station that is closest to me, until of course Amtrak starts serving the FEC route. If and when they do it. Melbourne will become the closest station, about 4 miles away.

The other good thing about driving is no need for overnight plan.

 

[fairviewroad]

Kind of a newb question: Why would putting a baggage car on a line without checked baggage service be helpful?

Edit to add: Or are you hoping that putting a baggage car on there would help establish baggage service?

In the case of the Pennsylvanian, four of the stations along the route already have checked baggage service for other trains. This includes

NYP, NWK, PHL and PIT. So if there was a baggage car, Amtrak could easily offer check bags from the 3 big NEC stations to PIT. [strictly

speaking, you are already be able to check a bag from those stations to PIT, but it must travel via DC.]

My guess is if they ever added checked bags on the Pennsylvania, you'd limit it to the aforementioned stations plus Harrisburg, Altoona

and Johnstown.

By the way, how long do you think it will be until a video of the baggage train special move will show up on one of those truther "FEMA

Death Trains" websites??? ^_^

 

[jis]

Lancaster might get it too, since it had it in the past AFAIR. And it is a staffed station.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

So its safe to assume all of the new veiwliners will dead head to Hialeah where they will be inspected and accepted. Then the process will be to send heritage cars on their last revenue runs to Florida where they will be stored and a new veiwliner will take their place in the consist.

I just wonder why they aren't sent to Sunnyside to replace 20 heritage cars all at once.

Also why are they sending the heritage cars to Hialeah for storage rather than Bear or Beech Grove which appear to have much more space than Hialeah on google maps.

 

[PRR 60]

Of course, PennDOT would have to accept the extra cost to the state for adding a baggage car to the consist. Since the Pennsylvanian was thrown over the wall to the state, what happens with the train is now the state's call.

 

[printman2000]

(sorry, missed that this was already posted)

 

[jis]

So its safe to assume all of the new veiwliners will dead head to Hialeah where they will be inspected and accepted. Then the process will be to send heritage cars on their last revenue runs to Florida where they will be stored and a new veiwliner will take their place in the consist.

I just wonder why they aren't sent to Sunnyside to replace 20 heritage cars all at once.

Also why are they sending the heritage cars to Hialeah for storage rather than Bear or Beech Grove which appear to have much more space than Hialeah on google maps.

Are they sending the Heritage Baggage cars to Hialeah for storage? I did not know that.
Unless I see some documentary evidence of that, I have difficulty believing that. Does not make much logistical sense.

 

[fairviewroad]

Lancaster might get it too, since it had it in the past AFAIR. And it is a staffed station.

LNC lost its baggage service many decades ago. Even as far back as 1979, the Broadway Limited's timetable noted

that checked baggage was not available in Lancaster. (It was offered in 1976...I didn't do an exhaustive search to find

when it was specifically discontinued).

And I'm not sure it would be easy to re-establish without some expensive upgrades. The current elevators to the platforms

are not large enough to handle luggage carts.** I don't think those old decrepit freight elevators there were ever repaired.

**Actually, they might be large enough to handle Redcap-style luggage carts...I was thinking of the larger luggage carts

that you often see for LD trains. Of course, there are no Redcaps in LNC. Anyhow, if Amtrak really wanted to offer checked

bags in LNC, they could. But I'd imagine they wouldn't want to extend the dwell time on the busy Keystone corridor. From HAR

west, there's not as much need for a quickie station stop.

 

[MikefromCrete]

So its safe to assume all of the new veiwliners will dead head to Hialeah where they will be inspected and accepted. Then the process will be to send heritage cars on their last revenue runs to Florida where they will be stored and a new veiwliner will take their place in the consist.

I just wonder why they aren't sent to Sunnyside to replace 20 heritage cars all at once.

Also why are they sending the heritage cars to Hialeah for storage rather than Bear or Beech Grove which appear to have much more space than Hialeah on google maps.

Hialeah is the base for the Viewliner I cars, so the employees there would have more experience in making sure everything is OK with the new cars. Nobody's said anything about storing the Heritage baggage cars there, unless Amtrak has lined up a scrapping contractor down there. I would assume the old cars will end up at Beech Grove for disposition.

 

[jis]

ESPA now reconfirms that there will be more cars released by CAF on Friday. There will be a second special move to Albany on Friday. What will happen after that has not been mentioned by anyone so far.

 

[MikefromCrete]

So why are all these units going to the Hileah shop?

It's the Viewliner maintenance center. At the very least, the spare parts are going to be stored there.
(I hope they're stored on high shelves above the flood level...)

Anyway, they're probably going there to get the Viewliner maintenance staff fully trained on these; probably some of them are trained at this point, but I doubt all of them are.

Are they going to start rotating all the NEC baggage trains to eventually come through Miami, drop off the ancient beast and then pick up the new guy?

Are there 20 consists between the Meteor, Star, Crescent, LSL, and 66/67?

Meteor: 4Star: 4

Crescent: 4

66/67: 2

Palmetto: 2

Carolinian: 2

LSL: 3, but 2 baggage cars each (6 baggage cars)

Cardinal: 2

Capitol Limited: 3

----

29

If the extra nine cars coming out of CAF later in the week are really happening, that's 29; enough to completely remove the Heritage baggage cars from the East Coast, except for "protect" service.

In the short term, the Heritage cars will probably continue to be stationed as protect cars, with the excess sent to Chicago to cover Western/Midwestern trains. As lightly used protect cars they can probably struggle along a little longer than if they're in regular service, so I'd expect Amtrak to prioritize getting the Viewliners into the regular service slots *first* and worry about replacing the protect cars later.

---

It's anyone's guess what happens when more come out after the first 29. Baggage cars are used on some California and midwestern corridor trains, but those are scheduled to be replaced by the new bilevels, so I doubt Amtrak would assign the Viewliner baggage cars there, even temporarily -- why bother to train the corridor-only crews to deal with them? The western long-distance trains use 4+5+6+6+4= 25 cars.

With 54 cars regularly in use apart from midwestern/California corridor services, and a total of 70 ordered (plus 10 bag-dorms), it seems like a lot even after accounting for shop counts and protect cars. Maybe the excess will all go to shop count and protect cars. But it's tempting to suggest that additional trains will get baggage cars. Unfortunately, due to border craziness, I doubt any of the border-crossing trains will get them, and they *are* the most obvious candidates which need them (Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Cascades to Vancouver, Vermonter-which-will-go-to-Montreal-soon). Maybe the Pennsylvanian will get baggage cars, which would help.

No Midwestern corridor trains have baggage cars. They Hiawathas use "cabbage" cars. Cascade trains have their own Talgo baggage cars. Adriondack and a revived Montrealer could use baggage when the new customs station is installed at Montreal's Central Station.

 

[afigg]

So its safe to assume all of the new veiwliners will dead head to Hialeah where they will be inspected and accepted. Then the process will be to send heritage cars on their last revenue runs to Florida where they will be stored and a new veiwliner will take their place in the consist.

I just wonder why they aren't sent to Sunnyside to replace 20 heritage cars all at once.

Also why are they sending the heritage cars to Hialeah for storage rather than Bear or Beech Grove which appear to have much more space than Hialeah on google maps.

Hialeah is the base for the Viewliner I cars, so the employees there would have more experience in making sure everything is OK with the new cars. Nobody's said anything about storing the Heritage baggage cars there, unless Amtrak has lined up a scrapping contractor down there. I would assume the old cars will end up at Beech Grove for disposition.

Have to be careful that someone's speculation does not become someone's else fact. It doesn't make sense for the Heritage baggage cars to end up at Hialeah. The new cars as they get inspected and certified could be sent northward one at a time in revenue service on the Silvers with the Heritage baggage car stuck on the end or the new cars on the end of the Silver consist.
I doubt that Amtrak will scrap the Heritage baggage cars that quickly. Better to wait until the new Viewliners have been in service for a while to protect against unexpected design problems showing up. The fleet plan as of several years ago listed 25 heritage baggage cars to be kept on the service list, presumably in long term storage.

 

[jis]

But I'd imagine they wouldn't want to extend the dwell time on the busy Keystone corridor. From HAR

west, there's not as much need for a quickie station stop.

Keystone Corridor isn't that busy at Lancaster for a few extra minutes of dwell time to really matter.

 

[afigg]

ESPA now reconfirms that there will be more cars released by CAF on Friday. There will be a second special move to Albany on Friday. What will happen after that has not been mentioned by anyone so far.

There is a post on trainorders that lists the baggage car numbers on the special train. If the list is accurate, the highest number in this batch of 18 is 61024 with gaps in the sequence. So the production is up to at least 25 baggage cars. If Hialeah gets through the inspection and acceptance process at a rate of a couple cars a week, the Heritage baggage cars are going to fade from revenue service pretty quickly.
Time is short to get photos of the most decrepit or banged up dirty Heritage baggage cars still in service!

 

[afigg]

Edit again: First YouTube video posted!

There should be a caption for photos and videos of the special train. How about
"Yes, I know there are 18 baggage cars on the train, but it is still $20 for the third checked bag!"

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

If Hialeah gets through the inspection and acceptance process at a rate of a couple cars a week, the Heritage baggage cars are going to fade from revenue service pretty quickly.

Time is short to get photos of the most decrepit or banged up dirty Heritage baggage cars still in service!

I would think Hialeah could handle more than two a week. Surely the cars have passed a full inspection before going down to Florida. If not it will be a headache to send one back to CAF from there.
I assume just a final check, similar to what all cars go through before a revenue departure and they'll be good to go.

 

[neroden]

No Midwestern corridor trains have baggage cars.

Huh. Looks like the baggage cars have been dropped on all of them. I am sure some of them used to.

 

[me_little_me]

Stupid newbie question: what, exactly, is involved in testing?

First and foremost, they add a bathroom so they can find out what it is like when it is used and the car attendant doesn't clean it.

Second, they fill it with passengers to try out the new "high profit" service to satisfy congressional critics.

Third, they try it in revenue service on the silvers using it to replace the diner by filling it with cheap tables and chairs with a single refrigerator holding frozen TV dinners and a microwave for passengers to cook the frozen meals themselves. This is part of Amtrak's new simplified menu to make dining service a profit center instead of a loss leader.

Fourth they test the new security procedures. Passengers board the baggage car instead of their assigned car. Passengers then go through TSA security on board, store their own luggage then proceed to their assigned car or room. If all the passenger's luggage is carry-on, passengers disembark from their car. If not, they must return to the baggage car and pick up their luggage before departing the train. Note that this allows the train to be quickly boarded yet have full security. Amtrak will also be testing out the procedure if passengers cannot find their luggage and disembark before the train leaves their destination. Amtrak will be testing both simply pushing those passengers off the moving train and letting them stand there until the next stop.

Lastly, they test the the baggage cars and see if they work as well as aircraft baggage compartments at damaging passenger luggage.

I was told this by Joe himself. So, OK, it wasn't Boardman but some guy at the bar I was drinking with.

 

[George K]

Stupid newbie question: what, exactly, is involved in testing?

First and foremost, they add a bathroom so they can find out what it is like when it is used and the car attendant doesn't clean it.

(snip)

Lastly, they test the the baggage cars and see if they work as well as aircraft baggage compartments at damaging passenger luggage.

I was told this by Joe himself. So, OK, it wasn't Boardman but some guy at the bar I was drinking with.

Well, that explains why it takes so long, I guess.

 

[Eric S]

No Midwestern corridor trains have baggage cars.

Huh. Looks like the baggage cars have been dropped on all of them. I am sure some of them used to.

I'd have to look through old timetables to be sure, but I think you're right - I'm pretty sure that at least some Michigan trains used to offer checked baggage service.

 

[Paulus]

It's anyone's guess what happens when more come out after the first 29. Baggage cars are used on some California and midwestern corridor trains, but those are scheduled to be replaced by the new bilevels, so I doubt Amtrak would assign the Viewliner baggage cars there, even temporarily -- why bother to train the corridor-only crews to deal with them? The western long-distance trains use 4+5+6+6+4= 25 cars.

Not on the California routes to my knowledge. Cabbages for all of ours (including the NPCUs on the single level sets).

 

[Fan Railer]

First videos of the View II mega move are up on youtube. Credits to the videographer:

 

[user 1215]

Is the Amfleet coach on the back just to let it keep "P" speeds?

 

[jis]

No. It is for the staff traveling with the train. This train has no real need to travel at P speed anyway, though it most likely might.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Any idea what number the trains will have and if they will be trackable?