Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Amfleeter]

I understand Charlotte since the Carolinian terminates there, but why Raleigh? The Piedmonts aren't getting one are they?

The Silver Star and the Carolinian both stop at Raleigh, along with the Piedmonts. It's a decent station, by numbers of trains, plus a terminus for one.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I can take care of most of this at once:

Hmmm, so lessee. They've probably trained everyone at Miami already. Looks like they're going to be training in DC, NY, and Chicago simultaneously. (And maybe Boston too?) Hopefully we'll see a comprehensive east coast deployment ASAP. (The benefits to the slow-running trains west of Chicago are less, so I'd expect the east coast to get them first.)

Here's a question, though I think I've guessed the answer. What do they do about training engineers and conductors who report to miscellaneous crew bases? (Such as Toledo, Buffalo, Syracuse, etc.) You can't move the baggage car to them; nowhere to park it. Do they have to take a trip to Miami, DC or NY for training?

I understand Charlotte since the Carolinian terminates there, but why Raleigh? The Piedmonts aren't getting one are they?

I understand Charlotte since the Carolinian terminates there, but why Raleigh? The Piedmonts aren't getting one are they?

The Silver Star and the Carolinian both stop at Raleigh, along with the Piedmonts. It's a decent station, by numbers of trains, plus a terminus for one.

MATTW: the answer to RGH lies in Neroden's question. They are not only positioning cars for training at mechanical facilities (BOS, NYP, WAS ,NOL, CHI as examples) and turn around points (CLT, NPN ,RVR, SAV as examples), they are trying to position the cars at actual crew bases for maximum crew exposure (NHV,PHL,JAX,RGH,MEI as examples.)

So, as you can see Neroden, the plan is quite comprehensive and already in play.

The next wave from the factory is just around corner (weather permitting) and once those cars are done in Halieah, they may be used for west training because this batch is headed for revenue service.

 

[battalion51]

Think about crew bases, not necessarily Mechanincal points. Yes, Mechanical needs to be trained at the outlying points, but Conductors need to be trained too. At some crew bases like MEI, JAX, RGH, TOL, ALB, etc. you've got dozens of Conductors to train, and it will take a week or two to get everyone done since you can't just pull everyone in at one time.

 

[neroden]

MATTW: the answer to RGH lies in Neroden's question. They are not only positioning cars for training at mechanical facilities (BOS, NYP, WAS ,NOL, CHI as examples) and turn around points (CLT, NPN ,RVR, SAV as examples), they are trying to position the cars at actual crew bases for maximum crew exposure (NHV,PHL,JAX,RGH,MEI as examples.)

So, as you can see Neroden, the plan is quite comprehensive and already in play.

Thank you! Neat!
It makes obvious sense to put one at PHL... but I didn't think there was anywhere to park a spare car at Raleigh. Or Charlotte. That must have required negotiation with NS in both cases.

Toledo has ample space to park a car, and Indianapolis does. Does Pittsburgh? For Buffalo NY or Huntington WV I guess CSX would need to cooperate. Which I guess they are doing, because Richmond would require CSX's cooperation.

I keep thinking that there must be some crew reporting points where there is simply no space... Atlanta?

This must have required a lot of discussion with NS and CSX to be able to park the cars at these locations where Amtrak doesn't own its own yards!

The next wave from the factory is just around corner (weather permitting) and once those cars are done in Halieah, they may be used for west training because this batch is headed for revenue service.

 

[Ryan]

Doesn't have to be right at the station, just somewhere nearby. ATL has the track where the equipment can lay over if service is cancelled south of there. Probably a pain to get in to, and can't be used all the time, but for something occasional like this they can make it work.

 

[Guest]

So EVERYONE has to be trained? If EVERYONE hasn't been trained, why are they moving the cars back North?

OK, what exactly does the regular Amtrak people (porters? red caps?) need to be trained for, for Viewliner baggage cars? I mean, isn't it basically (1) walk thru door, (2) stack luggage on floor, (3) walk back out door. Not all that much different from a Heritage baggage car?

 

[jis]

Given how they are being positioned, it would appear that it is the T&E crew that they are targeting. I suppose the OBS crew gets training too but that does not require positioning cars at division points for training.

 

[Ryan]

Quoted for enhanced reading comprehension.

Absolutely. They may not have seats, but aside from direct HVAC control, they may have all of the same operating components and safety systems as the rest of the passenger fleet. This includes six 480volt cables of electricity running through them. The mechanical department and contractors at outlying points must know how to take these cars apart and put them back together within tolerance of initial terminal rules (allowable tread depth, piston travel{if there are pistons] etc.) Indeed, the FRA added one more restriction g to this car which I won't discuss, but I'm sure someone will eventually spill.

The field personnel must know how to troubleshoot, repair and or cut out/bypass the appropriate portions of the brake and electrical systems. Tolerances must be established to determine how much can be cut out. Such questions include what kind of detection systems exist on this 125 mph vehicle. What kind of truck support systems exist and how do you adjust them en route? Do these cars have bearing systems? On board? Outboard? Disk brakes? A combination of tread and disk? Can you cut out a single truck, a single axle or do you cut out the whole control valve and lose the car? Most importantly, where are all of these cut outs located? How many main res tanks are on these cars and how do you bypass them in field?

This isn't a matter of opening and closing doors...which they will train you on for the sake of liability. This standard operating procedure for railroads. This way, if someone pinches their fingers, the company can say there were trained not to do so.

It's called CYA!

 

[jis]

You mean it takes more effort to put a car in service than it takes for me to buy a Bachmann or Walthers model and get it into service on my HO setup? Shocking! Absolutely shocking!

Notice for the humorously impaired.... this is a joke.

 

[R30A]

Atlanta also isn't a crewbase. I would think that the Conductors are the crewmembers in need of training, not the Engineers.
The conductor bases in 2006 according to Trains Magazine are as follows:
(On corridors where it isn't clear which base covers what train, I will list the potentials. Richmond through NY I will consider "NEC" for simplicity)
Sunset- Los Angeles, El Paso, San Antonio, New Orleans
SW Chief- Los Angeles, Albuquerque, La Junta, Kansas City, Chicago
Zephyr- Oakland, Sparks, Salt Lake, Denver, Chicago

Builder- (Portland), Seattle, Shelby, St. Cloud, Chicago
Starlight- (Los Angeles or San Luis Obispo), Sacramento, Portland, (Possibly Seattle)
Crescent- Meridian, Charlotte, NEC
Eagle- San Antonio, Fort Worth, Little Rock, Chicago
Capitol- Toledo, Washington

Lake Shore- Toledo, Albany
Cardinal- Indianapolis, Huntington, NEC
City of NOL- New Orleans, Carbondale (Possibly Chicago)
Carolinian- Raleigh, NEC
Palmetto- Florence, NEC
Silver Star- Miami, Jacksonville, Raleigh, NEC
Silver Meteor- Jacksonville, (Possibly Florence), NEC
Regional- Richmond, Washington, Philadelphia, New York, New Haven, Boston

Other possible routes
Pennsylvanian- Harrisburg, NEC
Vermonter- NEC, Springfield
Adirondack, Ethan Allen, and Maple Leaf- Albany

 

[jis]

For NEC spine Regionals isn't it just: WAS, NYP, NHV, BOS?

For LDs on the NEC spine too it is just: WAS, NYP. They are pretty much treated as NEC trains.

And for Acelas it is: WAS, NYP, BOS.

Keystones have PHL as a crew base AFAIR.

 

[neroden]

You have definitely not listed all the crew bases. Specifically, there are additional engineer reporting points. Toledo-Albany can't be done in one go, for example, and a fragment of a more recent map I've seen shows Buffalo as a crew base:

http://trn.trains.com/railroads/railroad-maps/2014/05/amtrak-crew-districts

 

[R30A]

Buffalo is an engineer base, not a Conductor base. I doubt (but fully accept that I could be entirely incorrect) that the Engineers have much if any specific training with baggage cars.
The lake shore for example, has a Toledo crew from Chicago to Toledo, Toledo conductors from Toledo to Buffalo, Albany conductors from Buffalo to Albany, and full Albany crews from Albany to NYP and BOS. So while there are 5 crews worth of conductors on the Lake shore, they are out of two bases.

 

[neroden]

Ah, I see. Now, it's interesting to note that there is *no way* to park a car at Florence. Which probably explains the placement of a car at Savannah instead.

 

[Thirdrail7]

So EVERYONE has to be trained? If EVERYONE hasn't been trained, why are they moving the cars back North?

OK, what exactly does the regular Amtrak people (porters? red caps?) need to be trained for, for Viewliner baggage cars? I mean, isn't it basically (1) walk thru door, (2) stack luggage on floor, (3) walk back out door. Not all that much different from a Heritage baggage car?

Station personnel will receive training since they help load/unload the car in the stations.. Whether you realize it or not, a lot of the baggage cars have loading plans. The luggage isn't just randomly thrown in the car.

Usually. ^_^

Besides, this car is not like a heritage. It has racks, shelves, areas for pallets/express plus a secure storage area. Once everyone is familiar with the amenities, feedback from the field will help establish a loading plan to minimize station dwell time.

I haven't heard an overall plan to familiarize engineers with the nuances of the bags but I suppose that can vary by division.

Ah, I see. Now, it's interesting to note that there is *no way* to park a car at Florence. Which probably explains the placement of a car at Savannah instead.

Unless something dramatic occurs, FLO will receive a bag.

 

[Guest]

So EVERYONE has to be trained? If EVERYONE hasn't been trained, why are they moving the cars back North?

OK, what exactly does the regular Amtrak people (porters? red caps?) need to be trained for, for Viewliner baggage cars? I mean, isn't it basically (1) walk thru door, (2) stack luggage on floor, (3) walk back out door. Not all that much different from a Heritage baggage car?

It is completely different! I was able to be inside a Viewliner Baggage car today and there is no way I could or would work that car without training. There are racks and shelves, all kinds of latches and handles for moving them up and down. I am sure someone could get hurt without training. The door latches are not simple either.

 

[Guest]

So EVERYONE has to be trained? If EVERYONE hasn't been trained, why are they moving the cars back North?

OK, what exactly does the regular Amtrak people (porters? red caps?) need to be trained for, for Viewliner baggage cars? I mean, isn't it basically (1) walk thru door, (2) stack luggage on floor, (3) walk back out door. Not all that much different from a Heritage baggage car?

Are you trolling? It is peculiar that you would post such a completely erroneous statement if you were on the up and up.

 

[NTL1991]

Station Services employees will need some sort of training on the new baggage cars. It will definitely be nice to see standardization, even just the door setup alone for us on the NEC. 1700 with roll doors (which in Winter means brushing snow off the baggage tags to see where the thing is heading) or 1200 with the sliding doors that are quite physically demanding to open without adding snow and ice to the mix. In either case working the baggage car means taking a flashlight with you to search every corner of the car because neither of the two or three ceiling-mounted light fixtures have working bulbs. Even if they do have working blubs the fixtures are so covered with dirt and grime no light shines through. Dark bags blend in with the color of the horrendously filthy walls and floors.

When you've actually worked inside these cars you really learn to appreciate how bright and organized the new ones are. You can appreciate the double doors that seal properly, preventing snow ingress and the puddle lighting above each door that illuminates the platform. Bike racks that will mean the end to bike boxes forever. Not having to lend passengers tools to fold the handlebars in. Shelving that will help conductors and baggemen organize where baggage and express shipments are grouped. Being able to keep the stuff off the floor if you need too.

And add to this eBaggage which is in the works. Being able to print baggage tags for each and every bag and cross referencing it with each passenger's reservation. Being able to track where and when the bags are loaded and offloaded. It will make it much easier to see where carry-by bags have ended up down the line. Being able to pull up train 66 in the morning to see how many bags I'm expecting, knowing if I need to bring one baggage float or two, or knowing I'll need that pallet jack and plate to receive an express shipment. It's a lot better to know in advance instead of sliding that baggage door open to find two pallets waiting for you, and that pallet jack is upstairs in the baggage room... Not all Conductors are friendly enough to let you know in advance.

Lots of changes coming down the line, but they look good to me.

 

[dlagrua]

Much good info here but the question is when do we see the start of the Viewliner Diners being deployed?. New baggage cars replacing the old well used heritage stuff is great but the diners on the single level trains are ancient. Some date to the 1950's and 1960's and on the Cardinal they use a café car for the "diner lite".

When we rode the Crescent two years ago to NOL, the diner that was on the consist was the original one used by the Southern Railroad on that route. You could still see traces of the Southern RR markings on the side of the car. We have a trip in August to Denver on the Zephyr but beginning on the Cardinal. We hope to see a new Viewliner diner on it but we are not holding our breath. While the Cardinal café car diner lite that we dined in last June served acceptable meals (thanks to Craig, the fantastic chef/server) it would be nice have a full service dining car on that route.

 

[NTL1991]

Viewliner II Baggage Car 61027 deadheaded to Boston on 66 this morning for training.

 

[jis]

Much good info here but the question is when do we see the start of the Viewliner Diners being deployed?.

At the rate things are going not before very late 2015 or early 2016.

 

[neroden]

Unless something dramatic occurs, FLO will receive a bag.

Boy, the freight railroads must be feeling really cooperative with their yard space. Uncharacteristic of them.

 

[battalion51]

Don't forget that at least for a few weeks 90 has been originating in FLO several days a week due to track work. I would suspect they should be able to park the Viewliner wherever they've been servicing the Palmetto.

 

[afigg]

When we rode the Crescent two years ago to NOL, the diner that was on the consist was the original one used by the Southern Railroad on that route. You could still see traces of the Southern RR markings on the side of the car. We have a trip in August to Denver on the Zephyr but beginning on the Cardinal. We hope to see a new Viewliner diner on it but we are not holding our breath. While the Cardinal café car diner lite that we dined in last June served acceptable meals (thanks to Craig, the fantastic chef/server) it would be nice have a full service dining car on that route.

The Cardinal is likely to be the last single level LD train to get one of new diner cars. Until there is enough equipment to permanantly assign 2 sleeper cars and realistically a bag-dorm car as well, not going to make any sense to add a full service diner car if the staff for the diner car takes up most of the roomettes in the 1 sleeper car. Which means, that assuming the Cardinal does eventually get a full service diner car, it won't happen until after the bag-dorms and at least some of the new sleeper cars enter revenue service.

As for when the new diner cars might enter revenue service on any train, at the current pace, it is likely to be no earlier than late 2015. The good news is that if the recent post on the equipment move from Elmira is accurate, 10 more baggage cars are being handed over to Amtrak this week for a total of 38 delivered baggage cars. Which is more than one-half of the 70 baggage cars ordered (after the order change).

 

[tommylicious]

Why do we care about new baggage cars? We don't ride or eat in them!