Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[CCC1007]

no LSL???

Etc. means "and more" such as the cardinal and lake shore limited.

 

[Eric S]

no LSL???

Where do you get that idea?

 

[PVD]

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

 

[JohannFarley]

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

That 3 being 2 and a spare, yes?

 

[CCC1007]

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

That 3 being 2 and a spare, yes?

Nope, 3 train sets circulating on the LSL

 

[JohannFarley]

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

That 3 being 2 and a spare, yes?

Nope, 3 train sets circulating on the LSL

Interesting, I always thought there was only 1 in each direction at a time, splitting and rejoining at Albany. Learn something new everyday.

 

[Acela150]

Thirdrail7,

If I may ask, what does the truck profile work on the VIs entail? Do I recall correctly there were some trains run on the NEC a while back that were part of the certification for VI 125mph certification? How long will all that take? Because if I read Amtrak timetables right, my guess is that they could shave close to an hour (fifty minutes probably) off the Long Distance train schedules on the NEC, which is a pretty big time savings.

Cheers,

Nick

An hour?? More like 5-10 minutes at best.

In other news I apparently can't read a timetable...and mixed up Alexandria with Washington...several times. I revise my statement to about fifteen minutes...and shutting up.

Nick

Trust me when I say. It's ok. Just be glad you didn't mix up the two if you were getting off the train.

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

This is true. To add to the info in your post. The LSL was selected to lose its diner as it only serves two meals in each direction. Compared to the Meteor or the Crescent. Which serve I believe 3. If not 4.

 

[DennisInGeorgia]

Seems like a long train just to pick up 2 cars. Is that to comfortably handle a quite-large crew? But at a minimum, what are the 2 cars just behind the bag? Bag/sleeper combination? Wow!

 

[PerRock]

Seems like a long train just to pick up 2 cars. Is that to comfortably handle a quite-large crew? But at a minimum, what are the 2 cars just behind the bag? Bag/sleeper combination? Wow!

It's a revenue train that's hauling 2 new cars down in addition to it's normal service. The two cars at the very end are the new Dining cars it picked up.

peter

 

[Agent]

Another video from yesterday of the two new diners on the Silver Meteor. This one was taken at New York Pennsylvania Station by The [Transport Net]. It looks like there were a few people in the diners.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Yes the diners are beauties. Any idea what lines they're going to join?

The eastern single-level long-distance trains: The Silver Meteor, The Silver Star (if, of course, they ever put the diner back on), the Crescent, the Cardinal (I think), and the Lake Shore Limited.

 

[jis]

I got hold of Joe McHugh at the NARP Reception and bent his ears a bit about returning Diners to the Star. He said that once all the new Diners are delivered they will have the flexibility to revisit the issue, which of course is as good a non committal and yet non-negative answer that one could give.

 

[tommylicious]

Wow those cars are beauties. Just hope Amtrak doesn't force them to serve private prison cost-minimized slop and instead gives them real food!

 

[Ziv]

They do look good. Odd note that I took away is that #8532 is a Dining Car but Atlanta and Augusta are Diners. The increasingly casual, plebeian, monosyllabic nature of American society? Dining Cars imply china plates but Diners are ok with disposable plates? LOL!

I hope these new Diners keep showing up on a regular basis!

 

[Lonestar648]

Saying "Diner" does open the door for a wide variety of food service, leaning more towards the paper/plastic plate service. Miss the meals from the Dining Car days. Unfortunately, people are less and less formal in most everything, so probably, the Marketing Dept. wanted to keep to the less formal format.

 

[west point]

Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

What we all need to accept is that there are not any known facts about the V-2 diners or the Heritage diners. How long are each of the H-1s going to last ? How soon will temporary service of the V-2 and new problems be found and changed ? Will new V-2s go on Silvers with spare H-1 in MIA and NYP ? After next batch of V-2s are delivered and approved for constant service where the first 2 , 3, 4 go ?

If this poster was planning once at least 4 -6 V-2s in service 3 H-1s would be assigned to LSL only if they are still serviceable. Once 8 H-1 removed from front line service would keep a spare H-1 in NOL, CHI, MIA, NYP to protect the upgraded diner service that Moorman has instituted.

All in all the uncertainty of V-2 deliveries, acceptance time, route proved, and H-1 failure means that probably Amtrak has several plans depending on various permutations of the various uncertainties. Of course there may be more ? ?

In the airline industry there is usually a 2 - 3 month delay of a direct airplane replacement in case of new airplane develops unforeseen problems.

 

[PVD]

That's why I said "hopefully", the tone of "wishful thinking" I know better than to say this or that is definitely going to happen.

 

[west point]

If I were Amtrak would keep Heritage on LSL until V-2s all on NYP <> WASH LD trains. Remember the Heritage MAS appears to be 90 MPH. 90 MPH on the higher speeds of NYP <> WASH get more interference than the LSL route. Even NJT, SEPTA, & MARC also operate faster than 90 MPH.

 

[Ryan]

The LSL hasn't had a Heritage diner since last summer, so it isn't possible to keep one on there.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Thirdrail7,

If I may ask, what does the truck profile work on the VIs entail? Do I recall correctly there were some trains run on the NEC a while back that were part of the certification for VI 125mph certification? How long will all that take? Because if I read Amtrak timetables right, my guess is that they could shave close to an hour (fifty minutes probably) off the Long Distance train schedules on the NEC, which is a pretty big time savings.

Cheers,

Nick

Well, technically they have to adjust the wheels from the Apta wheel profile to the NRCC Wheel Proflie.

What that exactly entails is over my head but from what I understand, they have to do something to the actual trucks on the Viewliner Is. I was told is was something minor

An hour?? More like 5-10 minutes at best.

In other news I apparently can't read a timetable...and mixed up Alexandria with Washington...several times. I revise my statement to about fifteen minutes...and shutting up.

Nick

The traffic load makes all of the difference in the world. However, if the northbound trains remain "discharge" only, the run could be made 2'45" although I doubt they'll schedule it. One day, 50 showed up on the NEC without its sleeper ,which made it a "B" train (125 max.) It made the run in 2:32. Two weeks late, it made the run with its sleeper (110 max) and they made the run over the NEC in 2:33 minutes. Someone in high (though unrelated to a T&E position) accused the crew of speeding, saying it was impossible for this to happen since they had a decent load and a war broke out.

So, don't understand the potential of 125 max with an efficient crew, no traffic and creative dispatching.

If I were Amtrak would keep Heritage on LSL until V-2s all on NYP <> WASH LD trains. Remember the Heritage MAS appears to be 90 MPH. 90 MPH on the higher speeds of NYP <> WASH get more interference than the LSL route. Even NJT, SEPTA, & MARC also operate faster than 90 MPH.

Heritage equipment is good for 110mph. The only heritage equipment that wasn't is the 10031 dome car and they raised that to 110mph last year.

 

[jis]

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

That 3 being 2 and a spare, yes?

Nope, 3 train sets circulating on the LSL

Interesting, I always thought there was only 1 in each direction at a time, splitting and rejoining at Albany. Learn something new everyday.

If you want to think of it in those terms, the way to see it is that there is one set running each way and one overnighting in Sunnyside/Southampton Street. That is how you get three.

In general if you have a service that runs over one night, if a consist can be turned at each end without spending a night at the end point, you'd require two sets. If a consist has to stay overnight at one end you'd require three, and if a consist has to stay overnight at both ends, you'd need four (hence, the silvers and Crescent need four).

 

[JohannFarley]

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

That 3 being 2 and a spare, yes?

Nope, 3 train sets circulating on the LSL

Interesting, I always thought there was only 1 in each direction at a time, splitting and rejoining at Albany. Learn something new everyday.

If you want to think of it in those terms, the way to see it is that there is one set running each way and one overnighting in Sunnyside/Southampton Street. That is how you get three.
In general if you have a service that runs over one night, if a consist can be turned at each end without spending a night at the end point, you'd require two sets. If a consist has to stay overnight at one end you'd require three, and if a consist has to stay overnight at both ends, you'd need four (hence, the silvers and Crescent need four).

Ahh ok, that makes sense. I'm quite new to the technicalities of operations so I don't know these things.

 

[A Voice]

The LSL lost full diners not because of a decision to down grade the train, but in response to the shrinking numbers of available Heritage diners. Hopefully, in the not to distant future, the pace of diner deliveries will advance to the point where new diners arrive faster than Heritage fall out of service, and the LSL is back on board. I believe the LSL has 3 sets, so you would need to be + 3 over the present complement.

That 3 being 2 and a spare, yes?

Nope, 3 train sets circulating on the LSL

Interesting, I always thought there was only 1 in each direction at a time, splitting and rejoining at Albany. Learn something new everyday.

If you want to think of it in those terms, the way to see it is that there is one set running each way and one overnighting in Sunnyside/Southampton Street. That is how you get three.
In general if you have a service that runs over one night, if a consist can be turned at each end without spending a night at the end point, you'd require two sets. If a consist has to stay overnight at one end you'd require three, and if a consist has to stay overnight at both ends, you'd need four (hence, the silvers and Crescent need four).

Ahh ok, that makes sense. I'm quite new to the technicalities of operations so I don't know these things.

The easiest way to figure how many trainsets are required is to determine how many departures will pass until the first set out can return to the origin point and be serviced. For instance, the City of New Orleans leaves Chicago on a Monday evening, arriving in New Orleans on Tuesday afternoon at 3:32; It's northbound counterpart has already departed, so obviously the train turns overnight, arriving back in Chicago on Thursday at 9:00. That leaves nearly eleven hours until train 59's southbound departure, so the train can make a same day turn. Hence, you need three trainsets to cover departures Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday; The first set which went out Monday is again available to cover Thursday's train.

In the past, Amtrak had instituted 'run-through' operations with some trains at Chicago, such as the arriving eastbound Empire Builder continuing on south to New Orleans as the same day train 59 (with the Builder's extra cars along for the ride, but unoccupied).

 

[Lonestar648]

Didn't they also do run through TE to CL for a while since both use a similar consist in the winter?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Didn't they also do run through TE to CL for a while since both use a similar consist in the winter?

I think it was TE-CONO - or at least the shared equipment.