Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[cpotisch]

They'll have 19 cars ready for use by the end of the month...Perhaps surplus is an exaggeration, but they certain aren't running low.

Concur:19-20 4 cars

97-98 4 cars

448-449 4 cars

SSY protect 1

BOS protect 1

CHI protect 1

NOL protect 1

HIA protect 1

Shops HIA BEE 2 cars

Think that makes 19

Nothing has come to anyone's attention to suggest any difficulties with delivery with 23 Springfield and 24 Tallahassee. When "Son of Summer from Hell" is over and 48-49 resumes service, there will no longer be need for a BOS protect and only three cars are needed for an NYP-CHI 48-49.

Do they really keep spare V-IIs at all five termini? Thought the main locations are Sunnyside and Hialeah...

 

[AmtrakBlue]

They'll have 19 cars ready for use by the end of the month...Perhaps surplus is an exaggeration, but they certain aren't running low.

Concur:19-20 4 cars

97-98 4 cars

448-449 4 cars

SSY protect 1

BOS protect 1

CHI protect 1

NOL protect 1

HIA protect 1

Shops HIA BEE 2 cars

Think that makes 19

Nothing has come to anyone's attention to suggest any difficulties with delivery with 23 Springfield and 24 Tallahassee. When "Son of Summer from Hell" is over and 48-49 resumes service, there will no longer be need for a BOS protect and only three cars are needed for an NYP-CHI 48-49.

Do they really keep spare V-IIs at all five termini? Thought the main locations are Sunnyside and Hialeah...

Why wouldn't they? If a diner breaks down on 19 do you think the pax on 20 should be without a diner for the trip back north?

 

[PVD]

I thought the LSL was 3 sets....

 

[cpotisch]

I thought the LSL was 3 sets....

It normally is, but he was saying that there are currently four Boston sets. But thinking about it, Im not sure how you could have more of one section than other, so dont there have to be three no matter what?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

I thought the LSL was 3 sets....

It normally is, but he was saying that there are currently four Boston sets. But thinking about it, Im not sure how you could have more of one section than other, so dont there have to be three no matter what?

Given sufficiently different runtimes, there is no reason that two sections of the same route couldn't run with a different number of trainsets. However, both sections of the Lake Shore Limited only require three trainsets since they are able to make a same-day turn in Chicago but not New York or Boston.

 

[Trogdor]

I think more than a few of us are lost in this conversation, and struggling to tell whether folks are discussing current Viewliber diner allocation (which runs on two trains, using a total of 8 cars, plus whatever protect equipment) and potential future allocation, which may or may not include the Lake Shore Limited (3 sets, regardless of BOS or NYP turn), and for which there has been no indication that one will be included on the Boston-only train during this upcoming summer.

 

[cpotisch]

I think more than a few of us are lost in this conversation, and struggling to tell whether folks are discussing current Viewliber diner allocation (which runs on two trains, using a total of 8 cars, plus whatever protect equipment) and potential future allocation, which may or may not include the Lake Shore Limited (3 sets, regardless of BOS or NYP turn), and for which there has been no indication that one will be included on the Boston-only train during this upcoming summer.

At the moment, we're talking about the latter. A few posts ago, we were talking about the former...

 

[neroden]

I heard an interesting piece of information at the RPA Meeting.

Apparently CAF has already paid up all the penalties and is not legally bound to deliver anything further. Apparently Amtrak is coaxing and cajoling them with some additional enticement to complete delivery of the remaining order, since Amtrak has already got a lot of sunk money in the modules and what not.

This raises the questions as to how long Amtrak would be willing to continue to do so.

If this is true, it is for sure a cockup of epic proportions.

Good God. You'd think CAF would want to deliver the cars rather than leaving them lying around. The real question is why Amtrak didn't demand that the sleepers be delivered first, since they're the revenue generators.

 

[cpotisch]

I heard an interesting piece of information at the RPA Meeting.

Apparently CAF has already paid up all the penalties and is not legally bound to deliver anything further. Apparently Amtrak is coaxing and cajoling them with some additional enticement to complete delivery of the remaining order, since Amtrak has already got a lot of sunk money in the modules and what not.

This raises the questions as to how long Amtrak would be willing to continue to do so.

If this is true, it is for sure a cockup of epic proportions.

Good God. You'd think CAF would want to deliver the cars rather than leaving them lying around. The real question is why Amtrak didn't demand that the sleepers be delivered first, since they're the revenue generators.

I think because the Heritage cars were on the they're last legs, they wanted to replace the diners and baggage cars. I do feel like sleepers should have come before bag-dorms, though. The bag-dorms don't generate revenue, and aren't replacing any old cars, so in my mind it would have made most sense to finish with them...

 

[stappend]

The Bag dorms will indirectly generate revenue by getting the crew out of revenue space in the current VL1 sleepers. Just for the LSL, 6 crew * $500 per room * 2 trains *365 days = ~$2.2M.

 

[cpotisch]

The Bag dorms will indirectly generate revenue by getting the crew out of revenue space in the current VL1 sleepers.

If they add a V-II sleeper to a train, and allocate six roomettes to the crew, you still get five roomettes, two bedrooms, and an accessible bedroom for revenue passengers. Add a bag-dorm and you don't have any revenue rooms.

 

[stappend]

Adding cars has operational costs, adding a bag dorm, they drop the current bag, or on the LSL one of them, and get extra rooms.

 

[Ziv]

I hear you on the additional costs, stappend, but would the additional revenue that the additional 5 roomettes and 2 bedrooms (of a sleeper vs. a bag-dorm) brings be more than the additional costs? It seems like it would be.

The only time a bag-dorm would make sense is if you didn't have enough baggage cars, and the bag dorm allowed you to have your cake and eat it too, or so it seems to me.

I really wish that the CAF order was going to be bringing the additional sleepers into the fold sooner, rather than later.

Adding cars has operational costs, adding a bag dorm, they drop the current bag, or on the LSL one of them, and get extra rooms.

 

[Lonestar648]

You could use the BagDorm if you have number of cars restriction by dropping the bag car. This is unusual so again limited use of the bag dorms unless you have another use for the bag cars. Or you do not want two full bag cars on one train.

 

[stappend]

Not sure what it costs Amtrak to operate a car, but if you assume they are making 75% off the PV cars, then it costs $0.82 per mile, or just under a $1000 for one direction on the LSL. Using the logic above, this is likely why the original order was changed to reduce the number of bag dorms. With the LSL already being a long train and having 2 bags, someone must have felt it made more sense to swap a bag for the bag/dorm. The Cardinal was stated as the other train to get one, not sure of the reasoning process there, since it doesn't have a 2nd bag or a diner staff. Which made me realize the LSL will soon not have kitchen staff either reducing the number of people needing rooms. In a way because the procurement process has taken so long, needs have changed and Amtrak is making do with what they have on order, even if its not a perfect fit.

 

[PVD]

Keep in mind that adding a full sleeper may add more rooms, but it also adds an additional staff person. getting rooms back for sale in revenue cars does not. Also, a business wants to add supply primarily to maximize yield, too great a supply can drive down prices to the point that you may be carrying more passengers, but not making more money.

 

[Ziv]

I have to admit that part of my rationale for more sleeping cars is reflected in your comment. If there is a larger supply of sleeping cars, I have a better chance of getting low bucket rates when I want to travel. But it isn't all bad, given how relatively quickly sleepers sell up to top bucket most of the time (they don't seem to sell out as often but they do get close) it seems like Amtrak could use quite a few more sleepers while still maintaining a good return on investment. And I can get my Empire Builder trip at low bucket or 2nd low bucket. It is all good!

I think if the sleeper supply remains too high, they would just put a sleeper onto a siding for a week or two and get both cleaning and maintenance done.

Keep in mind that adding a full sleeper may add more rooms, but it also adds an additional staff person. getting rooms back for sale in revenue cars does not. Also, a business wants to add supply primarily to maximize yield, too great a supply can drive down prices to the point that you may be carrying more passengers, but not making more money.

 

[PVD]

It is also part of why I usually end up on a NER to the CL to get to Chicago for a connecting leg. LSL is almost always higher, and often not available.

 

[KnightRail]

NASHVILLE is headed from Washington to Boston tonight/Monday AM. Let the Sleeper Lounge preparations begin.

 

[jis]

Training for Southampton Street folks for handling the LSL?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Training for Southampton Street folks for handling the LSL?

Can't be. We all know that the LSL will never get a new diner. ;p

Of course, it will be just in time for the switch from diner to sleeper lounge.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Training for Southampton Street folks for handling the LSL?

Indeed. It will be for training. Once they are done with it, one will go to CHI. When the LSL reroute occurs, there will be 5 committed to the operation. 3 in the sets, with a protect in CHI and BOS. NOL, NYP and HIA will keep their protects as well.

 

[PRR 60]

Discussion of the Lake Shore Limited, additional cars, and platform lengths has been split into a new topic: Lake Shore Limited and Train Length Issues

 

[Ryan]

Training for Southampton Street folks for handling the LSL?

Indeed. It will be for training. Once they are done with it, one will go to CHI. When the LSL reroute occurs, there will be 5 committed to the operation. 3 in the sets, with a protect in CHI and BOS. NOL, NYP and HIA will keep their protects as well.

That can’t be true, Trainz Magazine says there are 57 Viewliner Diners sitting in Miami rusting away.

 

[cpotisch]

Ok, so last month I said that the three diners should be ready by May 20th. Does anyone know if they are?