Viewliner vs Superliner Roomettes

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

I, of course, was refering to the lack of these items in the superliner roomette, forcing everyone to go downstairs to find restrooms.

There is a restroom upstairs

 

[Big Iron]

Since Viewliner runs are shorter another configuration would be to leave the toilets in the rooms and convert the shower to a public restroom. Just me personally, I've only done East Coast runs in sleepers and have never used the shower in the VL's or SL's. A quick bird bath in the sink generally does the trick.

I rode the Slumbercaoches numerous times with my wife and liked the fact the car had a public restroom.

The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.

 

[colobok]

And the most important thing - instead of showers in the Bedroom they would better put 4 people in the Bedroom

like in European trains.

Taking out the shower wouldn't give you any more room. You'd have to take out the shower, toilet, & sink to gain enough room for 2 more beds, and then just barely. Additionally, it would then prevent you from opening the connecting door to the next room to create a Bedroom Suite.

Bedroom room is the same size as the standard room for 4 people in Europe so remove shower with sink and 4 people will perfectly fit.

First, they would have more capacity and the Second - it would give more options for large groups of travelers.For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?

Only in Family Bedroom that is limited to Western trains only and moreover - there is only 1 (one!) Family Bedroom available in the Superliner car. On the Eastern trains we have no other options rather then buying 2 rooms.

Do you really think somebody will buy 2 rooms to split the family and pay huge cost? Of course, people will prefer to drive or to fly.

It would only be marginally cheaper, as Amtrak would simply charge you more for a 4 bedded room, just like they do know with a family room.

In fact, there are times that it's actually cheaper to book 2 roomettes over a family room.

Not really. 1 bedroom (not family bedroom!) is cheaper than 2 roommettes both in money and in AGR costs.

Plus I don't really want to split the family.

Family bedroom is so expensive because there is only 1 family bedroom on the train.

 

[LA Resident]

I finally took my first cross country trip on Amtrak last December, Cleveland to L.A. on the Lakeshore Ltd connecting to the Zephyr. I've taken lots of trips out of Cleveland to Chicago, NYC and Washington, DC, but finally got to do my trip home to L.A. It was also my first time in a Superliner Roomette, versus a Viewliner Roomette. I have to say, I really didn't like it and had wished I'd gotten a Bedroom. Once the bed was down, I could not turn around in the approximately 1' x 2' space next to the berth, which made changing clothes VERY difficult to say the least (keep in mind I am 6' 2"). While having a toilet in the room is very nice on the Viewliner, it wasn't absolutely necessary to me. But I notice on the Amtrak website it claims that both Viewliner and Superliner Roomettes are 3' 6" wide. This is NOT possible since it also says the lower berths in both cars are 2' 4" wide. In the Viewliner, I have room to turn around when standing next to the berth, because the toilet is at least a foot and a 1/2 wide, while the Superliner had a MUCH narrower little shelf where the toilet would be in the Viewliner, which made for a much narrower space next to the berth. When I asked the SCA why there are no Viewliners on the Western routes, he said he thought it had to do with the tunnels, but the Viewliner is single level, whereas the Superliner is two levels, so how could that be?

Anyone else notice the difference in space? (perhaps I'll have to bring a tape measure when I take the SC home this year!)

In a pre-Amtrak roomette, there was a sink and toilet. I remember them from many rides as a youngster on the Super Chief and the City of Los Angeles. You could use the sink any time. At night, the bed came out from one end of the room and fit over the toilet lid. If you needed to use the bathroom at night, you would have to raise the bed. Inconvenient, but still a better set-up perhaps than the present roomette with no sink and no toilet.

I suppose Amtrak eliminated both in the Superliner roomettes because it saved on a lot of plumbing work and allowed for more sellable spaces. But Pullman had the better idea, IMHO.

 

[nferr]

IMO, it's a downgrade to remove the personal toilet from the Viewliner roomettes. I hope they change that decision. If they don't they better at least keep the sinks. It would be ridiculous to try and wash up in the morning with only two restrooms for eleven roomettes. Keep the personal toilets/sinks and add one public restroom for those traveling double. Only Amtrak tries to reinvent the wheel everytime they order new cars.

 

[MattW]

More plumbing means more points of failure. Having 4 toilets and sinks in the car has GOT to be easier to maintain than what? 12? 14?

 

[spacecadet]

The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.

That doesn't seem right, as the shower is an advertised feature of the sleeping car accommodations on trains that have them.

I do use the shower when I ride in Viewliners.

 

[AlanB]

I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.

Currently in the Viewliner, there are in effect 14 roomettes. Roomettes 1 - 12 are sold to the public. Roomette #13 is given over to the shower and roomette #14 is the sleeping car attendants room.

Under the new design, the attendant will be moved to room #12, the shower remains in #13, and room #14 will be split in half to provide 2 public restrooms. There will only be 11 rooms available for sale to the public with this configuration.

Thanks Alan. I do fear with only 2 restrooms though, that lines might be a problem at times.

In the Superliner currently there is a maximum of 7.75 people per bathroom; in the new Viewliner that will climb to 11.5 people per bathroom. Not great, but not horrible. Consider a Superliner coach where there are 18.75 or an Amfleet I coach where there are 35 people per bathroom.

 

[AlanB]

First, they would have more capacity and the Second - it would give more options for large groups of travelers.For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?

Only in Family Bedroom that is limited to Western trains only and moreover - there is only 1 (one!) Family Bedroom available in the Superliner car. On the Eastern trains we have no other options rather then buying 2 rooms.

Do you really think somebody will buy 2 rooms to split the family and pay huge cost? Of course, people will prefer to drive or to fly.

It would only be marginally cheaper, as Amtrak would simply charge you more for a 4 bedded room, just like they do know with a family room.

In fact, there are times that it's actually cheaper to book 2 roomettes over a family room.

Not really. 1 bedroom (not family bedroom!) is cheaper than 2 roommettes both in money and in AGR costs.

Plus I don't really want to split the family.

Family bedroom is so expensive because there is only 1 family bedroom on the train.

But again, if Amtrak were to design such a room as what you're describing, they won't keep the price the same. They're going to charge more for a room that can hold 4 people, if for no other reason than it will cost them more in food. They might not charge what a Bedroom Suite might cost, but I'm sure that it will be more than what they currently charge and probably more than 2 roomettes.

Regarding the family room, most trains have 2 and some have more. Get the first family room and it's often cheaper than 2 roomettes, and certainly cheaper than 2 Bedrooms.

 

[AlanB]

IMO, it's a downgrade to remove the personal toilet from the Viewliner roomettes. I hope they change that decision. If they don't they better at least keep the sinks. It would be ridiculous to try and wash up in the morning with only two restrooms for eleven roomettes. Keep the personal toilets/sinks and add one public restroom for those traveling double. Only Amtrak tries to reinvent the wheel everytime they order new cars.

I believe that Amtrak has had far more negative feed back from people not likely the un-enclosed toilet than they have had supporting the idea. Hence the reason for the change and reinventing the wheel. Amtrak is simply responding to what the majority of passengers are demanding.

Yes, it probably doesn't hurt either that they'll save some money on plumbing and cleaning too; but this is more about the negative reaction of far too many passengers to the un-enclosed toilet.

Even I have a mixed reaction, love it when I'm soloing, but hate it when my mom is riding with me.

 

[AlanB]

The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.

That doesn't seem right, as the shower is an advertised feature of the sleeping car accommodations on trains that have them.

I do use the shower when I ride in Viewliners.

It happens because too many passenger can't follow the luggage rules and bring foot locker sized luggage on board, instead of checking it. With limited space, the attendant's don't have many choice, it's pretty much either the shower or the vestibule. Neither is an ideal choice.

However, anytime I've ever found luggage in the shower, I simply let the attendant know that I would like to take a shower and they move it temporarily. Typically they'll put it in their own room for the time being, something not exactly fair to them either, but again the choices are limited.

 

[-Jamie-]

I, of course, was refering to the lack of these items in the superliner roomette, forcing everyone to go downstairs to find restrooms.

There is a restroom upstairs

Yes, but out of courtesy I never use that one if I know I'm going to be longer than a couple of minutes.

 

[-Jamie-]

IMO, it's a downgrade to remove the personal toilet from the Viewliner roomettes. I hope they change that decision. If they don't they better at least keep the sinks. It would be ridiculous to try and wash up in the morning with only two restrooms for eleven roomettes. Keep the personal toilets/sinks and add one public restroom for those traveling double. Only Amtrak tries to reinvent the wheel everytime they order new cars.

I wouldn't mind the loss of toilet, but I agree with you on the sink issue for the same reason. If there's only 2 restrooms, I'm going to feel really bad hogging 1 of them for 15 minutes while I get ready in the morning.

 

[daveyb99]

Viewliners: Boo. Might seem a little larger, but ditch that toilet and the 'plastic wrap' feel. also too noisy.

Superliners: Yea. Might seem a little smaller, but are cozy and despite the worn look to the wall carpeting, far better than the plastic cocoon in the Viewliner.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

While I have yet to ride in a Viewliner, it has never bothered me to leave my Superliner roomette and walk to either the middle of the car or downstairs to use the toilet. And I don't know if that is something I would want to do right in my "nesting area." Same for the shower, where I prefer one with some turning around room. Now a small sink in the Roomette I wouldn't mind.

 

[Marina]

And the most important thing - instead of showers in the Bedroom they would better put 4 people in the Bedroom

like in European trains.

Taking out the shower wouldn't give you any more room. You'd have to take out the shower, toilet, & sink to gain enough room for 2 more beds, and then just barely. Additionally, it would then prevent you from opening the connecting door to the next room to create a Bedroom Suite.

Bedroom room is the same size as the standard room for 4 people in Europe so remove shower with sink and 4 people will perfectly fit.

First, they would have more capacity and the Second - it would give more options for large groups of travelers.For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?

Only in Family Bedroom that is limited to Western trains only and moreover - there is only 1 (one!) Family Bedroom available in the Superliner car. On the Eastern trains we have no other options rather then buying 2 rooms.

Do you really think somebody will buy 2 rooms to split the family and pay huge cost? Of course, people will prefer to drive or to fly.

It would only be marginally cheaper, as Amtrak would simply charge you more for a 4 bedded room, just like they do know with a family room.

In fact, there are times that it's actually cheaper to book 2 roomettes over a family room.

Not really. 1 bedroom (not family bedroom!) is cheaper than 2 roommettes both in money and in AGR costs.

Plus I don't really want to split the family.

Family bedroom is so expensive because there is only 1 family bedroom on the train.

For Dec 24 Empire Builder

2 roommettes - $526

family room $1005

We will go with 2 roommettes, we have 2 boys, one will sleap with me, the other with my husband.

And i don't mind to separate them, will be less noise this way

 

[alanh]

The main issue with a 4 person room is that unless a party of 4 is going to book it, the room will be underutilized or empty. Unlike European trains, I don't see Amtrak mixing parties in a single room.

 

[spacecadet]

While I have yet to ride in a Viewliner, it has never bothered me to leave my Superliner roomette and walk to either the middle of the car or downstairs to use the toilet. And I don't know if that is something I would want to do right in my "nesting area."

Just having a toilet there is not as big a deal as you'd think. I wouldn't want a full size regular toilet right next to me either. But the ones in the Viewliners are small and very well disguised and they are "enclosed"; not with walls but it's like they're contained within what's basically a separate box built into the wall. You don't actually feel like you're sitting right next to a toilet unless you have the cover open.

It's just using it that's a problem if you have two people in the room.

 

[Railroad Bill]

We have ridden all the western trains with Superliners and the Crescent with the Viewliner sleepers. Even with the advantages mentioned regarding window on the upper bunk and the storage space for luggage above the aisle area, we both agreed that the toilet in the room is a negative.

With sometimes four bathrooms available on the Superliner sleepers, there has never been a time when we had to wait to use the facilities.

The shower is nice to have next to the bathrooms downstairs on the Superliners. The shower on the Viewliners is more convenient but a bit less private when people are marching by all the time passing between the cars.

In the case of the Crescent, if you are traveling from NOL to NYP as we were, I would hate to not have access to a shower. I agree that some of the shorter Eastern trains may not need shower facilities, but the Star trains and Crescent sure need them.

Overall, we look forward to riding in the new Viewliners without the toilets. Just will need to time those "quiet session breaks" a little better

 

[A.J.]

I have always found the Viewliner roommettes to be a lot noisier, which is not great when you're trying to sleep. I pretty much stopped taking the LSL to Chicago because of it. I don't want to start a cross-country trip with a lack of sleep and the crankiness that goes with it. Am I the only one who finds it noisier? Or is it that that route is a rougher ride?

 

[Gord]

I like having the toilet & sink in the room. I hate having to go downstairs every evening and again in the morning, just to get ready for either bed or the day. If they take those out of the viewliner roomettes, where are they going to put a restroom? Currently there aren't any public restrooms that I know of anywhere except 1 handicap one in the lounge car, if it's working. I don't want to have to go 3 cars down just to use the restroom.

And on the topic of viewliner vs superliner, I'd also like to mention that in addition to the window, the upper bunks in the viewliners also have more head room. You can actually sit up and read or work on your computer. Something you can't do in the superliners.

I agree, I prefer the Viewliner roomette, with toilet. Very convenient, especially when travelling alone. I don't like Superliner roomettes at all and neither does my wife. They remind me of the old upper and lower berths but with a sliding door instead of curtains.

Gord

 

[Big Iron]

The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.

That doesn't seem right, as the shower is an advertised feature of the sleeping car accommodations on trains that have them.

I do use the shower when I ride in Viewliners.

It happens because too many passenger can't follow the luggage rules and bring foot locker sized luggage on board, instead of checking it. With limited space, the attendant's don't have many choice, it's pretty much either the shower or the vestibule. Neither is an ideal choice.

However, anytime I've ever found luggage in the shower, I simply let the attendant know that I would like to take a shower and they move it temporarily. Typically they'll put it in their own room for the time being, something not exactly fair to them either, but again the choices are limited.

Now that all of the LD trains have baggage cars what would be the problems with the SCA "gate checking" extra luggage that will not fit in a room to the bag car after a pax has baorded? It seems to work with the airlines.

 

[me_little_me]

For example, we have a family of 4. How can we travel by train in a sleeper?

Only in Family Bedroom that is limited to Western trains only and moreover - there is only 1 (one!) Family Bedroom available in the Superliner car. On the Eastern trains we have no other options rather then buying 2 rooms.

In the olden days (the days of wooden trains and iron men), we took our two kids on overnight trips to Los Angeles from both Albuquerque and El Paso as well as from Albuquerque to Chicago.

She and I fit in the lower berth and the kids went in the upper. Yup! We could both fit - a little tight but we did it.

These days there is no way! Too much standing on subway trains made me a little short and a LOT wider.

 

[AlanB]

The three times I've ridden Viewliners the shower was always used by the SCA for additional storage.

That doesn't seem right, as the shower is an advertised feature of the sleeping car accommodations on trains that have them.

I do use the shower when I ride in Viewliners.

It happens because too many passenger can't follow the luggage rules and bring foot locker sized luggage on board, instead of checking it. With limited space, the attendant's don't have many choice, it's pretty much either the shower or the vestibule. Neither is an ideal choice.

However, anytime I've ever found luggage in the shower, I simply let the attendant know that I would like to take a shower and they move it temporarily. Typically they'll put it in their own room for the time being, something not exactly fair to them either, but again the choices are limited.

Now that all of the LD trains have baggage cars what would be the problems with the SCA "gate checking" extra luggage that will not fit in a room to the bag car after a pax has baorded? It seems to work with the airlines.

AFAIK, Amtrak has never offered that option. And on a Superliner equiped train, it's probably not necessary. I'm not sure why it's not an option for the single level trains, other than perhaps the need for having all the possible tags available and the idea of not wanting multiple people handling baggage in the car. That said, it is not uncommon for the attendant in the sleeper closest to the baggage car to just slip larger bags just inside the baggage car's door.

 

[BillyJo]

I just got back home today from a trip on the LSL and CZ from NY to San Francisco (trip report to follow in more detail - in short, it was GREAT).

We took roomettes the entire way, so I can give a comparison on the differences between the two types of rooms. There were four of us: my wife and I, plus my teenaged sister-in-law and wanna-be teen daughter. We managed to book rooms across from one another on both legs. This was the SIL's first long-distance trip, but the rest of us had been in roomettes before on the CL.

Before we left, and as we were booking the train, I was really worried about having the toilet in the room, since I thought it would stink and the room would be, um, messy. Overall, though, I think I enjoyed the viewliner more than the superliner for the reasons others mentioned:

-Window in the top bunk

-Room to move around when the beds were down

-Ability to sit up in the top bunk, and ease of getting to the top bunk

-That large cubby hole in the top to house larger bags.

The shower facilities were much better on the CZ, but I don't think there is a big demand for it on the LSL... I didn't really notice the noise being much different in either car, and I didn't notice the decour in the viewliner. Since it didn't make an impression, I don't think either was that bad.

As for the bathroom, it was nowhere near as bad as I expected. We generally just left the room while the other person was using it. The sink was nice, although the way the water came out made it so a lot of water ended up on the rim of the sink, which could cause a problem with draining. I started this trip thinking that superliner roomettes were vastly superior to the viewliners. Having ridden in both, I'd have to give a slight edge to the Viewliner, although I'm not sure how much I would have liked being in there for a trip as long as some of those Chicago-west coast hauls.