Virginia Service expansion

[Touchdowntom9]

Dumb question but what is the difference between buying Right of Way vs Track? Does ROW imply that there is no track currently there (it may have been removed etc) or is the difference something else?

 

[RebelRider]

Dumb question but what is the difference between buying Right of Way vs Track? Does ROW imply that there is no track currently there (it may have been removed etc) or is the difference something else?

I should think that regardless of track being there or not, buying the underlying property from the railroad significantly reduces that railroad's property tax bill. They like that sort of thing.

 

[Willbridge]

I should think that regardless of track being there or not, buying the underlying property from the railroad significantly reduces that railroad's property tax bill. They like that sort of thing.

Note that methods of taxing railways differ from state to state. Both Colorado and Oregon, just as examples that I'm familiar with, use the Centrally Assessed Utilities Method. If track is in place, it's a railway. If not, it's a real estate investment. It's usually less tax for a weedy line than for a real estate parcel.

I believe that this goes back to before the one man - one vote ruling. It has the effect of shifting valuations from urban areas to rural assessments. This makes both the railway and rural legislators happy.

 

[west point]

Clarification>> Virginia is buying the ROW just east of the west track to the property lines. That allows VA DOT to be able eventually have and own 2 main tracks from Franconia to Richmon Main Street. There are exceptions such as Alexandria and in Richmond.

From Washinfton 1st street tunnel to Franconia the Purchase is on west side. That will include the new Long Bridge west of present CSX 2 track long bridge. There willl be a flyover from the west side VA tracks to the east side. There will be at least a couple of CPs allowing emergency access from VA or CSX to the other RR.

How VA taxes the ROW is unknown but usually track and new signals are considered improvements. Now if it is the whole propery as your home or just the track ???

 

[jis]

Even the rail friendly executives are ignorant to the point of making wrong assumptions leading to wrong decisions.

I am watching this Webinar (11/1/22) on Virginia rail improvement D. J. Stadler just said with a straight face that he cannot electrify the passenger trackage south of Washington DC using catenary because there is no way to build catenary that would allow operation of double stacks under it. Clearly he has never traveled north of Washington and bothered to look out the window between Baltimore and Wilmington. Sigh.

There is a reason that passenger rail development under these government bureaucrats is totally screwed up.

 

[GDRRiley]

Even the rail friendly executives are ignorant to the point of making wrong assumptions leading to wrong decisions.

I am watching this Webinar (111/1/22) on Virginia rail improvement D. J. Stadler just said with a straight face that he cannot electrify the passenger trackage south of Washington DC using catenary because there is no way to build catenary that would allow operation of double stacks under it. Clearly he has never traveled north of Washington and bothered to look out the window between Baltimore and Wilmington. Sigh.

I'm so confused how thats even still an idea. Like we got photos of it with SEPTA trains next to double stack freights is that not enough to prove we can do so in this country

 

[jis]

I'm so confused how thats even still an idea. Like we got photos of it with SEPTA trains next to double stack freights is that not enough to prove we can do so in this country

As I said, sometimes the ignorance of the so called executives managing our passenger rail system can be quite astounding.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Even the rail friendly executives are ignorant to the point of making wrong assumptions leading to wrong decisions.

I am watching this Webinar (111/1/22) on Virginia rail improvement D. J. Stadler just said with a straight face that he cannot electrify the passenger trackage south of Washington DC using catenary because there is no way to build catenary that would allow operation of double stacks under it. Clearly he has never traveled north of Washington and bothered to look out the window between Baltimore and Wilmington. Sigh.

There is a reason that passenger rail development under these government bureaucrats is totally screwed up.

If we sent him to India to look at the double-stack electric freight I'm guessing his head would explode??

 

[jis]

If we sent him to India to look at the double-stack electric freight I'm guessing his head would explode??

Not to mention that Indian Railways is now over 90% electrified system-wide and 100% for trunk route main lines.

Stadler seems to thinks that he will just use more efficient diesel engines and call it a day. Talk about fossil

 

[Anderson]

Not to mention that Indian Railways is now over 90% electrified system-wide and 100% for trunk route main lines.

Stadler seems to thinks that he will just use more efficient diesel engines and call it a day. Talk about fossil

So, he's a fossil fool? [Add a French accent for added comedy...]

 

[Touchdowntom9]

Even the rail friendly executives are ignorant to the point of making wrong assumptions leading to wrong decisions.

I am watching this Webinar (11/1/22) on Virginia rail improvement D. J. Stadler just said with a straight face that he cannot electrify the passenger trackage south of Washington DC using catenary because there is no way to build catenary that would allow operation of double stacks under it. Clearly he has never traveled north of Washington and bothered to look out the window between Baltimore and Wilmington. Sigh.

There is a reason that passenger rail development under these government bureaucrats is totally screwed up.

Why would he care though? Not like he’s at risk of being fired no matter how badly he performs at his job…. Man it would be great to have competent leadership

 

[user 13416]

The Virginia routes (the NER routes originating/terminating in Roanoke, Newport News, Norfolk, and Richmond; not counting any LD routes) are seeing record ridership, with more than 87,000 passengers in January 2023. That's an increase of 160% over January 2022, and about 28% increase over pre-pandemic January 2020. So it's not just recovery, it's actual growth.

Virginia sees record train ridership as passenger rail expands

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

The extension of the Roanoke Northeast Regional to a new station in the New River Valley - serving Christiansburg, Blacksburg and Virginia Tech - currently served by Amtrak Thruway - has unexpectedly moved back to the Norfolk Southern mainline. The tunnel on the secondary track the state bought from NS has proved too troublesome. It's old and would require two very deep ventilation shafts in tricky rocks, and three fans, to meet fire safety standards for passenger rail. Or that's the story. The state is swapping back the track to NS for track in Manassas - hosting VRE and Amtrak.

The background involves the outsized political sway of rural areas, and the longstanding advocacy mentioned in the second article, because this is tied up with more talk about Bristol on the Tennessee border. One thing not mentioned in the articles below is what people here have mentioned, that the current track configuration and geography in Radford would have made an extension to Bristol from the secondary track considerably more difficult than using the mainline from Roanoke. The outsized rural sway is declining somewhat, but there is also the idea of "completing the map" from a state-centric point of view. There's an argument to be made for improving conditions in far Southwest Virginia, and for completing maps. Even in tourism, you have Abingdon and the Barter Theater, one of those regional theaters that signs up big city and future Hollywood talent for year long residencies, and has for a century or so. (The more recent recreated Shakespeare theater in Staunton, closer to Washington DC, is on a similar model, but you can't pay for your ticket with a chicken.) But there are also long-term economic arguments, along with the usual ones of highway safety and the environment. Rural areas, domestic or foreign, feed workers to denser areas. Also... the "crooked road" single track from the New River Valley to Bristol would mean a lot of state money going to NS.

On the other hand, Amtrak from Virginia Tech to Tech's Amazon-HQ2 partnership campus in Arlington is the epitome of what drives the tech economy, universities and whatever you call Amazon. Also in Northern Virginia, the track near Manassas is a chokepoint. The planned New River Valley station is described as "Cambria," but they mean, or should mean, the site Christiansburg already bought on a main road by a highway, across from the Aquatic Center, back when the mainline previously was the plan. The secondary line plan would have been closer to Virginia Tech.

https://vapassengerrailauthority.or...uthern-in-discussions-for-new-rail-agreement/
https://cardinalnews.org/2024/06/04...nding-passenger-rail-to-the-new-river-valley/

Another state-centric (!) note, Newport News Shipbuilding is set to grow from 26,000 to 30,000 workers, and plans to run a commuter bus to North Carolina. The skilled trades are in such demand that the Pensacola-Gulfport region runs advertising in Hampton Roads for workers. Meanwhile, the state-supported Virginia Breeze bus service (through Megabus) is adding an east-west route, Virginia Beach to Harrisonburg via Williamsburg and Richmond.

 

[west point]

Grew up in Bristol. For Roanoke - Bristol Amtrak service major track work will be needed to get a tighter time than 3:45. IMO what would be needed is 2 - 3 high speed (110 MPH) 10 - 13 miles long sidings so delays can be mitigated.

At Bristol the station is well kept. What would be needed is restoration of the SW leg of the WYE. So after discharging riders train can back up onto SW leg then proceed forward on NW leg to main track and then back into station or probably be tied up on the NW leg.

The 20h00 N&W departure Pelican used to have sleepers that went to NYP. At Roanoke sleepers also on another N&W train to Petersburgh then on ACL or SAL to Richmond and at one time one Roanoke to Norfolk. Pelican used the present LYH station where as the R9chmond / Norfolk used another station. The track layout from the LYH Kemper Street station is almost unavailable to take cars onto Norfolk / Richmond.

 

[west point]

Amtrak had another Virginia ridership record for April 2024. Total 118,474 just ~ 250 passengers short for increase of 10%. A rounding error that could have been lost to LD trains. Contrary 4 weekends in 2024 VS 5 in 2023. Richmond and Norfolk both increased ~ 13% over 2023. IMO the inability to add more trains to / from Washington might show even a higher increases. The question becomes are their enough seats on present trains or are some sold out?

https://vapassengerrailauthority.org/amtrak-virginia-rolls-into-summer-with-record-ridership/

 

[thefirewarde]

Besides the Long Bridge bottleneck, there's likely to be an Amfleet bottleneck for a couple of years. This will make it harder to expand any particular trainset if it's consistently selling out.

Also, congratulations to Virginia and the folks involved with this - it's an accomplishment.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Besides the Long Bridge bottleneck, there's likely to be an Amfleet bottleneck for a couple of years

Up north, the Downeaster is replacing amfleets with Horizon cars presumably bumped from the Midwest by the new Venture cars. This should free up some amfleets.

 

[railiner]

Just curious…does Amtrak California still use those converted NJT Comet/Arrow cars?
I believe there were 14 of them…

 

[Amtrak25]

Just curious…does Amtrak California still use those converted NJT Comet/Arrow cars?
I believe there were 14 of them…

A few weeks ago, someone said on Trainorders that they did just that because a Siemens set broke down. Only emergency food rations of course. The California Horizon dinette cars have long since been sitting in Beech Grove.

 

[thefirewarde]

Up north, the Downeaster is replacing amfleets with Horizon cars presumably bumped from the Midwest by the new Venture cars. This should free up some amfleets.

That may be absorbed by the aging Amfleet fleet and at best is one more coach on a couple of trains.

 

[Harmon Shay]

Amtrak California, or whoever's running that now, is still using the Comet cars, some for revenue service and some for axle count on bi-level trains. And I don't see how there can be more than three or four Horizon cars in the Downeaster pool now. I can't see how they can spare many more Horizon coaches for that and still start the New Orleans-Mobile service in October, unless I'm overestimating the number of Horizon coaches still in service in Chicago. With the two Borealis sets and now two Horizon Hiawatha set in the mix, plus extras and fill-in coaches for other Chicago-area routes, its got to be something like 20 Horizon coaches now in Chicago. And Seattle now has 28 Horizon coaches for the Cascades.

 

[Septa9739]

That would leave, if the restorations from Beech Grove materialize, I think, leave ample room to equip the Downeaster. I think there are somewhere around 79 extant Horizon coaches.

 

[Harmon Shay]

76 was the latest number I saw, but I've seen a couple of figures. You also have to figure that probably at least10% of them are going to be in the shop or standing protection at any given time. That's probably eight at least. Actually, there was a video of a Downeaster set going through the car wash the other day. It had an Amfleet club-dinette and four coaches, all Amfleet. I wonder if the Horizons are mostly there for protection and maybe weekend duty.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Happened to see this in a Twitter feed

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...fficially-to-acquire-norfolk-southern-routes/

WASHINGTON – Virginia and Charlotte, N.C., have notified federal regulators that they intend to acquire portions of Norfolk Southern main lines in order to expand passenger and commuter service.

In a filing with the Surface Transportation Board this week, the Virginia Passenger Rail Authority said its acquisition of the NS Manassas Line, as well as operating agreements covering trackage in southwest Virginia, should be exempt from board review.

Virginia will acquire the Manassas Line between milepost 10.76 and 32.75, as well as the adjacent Seminary Passage from milepost 9.25 to milepost 10.76. VPRA also will acquire a passenger rail operating easement on the lines between milepost 32.75 and milepost 33.6. The deal will permit more frequent Virginia Railway Express commuter service to and from Washington Union Station.

VPRA also will gain rights to add more Amtrak service between Alexandria, Va., and Roanoke, Va., which later will be extended to a new station in Radford, in the New River Valley.

 

[Goldspike_Railfanning]

Happened to see this in a Twitter feed

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...fficially-to-acquire-norfolk-southern-routes/

WASHINGTON – Virginia and Charlotte, N.C., have notified federal regulators that they intend to acquire portions of Norfolk Southern main lines in order to expand passenger and commuter service.

In a filing with the Surface Transportation Board this week, the Virginia Passenger Rail Authority said its acquisition of the NS Manassas Line, as well as operating agreements covering trackage in southwest Virginia, should be exempt from board review.

Virginia will acquire the Manassas Line between milepost 10.76 and 32.75, as well as the adjacent Seminary Passage from milepost 9.25 to milepost 10.76. VPRA also will acquire a passenger rail operating easement on the lines between milepost 32.75 and milepost 33.6. The deal will permit more frequent Virginia Railway Express commuter service to and from Washington Union Station.

VPRA also will gain rights to add more Amtrak service between Alexandria, Va., and Roanoke, Va., which later will be extended to a new station in Radford, in the New River Valley.

I’m glad these acquisitions are taking place. Virginia also grabbed some track from NS that the future Commonwealth Corridor would run along between Ashland and Charlottesville. I wonder if the new Newport News station will see further upgrades to store an additional train or trains and more features.