Washington DC Union Station redevelpment plans

[williamflemming]

I don't understand. Wouldn't it be more useful to make NY penn station tall enough to hold superliners :blink: ? I would like that more than Washington DC improvement for the HSR, though, a 200 mph ICE like rail network would be nice

 

[NY Penn]

There's also the problem that NY Penn has only high-level platforms, which the Superliner cannot use. And Penn Station will not give up its EXTREMELY limited capacity for a low-level platform.

 

[Ryan]

Not to mention there's a lot of stuff that would rip the top off of a Superliner all along the NEC.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

If I may get this back on topic...

Nice try! :lol:

...some of the DC preservation organizations are starting to weigh in on the plans for Union Station... ...They are in favor of the project...

Good news for the project.

According to numbers I saw elsewhere, Akridge is planning to build a $1.5 billion mixed use project, the Burnham Place... ...over the tracks. It would have... 1300 residential units...

:excl: With private sidings for one's PV? :wub:

 

[jis]

There's also the problem that NY Penn has only high-level platforms, which the Superliner cannot use. And Penn Station will not give up its EXTREMELY limited capacity for a low-level platform.

Not to mention that no track in Penn Station has clearance for a Superliner and getting such clearance will require tearing down stuff above the tracks and will possibly cost close to a billion in and of itself to make it completely Superliner compliant. That is not taking into account any tunnels leading in and out of Penn Station which will all have to be replaced too. you cannot expand a bored tunnel with concrete steel ring lining cheaply. And the return on that investment will be close to zero while other more important things will languish for lack of resources. It would eventually be a boondoggle of the Big Dig proportions with much less return on the investment

 

[afigg]

According to numbers I saw elsewhere, Akridge is planning to build a $1.5 billion mixed use project, the Burnham Place... ...over the tracks. It would have... 1300 residential units...

:excl: With private sidings for one's PV? :wub:

Given the challenges they reportedly have with enough room to store MARC and VRE trains during the day, might be difficult to find a siding to store your PV on. Well, unless you are rich enough to afford having a private sidings built for you. Maybe buy the Uline Arena, build a rail siding bridge across Delaware Ave, and use a rebuilt Uline building to store your PVs in! Well, I did say "rich enough". :lol:

If Akridge does build 1,300 residential units, then the dedicated railfan can move into one of residences, ideally one with a view to the north of the tracks leading to WAS. Then asked where he (or she) lives, he can say he lives on the NEC!

 

[williamflemming]

There's also the problem that NY Penn has only high-level platforms, which the Superliner cannot use. And Penn Station will not give up its EXTREMELY limited capacity for a low-level platform.

I always had the dream that the LSL would have super liner equipment . Well, they gave the superliner equipment to the most boring Chicago-East run IMHO. I which the cardinal had it more than The CL

 

[Ispolkom]

I always had the dream that the LSL would have super liner equipment

It takes all kinds. The only thing I like about the Lake Shore Limited is its Viewliner sleepers.

 

[Ryan]

There's also the problem that NY Penn has only high-level platforms, which the Superliner cannot use. And Penn Station will not give up its EXTREMELY limited capacity for a low-level platform.

I always had the dream that the LSL would have super liner equipment . Well, they gave the superliner equipment to the most boring Chicago-East run IMHO. I which the cardinal had it more than The CL

Superliners will never run on the NEC, so the Cardinal is out.

There are similar clearance problems on the approaching NYP from the north, so the LSL is out too.

They gave the Superliner equipment to the only train that it could physically run on.

 

[Anderson]

Honestly, I like the hotel plan a lot, if just because it offers a potential really close link between a train and a hotel room. In particular, this would be nice for connecting to a revived Montrealer and/or for dealing with missed connections.

 

[afigg]

Honestly, I like the hotel plan a lot, if just because it offers a potential really close link between a train and a hotel room. In particular, this would be nice for connecting to a revived Montrealer and/or for dealing with missed connections.

The planned hotel would be convenient for overnight stays at Union Station, but given the scale of the project and the prime location, it is likely to be a high end hotel. And high end hotels in DC can get seriously expensive. Not the type of hotel that Amtrak would put passengers with missed connections in overnight.

Looking for info on the Akridge plans, I looked up their Burnham Place at Union Station website. On the Project Vision page, there is a new 5:57 long Aerial Flythrough Video with renderings of the proposed station. Worth viewing because it shows the scale of the planned expansion and provides additional view angles.

 

[afigg]

It has been 2 years since there was much public news about the big plans for DC Union Station, although the studies and planning have continued.

The Washington Post has a lengthy and in-depth article from Steven Pearlman on the latest concepts, plans and potential economic impact for a major revamp of Union Station: Reimagining Union Station. The article has a neat clickable multi-layer diagram of the levels of the proposed revised Union Station.

Some excerpts:

According to urban legend, the opening of Verizon Center in 1997 was the catalyst for the revival of Washingtons old downtown. Ever since, a string of projects National Harbor, Nationals Park, the Silver Line have promised to change the face of the city or the region.

While such assessments involve more than a bit of hyperbole, one project that has received scant attention could well be the biggest game changer of all.

ABOVE: Union Station has separated adjoining neighborhoods for a century, even as new buildings rise around it. A plan to build over the tracks would knit the sides back together. (From left, images from Library of Congress, Pictometry, Aramark)

Im talking about the proposed expansion and redevelopment of Union Station, which could do for Washington what Grand Central Terminal did for New York a century ago create a new commercial epicenter for the city and provide the transportation anchor for a regional economy, stretching from Richmond to Baltimore. At $10 billion in public and private investment, it would represent the regions most important development initiative since the construction of Metros subway system.

Anyone who has passed through Union Station during rush hour knows that it is bursting at the seams, with 100,000 train, bus and subway passengers jostling for space most days with workers from nearby offices, shoppers and tourists from Dubuque.

With the era of exurban sprawl having run its course, people and jobs are moving back to more densely populated urban areas. Thats happening not just in Washington, but also in Boston, Austin, Seattle, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Miami. The only way these cities can accommodate such growth, and realize the economic efficiency that it will generate, is to dramatically improve their public transportation infrastructure and increase the density of land use around key public transportation nodes.

Right now we are only scratching the surface in terms of the economic potential of Union Station, said David Tuchmann, who is managing Akridges part of the project.

Too much space was given to retail and now it is very difficult to get it back.

For all its promise, the Union Station master plan has one serious design flaw.

Twenty-five years ago, Burnhams original station was saved from disuse and disrepair by a costly and painstaking restoration paid for largely by the federal government. Because train travel was out of fashion back then, much of the original station was turned into an indoor shopping mall.

Where there were once ticket booths and waiting halls and a broad passenger concourse, shops and restaurants were installed to help fund the renovation and provide a steady stream of income to operate and maintain the facility. Train passengers were relegated to a cramped new passenger concourse, seemingly modeled after a Greyhound bus station, that was tacked onto the rear of Burnhams masterpiece, alongside an unsightly new parking garage.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I know Union Station was in sad shape before " The Mall" was installed, but hopefully this will allow it to once again better utilize the Station for Rail purposes whether Amtrak, VRE, MARC or the Metro!

 

[jis]

And it will bring in considerable income from leases of air rights and real estate. That is the reason that the remaining air rights over Penn Station is being developed too. There is also talk of developing some of the air rights over Sunnyside.

 

[user 1215]

That's 9,000 millions.

Wow.

 

[Railroad Bill]

Wow! I am impressed. But will any of us over 60 live long enough to see this happen.?

 

[afigg]

News update on the plans for a major update to DC Union Station. Washington Post: Grand Central Terminal architect selected for Union Station expansion. Started this thread almost 3 years ago, but the plans are slowly chugging along.

Excerpts:

The architectural firm behind the remake of New York’s Grand Central Terminal will lead the effort to plan a $10 billion proposed expansion of Union Station, a project that could triple passenger capacity at the station.

Beyer Blinder Belle, with offices in New York and Washington, oversaw design, master planning and the revitalization of Grand Central, turning the 1913 Beaux Arts-style train station into a more modern, accessible and efficient rail hub. The firm has done similar work rehabilitating historic buildings in Washington including for Smithsonian museums.

....

At Union Station, the company will team with Grimshaw Architects to plan a massive expansion of rail and passenger capacity at Union Station that will allow the project to qualify for federal funds in future years. Grimshaw is a specialist in train station design, having worked on the Fulton Center in New York, Amsterdam’s Bijlmer Station and London’s Waterloo rail station.

The companies were chosen by the Union Station Redevelopment Corp., which manages Union Station, along with Amtrak and Akridge, a real estate firm planning 3 million square feet of development above the tracks behind the station.

Because Union Station is listed in the National Register of Historic Places and overseen by a bevy of federal and local government bodies, any changes to it require many layers of approvals.

The approval process is probably going to make a snail look like Usain Bolt.

 

[neroden]

FWIW, I was in DC Union recently, and although a lot of the retail space was in use, a fair amount of the retail space is vacant, unrented. It should be possible to get *some* of it back without much difficulty.

 

[dlagrua]

Union Station in WAS seems perfectly acceptable and working well for its intended use. I don't see the logic in putting $7 billion into improvements when Amtrak needs so many other things.... superliner sleepers, diners, coaches, additional motive power, upgraded coffee machines and new routes.

 

[Ryan]

You've obviously never been there during rush hour.

 

[StriderGDM]

You've obviously never been there during rush hour.

I have been. Many times. Still not 100% sure convinced this is the best use of Amtrak money.

However, as a matter of DC/Fed Money in addition to Amtrak, perhaps. It's the gateway to the Capitol, it's only going to get busier. Let's plan for the 21st century.

(and include a new northern path Blue Line.)

 

[afigg]

Union Station in WAS seems perfectly acceptable and working well for its intended use. I don't see the logic in putting $7 billion into improvements when Amtrak needs so many other things.... superliner sleepers, diners, coaches, additional motive power, upgraded coffee machines and new routes.

The price tag is now $8.5 billion in the New York Times article posted today on the plans for the station: Union Station in Washington Has a Grand Development Plan.

Keep in mind that the upgrades for the station itself are only a modest part of the $7 or $8.5 billion cost estimate. Much of the total cost is for the big private development project for 1,300 residential units, a 500 room hotel, retail and office space to be built in the air rights over the tracks. The developers will be funding that part. Another major piece are the underground parking garages, much of which can be funded by bonds to be paid off by parking revenue. Amtrak does not own DC Union Station, the federal government does. So Amtrak's part concerns only the passenger boarding areas, the new platforms, and tracks (which it does own). Very little of the funds that will be spent on upgrading Union Station would otherwise be available for non-NEC services or trains.

 

[me_little_me]

I hope the development includes hot meals for Silver Star sleeper passengers to buy. :giggle:

 

[afigg]

After a period of no public news that I'm aware of, came across a fact sheet on the NEC Amtrak website about the expansion of the concourse space at WAS.; WASHINGTON UNION STATION CONCOURSE EXPANSION PROGRAM FACT SHEET (webpage with link to 2 page PDF).

According to the fact sheet, construction will start this fall by first relocating mechanical equipment and other facilities, then in the summer of 2016, construction will start on expanding the concourse. Projected completion date is 2019. This work appears to just on rebuilding and expanding the concourse space to provide more space for the passengers waiting to board their trains. So it mainly just a remodeling of the concourse area which is likely not that costly. The rest of the Master Plan is another matter.

Excerpts from the fact sheet:

Increased Passenger Capacity
Significant concourse area will be gained as approximately 40,000 square feet of underutilized and currently isolated portions of the concourse are absorbed by demolishing dividing walls. In addition, select Amtrak support services which are currently dispersed throughout the concourse will be relocated to more strategic areas in the station, resulting in a vastly more unified concourse. Support services that will be relocated in 2015/2016 include police services, management offices, employee gym, and east/west mechanical rooms. As design advances, consideration for the relocation or expansion of Club Acela and passenger restrooms will be considered.

....

A New Passenger Experience

With nearly double the passenger capacity comes the opportunity to upgrade amenities that will decidedly improve the passenger experience. Among other new amenities, new seating options will be available to travelers as they wait for their connections. Further, intercity and commuter boarding gates will be realigned for more efficient boarding operations. When passengers enter the station from the tracks and platforms, they will be greeted by a new light-filled entrance in contrast to the current stark wall. Other amenities to be considered include the reconfiguration and upgrade of ticketing and baggage operations.

 

[Bob Dylan]

This is good news, but the 2019 Completion date is optimistic! I wouldn't bet the house on it being completed on time or budget!

And how are the repairs coming along from the earthquake that damaged the Washington Monument and Union Station?

I've always thought that it was too much like a Mall, and had lots of wasted space not used for passenger service that perhaps the remodel will remedy if the announced plans are correct!