Watchdog report faults TSA on Amtrak security

[jebr]

The focus on reporting weapons not found is another good example. I don't know but I suspect concealable weapons, per se, are not the main focus of TSA screening. My guess is explosives are.

Why would explosives be the main focus when the TSA was created to help prevent another 9/11? Explosives don't really help hijack a plane, either. They'll just blow up the plane, wherever it happens to be.

If they're not catching weapons, they're not stopping another 9/11.

 

[JoeBas]

Nice Strawman there. TSA, or no security at all?

Did we have security screening, or whatever you want to call it, of any kind before TSA? Not saying we didn't, but I don't remember it,

Yes, we did. And 9/11© was NOT a "Screening Failure", in fact the "weapons" the hijackers used were permitted at the time.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Nice Strawman there. TSA, or no security at all?

Did we have security screening, or whatever you want to call it, of any kind before TSA? Not saying we didn't, but I don't remember it,

Yes, we had security screening before 9/11. As I recall it pretty much was just putting our bags/purses on a conveyor belt to be scanned. At Phila, these were located at the entrance of each terminal.

 

[JoeBas]

The focus on reporting weapons not found is another good example. I don't know but I suspect concealable weapons, per se, are not the main focus of TSA screening. My guess is explosives are.

Why would explosives be the main focus when the TSA was created to help prevent another 9/11? Explosives don't really help hijack a plane, either. They'll just blow up the plane, wherever it happens to be.

If they're not catching weapons, they're not stopping another 9/11.

There's one simple thing that will make sure we'll NEVER have another 9/11, and it has nothing to do with the TSA.

If someone EVER stands up and tries to hijack a heavy with a boxcutter again, life will quickly become disagreeable and short for that individual, as the flight turns to 150+ against ~3?...

The threat vector was closed before the sun set on 9/11©, thanks to the courageous individuals on UA93.

 

[CCC1007]

Nice Strawman there. TSA, or no security at all?

Did we have security screening, or whatever you want to call it, of any kind before TSA? Not saying we didn't, but I don't remember it,

Yes, we had security screening before 9/11. As I recall it pretty much was just putting our bags/purses on a conveyor belt to be scanned. At Phila, these were located at the entrance of each terminal.

I remember greeting grandma right off the plane at sky harbor airport in Phoenix. No we didn't fly that day, and this was in 2001.
I also remember watching planes from the gate from 1998 to 2001, at different airports, usually in Montana.

 

[JoeBas]

Nice Strawman there. TSA, or no security at all?

Did we have security screening, or whatever you want to call it, of any kind before TSA? Not saying we didn't, but I don't remember it,

Yes, we had security screening before 9/11. As I recall it pretty much was just putting our bags/purses on a conveyor belt to be scanned. At Phila, these were located at the entrance of each terminal.

Pre 9/11 security consisted of Walk Through Metal Detection (WTMD), bag X-Ray and Wanding for resolution. There was no

• Restriction on access to the secure area
• War on shoes
• War on Water
• War on Shampoo
• Rifling of papers, medication and belongings
• Pervert Boxes
• Barking Authoritah Idiots to explain all the above, and why their checkpoint is "different" and the only RIGHT way to do it.

We could go back to that, with random Explosive Trace Detection swabs of bags, TOMORROW, if we had the will.

 

[jis]

Yeah, I remember I used to go into the secure area of the Pan Am Worldport at JFK from time to time to pick up people. Though my favorite was the rooftop parking lot for plane watching.

The odd thing is that there was no real security checkpoint lapse on 9/11 causing what happened to happen. Things that were carried through were all legal to carry on board back then. And yet in our panic we went and (un)fixed that non problem anyway.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Nice Strawman there. TSA, or no security at all?

Did we have security screening, or whatever you want to call it, of any kind before TSA? Not saying we didn't, but I don't remember it,

Yes, we had security screening before 9/11. As I recall it pretty much was just putting our bags/purses on a conveyor belt to be scanned. At Phila, these were located at the entrance of each terminal.

I remember greeting grandma right off the plane at sky harbor airport in Phoenix. No we didn't fly that day, and this was in 2001. I also remember watching planes from the gate from 1998 to 2001, at different airports, usually in Montana.

It's not clear what you're trying to get at? You didn't need to have a ticket or boarding pass but you did have to be screened through security. Been that way since the 1970's.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'll agree with the need to concentrate on Explosives!

Now that the cockpits are " hardened" and the pilots are armed, no invasion of the cockpit is possible.

As for threatening the Flight Crew with weapons, the 150 or more Vs. 1-3 scenario is a lock if some religious fanatic(s) decide that this is the quick way to paradise!

Let's roll!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Those too young to remember the Hi- Jacking mania in the 70s don't realize that the "screening" by the Rent-a-Security Keystone Kops was a joke just like today's TSA Security Theater!

 

[jis]

But at least they managed to keep the insurance fraudsters trying to do weird things at bay. Frankly, hijacking by classic terrorists was not a problem that had quite caught the attention that it deserved on the shores of the US. It was viewed mostly as a problem of the less civilized Eurasian world. All those that were later characterized as terrorist once they came and chewed off the butt of the US, were back then romantically called freedom fighters in the US. h34r: A mild example being IRA were a bunch of heroes and funded from here never mind they were blowing random bombs in the UK. A more insidious one, the Taliban, a creature of US funded project. 9/11 helped the US understand what the real world is like, and then we went into an unmitigated panic and screwed up a great opportunity to provide some true principled leadership, and instead like Don Quixote charged off at random windmills and made it worse. OK off of my "rant box" now.

 

[HighBall]

TSA is just theater designed to harass and control the citizenry...

Reminds me of a quote by journalist H L Mencken (1880-1956)

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins,

most of them imaginary.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent summary about Hi-jackers Jishnu.

I was on two flights that were diverted to Havana when Cuba was "THE place to go" for our Domestic Terrorists. ( mostly Criminals and self appointed "Movement" Leaders!

We used to joke every time we took off and flew over water, whether the Atlantic, Caribean or Gulf, about getting a Free trip to Havana.

Seriously, I've been in some Really Scarey, Dangerous places in my life, and Airport paranoia is not topping my list even though I seldom fly anymore like I used too back in the day when I was a Million Mile+ Freuqent Flyer. !

 

[JoeBas]

Those too young to remember the Hi- Jacking mania in the 70s don't realize that the "screening" by the Rent-a-Security Keystone Kops was a joke just like today's TSA Security Theater!

Untrue. In the '70's, in fact right up until around 11AM on 9/11/01, it was policy to cooperate with hijackers. And policy let you carry through anything up to and including something Crocodile Dundee would carry as a result. But whether they had anything or not, was immaterial - someone could stick their finger in their coat pocket, say they had a gun, and everyone was getting an all-expenses-paid trip to Cuba, by policy.

 

[jis]

Indeed some very useful and significant regulation changes took place including the protocol for handling hijack attempts, cockpit door strengthening and protocol for opening cockpit doors, restrictions on the size and type of knives that could be taken on board etc. But it is not clear that all of those could not have been implemented without creating this strange creature called the TSA.

Actually I would argue that consolidating customs, immigration and boarder protection in a single department was a good thing too, having had to deal with INS and Customs which were in different Departments used to be a nightmare.

back in the days trying to figure out which Department was currently holding your I-94 which you sent in for extension used to be an exercise in shadow boxing, and invariably all of them finally ended up in St. Albans border post, to never see daylight again apparently. At least three of my I-94s were misplaced by St. Albans so Washington DC had to reissue them. All this started happening after Reagan decided to make INS more efficient by cutting their budget. Eventually they completely lost track of everyone once they exited the airport entry checkpost, and now we wonder why there are so many overstay illegals. It is one of the things that was bequeathed to the nation by Saint Reagan, and his sidekick Stockman.

 

[MARC Rider]

Nice Strawman there. TSA, or no security at all?

Did we have security screening, or whatever you want to call it, of any kind before TSA? Not saying we didn't, but I don't remember it,

We've had security screening since the 1970s, I believe the final straw was the DB Cooper affair. It was mainly metal detector to weed out guns and knives. You didn't have to have a boarding pass to pass through. My wife and daughter used to come to the gate to see me off on business trips. And also be at the gate when I came home.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yep, the Immigration mess that our politicians are demagoguing to death to scare the yahoo's can be traced back to the Beloved and Senile St.Ronnie of California.

He actually negotiated with the Democrats and then signed an Immigration Reform Bill that would ensure that he couldn't get the Republican Nomination for President today!

Ironically you really do reap what you sow and the chickens come home to roost!

 

[StriderGDM]

Would you board a plane this day and age and ascend to 30K feet where anyone and everyone could just walk up and get on? I wouldn't.

Absolutely. Since pretty much every terrorist attempt has either been foiled by the passengers, or succeeded. At least in the US where we're seeing a 97% failure rate in penetration testing, I don't trust the TSA.

 

[tonys96]

Billions that should have paid for much needed Infrastructure! Flint, Michigan anyone?)

Strawman, Bob! :help: Sounds like you're assuming those were billions we actually had and could have reallocated rather than billions we borrowed from someone else. No guarantee that we would have borrowed that amount for anything else.

Not really borrowed, per se. The fees charged airline pax that are SUPPOSED to go to the TSA were diverted by congress to make the deficit look lower than it really is, in a typical smoke and mirror fashion:

WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Airlines for America (A4A), the industry trade organization for the leading U.S. airlines, today called on Congress to return $13 billion in Transportation Security Administration (TSA) fees that have been diverted since 2013 to offset the deficit and use those resources to pay for security screening as intended. A4A also called on the TSA to take actions to improve airport wait times, in addition to the work its members already have underway, and responded to calls to adjust airline pricing.

“If Congress wanted to take constructive and well-justified action, it would immediately pass legislation putting that money, paid by airline passengers, where it belongs.”
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...rica-Calls-Congress-Return-Billions-Diverted#Tweet this
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...rica-Calls-Congress-Return-Billions-Diverted#
In a letter to Sen. **** Durbin (D-IL), A4A President and CEO Nicholas E. Calio noted that pursuant to the Bipartisan Budget Act (BBA) of 2013, Congress diverted $13 billion of passenger 9/11 fee revenue over 10 years to pay for deficit reduction.

“That decision has come home to roost,” Calio said. “If Congress wanted to take constructive and well-justified action, it would immediately pass legislation putting that money, paid by airline passengers, where it belongs.”

 

[tonys96]

Those too young to remember the Hi- Jacking mania in the 70s don't realize that the "screening" by the Rent-a-Security Keystone Kops was a joke just like today's TSA Security Theater!

Untrue. In the '70's, in fact right up until around 11AM on 9/11/01, it was policy to cooperate with hijackers. And policy let you carry through anything up to and including something Crocodile Dundee would carry as a result. But whether they had anything or not, was immaterial - someone could stick their finger in their coat pocket, say they had a gun, and everyone was getting an all-expenses-paid trip to Cuba, by policy.

Untrue. I know for fact, personal experience, you could NOT carry a folding knife over so many (whatever it was) inches blade length. I had to sacrifice a great 3 inch Buck due to that rule back in the late 70's

 

[KmH]

. . . 9/11 helped the US understand what the real world is like, and then we went into an unmitigated panic and screwed up a great opportunity to provide some true principled leadership. . .

Well said.

Of course the leadership at that time had no principles.

 

[KmH]

TSA undercover tests have people pose as normal passengers and try to sneak both fake explosives and banned weapons through security.

 

[Paul Dow]

The TSA just canned the Head of TSA, Security ( aka " The Fall Guy") after the IG revealed that he had been given a $90,000 Bonus based on cooked books.

Not quite. We're dealing with the government, where you can't be fired for anything. He was just removed from his position. He's still being paid by us, and probably for doing nothing now. (Not that he was doing anything before.)

 

[NW cannonball]

The TSA just canned the Head of TSA, Security ( aka " The Fall Guy") after the IG revealed that he had been given a $90,000 Bonus based on cooked books.

Not quite. We're dealing with the government, where you can't be fired for anything. He was just removed from his position. He's still being paid by us, and probably for doing nothing now. (Not that he was doing anything before.)

It's not just the "government" where total losers get to keep their "positions" until they get caught -- o no --

What I like is the occasional NAVY "lost confidence in "blah-blah losers ability to command" and the former officer has a few years in Kansas

Sometimes I've fought local "city hall" when the ripoff scamsters eventually lose.

When the incompetent TSA gets funding cut-- I give no estimate -- these "scare the people and create another politically dependent class" he he

 

[chakk]

I remember flying in days before there was any screening of passengers. As well as flights on 707s with no enclosed overhead luggage compartments -- just open shelves like on Antrak coaches.

Watch the movie "Bullit" to view air flying from airports like SFO in the days before Security.