What happened to the Boston branch of the LSL?

[June the Coach Rider]

I noticed that this weekend the 448 & 449 have been cancelled. There is no service announcement on Amtrak.com. Anyone have any idea why?

 

[berkyo]

I have been looking at the tracker and see that it is grayed out. . We are taking the LSL 449 tonight to CHI guess i should check on that.

 

[J-1 3235]

I had reservations for tonight out of CHI. Amtrak called to advise me I would be bussed from ALB to BOS. After looking at the schedule, I believe four or five days are being bustituted. Guessing that CSX has some trackwork planned.

Mike

 

[berkyo]

I just called Amtrak. The Boston part of the train, 449, is canceled due to track repairs. But the rest of the LSL is running. So I guess it is ok. We have coach From ROC to TOL (on 449) and the Roomette all the way to LAmy. AMtrak agent said they will make sure that we will get on the train. As after a certain point, it is all 448 Just depends on where you got on the train. Hope he is right as we have a 2 hour ride to get to ROC.

 

[J-1 3235]

I just called Amtrak. The Boston part of the train, 449, is canceled due to track repairs. But the rest of the LSL is running. So I guess it is ok. We have coach From ROC to TOL (on 449) and the Roomette all the way to LAmy. AMtrak agent said they will make sure that we will get on the train. As after a certain point, it is all 448 Just depends on where you got on the train. Hope he is right as we have a 2 hour ride to get to ROC.

Berkyo, You'll have a great trip. I believe they'll just run the complete train to and from NYP. Anyone using a Massachusetts station will be bussed to ALB, then board the train. And vice-versa. Boarding in Rochester, you won't notice anything different

Enjoy your trip to Lamy!

 

[June the Coach Rider]

Actually after Albany or before Albany, depending on which way you are heading, it is all 48/49. 449/448 are the Boston Branch that is combined for the rest of the trip to Chicago.

 

[berkyo]

Thanks! Looking forward to it. And all packed too!

 

[oregon pioneer]

I've taken 448/9 several times over the years, and I believe that the difference is in which car you board. If in 448/9, you will be at the back of the train, behind the lounge car (which goes with the BOS section), and have to walk through all the 48/9 coaches to get to the dining car located between 48/9 coaches and the NYP sleepers. So that means, if the ALB-BOS section is bustituted, the 448/9 section of the train is probably dropped off in ALB as usual, stays there instead of going to BOS, and is reconnected in ALB when the train comes back from NYP. So, if you are booked for 448/9 anywhere between ALB and CHI, that merely designates the car you are going to board (but it's all the same train).

I don't know what the 448/9 staff does in a bustitution, since they are supposed to spend the night in BOS before returning. I wonder, do they go with the bus? You'd think I'd remember, it happened to me once, a long time ago!

 

[JeffW]

I've taken 448/9 several times over the years, and I believe that the difference is in which car you board. If in 448/9, you will be at the back of the train, behind the lounge car (which goes with the BOS section), and have to walk through all the 48/9 coaches to get to the dining car located between 48/9 coaches and the NYP sleepers. So that means, if the ALB-BOS section is bustituted, the 448/9 section of the train is probably dropped off in ALB as usual, stays there instead of going to BOS, and is reconnected in ALB when the train comes back from NYP. So, if you are booked for 448/9 anywhere between ALB and CHI, that merely designates the car you are going to board (but it's all the same train).

I don't know what the 448/9 staff does in a bustitution, since they are supposed to spend the night in BOS before returning. I wonder, do they go with the bus? You'd think I'd remember, it happened to me once, a long time ago!

This is partially true. No matter the direction, you board the train depending on your destination. If you are headed East, you need to be in a certain part of the train if you're headed past Albany (so you don't end up in NYC when you wanted Boston). Headed west, after Albany, they don't really care what the number is (449/49)--instead, they want you to sit alongside people with a similar destination.

I've taken the train ROC to EKH many times, and have experimented with different numbers 449 or 49... No difference for me.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If you're riding the bustitute, could please tell me what bus it is after riding it? I'm not trying to threadjack, I'm just curious to know what buses Amtrak charters in that part of the country.

Thanks.

 

[jebr]

If you're riding the bustitute, could please tell me what bus it is after riding it? I'm not trying to threadjack, I'm just curious to know what buses Amtrak charters in that part of the country.

Thanks.

Amtrak likely doesn't own the busses. They just hire a charter company, so it will depend on them. There is likely no rhyme or reason to what bus they use.

 

[Ryan]

Yep. Whatever is available. School busses even sometimes if that's all there is.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If you're riding the bustitute, could please tell me what bus it is after riding it? I'm not trying to threadjack, I'm just curious to know what buses Amtrak charters in that part of the country.

Thanks.

Amtrak likely doesn't own the busses. They just hire a charter company, so it will depend on them. There is likely no rhyme or reason to what bus they use.

I just wanna see, just for fun you know. I'm not visiting the Northeast soon anyway, as I said, I'm just curious. Not trying to turn another train thread into a bus thread.

 

[battalion51]

I've taken 448/9 several times over the years, and I believe that the difference is in which car you board. If in 448/9, you will be at the back of the train, behind the lounge car (which goes with the BOS section), and have to walk through all the 48/9 coaches to get to the dining car located between 48/9 coaches and the NYP sleepers. So that means, if the ALB-BOS section is bustituted, the 448/9 section of the train is probably dropped off in ALB as usual, stays there instead of going to BOS, and is reconnected in ALB when the train comes back from NYP. So, if you are booked for 448/9 anywhere between ALB and CHI, that merely designates the car you are going to board (but it's all the same train).

I don't know what the 448/9 staff does in a bustitution, since they are supposed to spend the night in BOS before returning. I wonder, do they go with the bus? You'd think I'd remember, it happened to me once, a long time ago!

In recent years the Boston section has been on the head end with the New York section on the rear. It simplifies the number of moves needed to combine/split the train. When going east they can cut off the Boston section, attach a back-up hose, do a brake test and be on their way. Then the New York section can have its dual mode tie on, do a brake test and be on their way. When going west 448 can arrive on one track, 48 arrives, cuts the dual mode, 448 swings over to tie on, back-up hose added to the rear, brake test and the train is ok to go.

This is a large part of the reason why the Crescent and Silver Service consists get turned around in the winter. When they need to rotate the LSL sets through to a southern train the only moves that have to be made are an engine change and cutting out the cafe car. Making two moves is a lot simpler for the Sunnyside crew than making five moves per set.

 

[SubwayNut]

So the full Boston and New York sections combined don't make it down the Hudson to NYP during the Boston half busitution?

(Trying to decide if I'm going to stalk the Lake Shore tomorrow. I will if its the full trainset, won't if its the normal 48 only trainset, I have tons of photos of it already)

 

[AlanB]

I've taken 448/9 several times over the years, and I believe that the difference is in which car you board. If in 448/9, you will be at the back of the train, behind the lounge car (which goes with the BOS section), and have to walk through all the 48/9 coaches to get to the dining car located between 48/9 coaches and the NYP sleepers. So that means, if the ALB-BOS section is bustituted, the 448/9 section of the train is probably dropped off in ALB as usual, stays there instead of going to BOS, and is reconnected in ALB when the train comes back from NYP. So, if you are booked for 448/9 anywhere between ALB and CHI, that merely designates the car you are going to board (but it's all the same train).

I don't know what the 448/9 staff does in a bustitution, since they are supposed to spend the night in BOS before returning. I wonder, do they go with the bus? You'd think I'd remember, it happened to me once, a long time ago!

In recent years the Boston section has been on the head end with the New York section on the rear. It simplifies the number of moves needed to combine/split the train. When going east they can cut off the Boston section, attach a back-up hose, do a brake test and be on their way. Then the New York section can have its dual mode tie on, do a brake test and be on their way. When going west 448 can arrive on one track, 48 arrives, cuts the dual mode, 448 swings over to tie on, back-up hose added to the rear, brake test and the train is ok to go.
This is a large part of the reason why the Crescent and Silver Service consists get turned around in the winter. When they need to rotate the LSL sets through to a southern train the only moves that have to be made are an engine change and cutting out the cafe car. Making two moves is a lot simpler for the Sunnyside crew than making five moves per set.

The perfect description of what happens! But you did leave out one very important step. Refuel the 2 - P42's.

 

[AlanB]

So the full Boston and New York sections combined don't make it down the Hudson to NYP during the Boston half busitution?

(Trying to decide if I'm going to stalk the Lake Shore tomorrow. I will if its the full trainset, won't if its the normal 48 only trainset, I have tons of photos of it already)

Generally they leave the Boston cars in ALB, simply because the train is too long otherwise for the NYP platforms. Only the center most tracks at NYP can handle a train that long, and the train cannot reach those tracks coming from ALB. The highest track number it can reach is 8 based upon the switches; and they'd need to get over to 11 or 12 to have any hope of fitting on just 1 track and not blocking the interlocking plant.

 

[June the Coach Rider]

They would leave the 448 cars in Albany, as no one would be booked in them past Albany, they would not carry several empty cars just to bring them back to Albany empty.

 

[SubwayNut]

Thanks, that all makes sense now, I won't bother to find the Lake Shore this late afternoon. I was thinking about the time between 2003 and 2008 when Boston passengers had to do the cross-platform transfer in Albany and the entire Lake Shore consist was taken down the Hudson. I guess back then since the train only had 4 instead of 6 coaches and just 1 instead of 2 Baggage Cars, a total of 10 cars instead of 13 of the normal combined consist today this didn't cause platforming issues with Penn?

I was glancing through old photos and found some pictures I took of then the full Lake Shore Consist going through Glenwood along the Hudson Line in July 2008 with a total of 12 cars because of two PV on the back, all pulled by a single P32AC-DM. That train must have gummed up the works in Penn Station

 

[AlanB]

They would leave the 448 cars in Albany, as no one would be booked in them past Albany, they would not carry several empty cars just to bring them back to Albany empty.

June,

Actually, Amtrak would prefer to haul those empty cars south, since they have the facilities & people in Sunnyside to handle those cars. Albany is actually not equipped to handle the sleepers and there is no commissary in Albany to restock the cafe car. So it adds considerable expense for Amtrak to leave the Boston section in ALB. But again, because of the length of the train, they usually have no choice. There only other option would be to separate the Boston section like normal and just deadhead it down to NYP on its own. But at that point, I think it becomes easier to leave it in ALB and truck in food and linens and bus the service staff as needed.

 

[June the Coach Rider]

I never thought about needing to re-stock, etc. But I agree that bringing in the stuff rather than having the train jam up NYP would be the better answer. Hopefully it won't be for too long and all this will be for mute.

 

[oregon pioneer]

In recent years the Boston section has been on the head end with the New York section on the rear. It simplifies the number of moves needed to combine/split the train. When going east they can cut off the Boston section, attach a back-up hose, do a brake test and be on their way. Then the New York section can have its dual mode tie on, do a brake test and be on their way. When going west 448 can arrive on one track, 48 arrives, cuts the dual mode, 448 swings over to tie on, back-up hose added to the rear, brake test and the train is ok to go.

You're right, I just checked my trip report from last December, and that's the way it was.

 

[SubwayNut]

I ended up going up to Ardsley-on-Hudson for some photos this afternoon anyway (Metro-North up home for just a MetroCard swipe on the bus to the subway) and got northbound #49, as AU of course informed me it was the normal consist of just #49:

But wait this was on the back, Private Varnish: New York Central #43 and Hickery Creek, a 20th Century Limited Bullet Lounge!

I was still extremely happy I went up the Hudson this afternoon, even though it wasn't the long combined 49/449 consist.

I walked down to Dobbs Ferry afterwards and waited around for #48 running on time in the sunset but got boxed in by two local trains and got no photos as it zoomed by.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Nice long train! I saw three PVs hooked up to the back of the CZ when I was visitng Emeryville. I like how these PVs here are also authentic to their original railroad.

 

[SubwayNut]

That was my thought too although they look a bit out of place with a baggage car between them and the rest of the train!