what happened tp the Empire builder

[Larry H.]

I am still puzzled why Amtrak, knowing that many elderly passengers have both cholesterol and diabetic issues make not even the slightest attempt to provide some choices that would fit that population, which no doubt is the biggest users of the dinner or sleeping cars. You can get sugar free syrup in any restaurant now days as well as a choice of whole grain, (not just wheat colored) breads to help keep carbs lowered. A sugar free desert, even if it was only jello or instant sugar free pudding would be welcome. There is almost a complete lack of consideration for the passengers in the menus when it comes to health. Gee I thought that was the new push, eating healthy to keep health care cost down, maybe I should write the white house?

 

[Ryan]

What was Amtrak's reply when you've complained to them about these issues?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

2. We liked the complementary splits of champagne that were provided as we left Chicago! We didn't get this on the Zephyr either.....
QUESTION??? Why don't long hauls ~ 2 days or more ~ have identical perks for sleeping car passengers??

3. The temperatures on the train were quite comfortable in spite of the very cold weather we encountered along the route.

Marketing.

The Empire Builder and Coast Starlight have marketing directors who like to play to the elegance and err on the side of flamboyant when it comes to how their train is run. They're job is to see if they can fill a train and with superior service they often do. The Zephyr sells itself with it being the most scenic of all of the Western trains (debatable, yes). Ergo the Zephyr doesn't need cheap champagne splits to make people upgrade to the sleepers if the train as a whole is full.

Don't misread the above-- I'm all for all LD trains having similar service. I just don't think its worth the time, money, and effort until you can get another sleeper on the Zephyr. (The EB runs with three, as often does the CS, but the CZ usually only sports two.)

 

[JoanieBlon]

I am still puzzled why Amtrak, knowing that many elderly passengers have both cholesterol and diabetic issues make not even the slightest attempt to provide some choices that would fit that population, which no doubt is the biggest users of the dinner or sleeping cars. You can get sugar free syrup in any restaurant now days as well as a choice of whole grain, (not just wheat colored) breads to help keep carbs lowered. A sugar free desert, even if it was only jello or instant sugar free pudding would be welcome. There is almost a complete lack of consideration for the passengers in the menus when it comes to health. Gee I thought that was the new push, eating healthy to keep health care cost down, maybe I should write the white house?

It's NOT just the "ELDERLY" who need some correct choices! Unfortunately, Type B Diabetes is becoming more and more prevalent in teenagers these days.....and this was a condition that in years past normally didn't rear its ugly head until middle age or later. Too many kids and folks in general pigging out on sugar laden foods and drinks, as well as high carb snacks and pizzas. And...high cholesterol certainly isn't just found in the elderly. There are plenty of folks in their 30s and 40s with clogged arteries.
There was a very good selection of desserts offered on the Empire Builder ~ cheesecake with Oregon blueberry compote, chocolate peanut butter pie, apple pie with a crisp topping, sorbet, and vanilla and chocolate Hagen Daz ice cream ~ BUT...not one single sugar free dessert choice unless you wanted to make do with an orange. I felt bad for my husband, as well as others who must restrict their sugar/carb intake. :angry: Taking a train trip and having "special" meals and service in the dining car should include some "treats...." for everybody.

Amtrak has at least one selection available for vegetarians at each meal .....why not some healthy low/no sugar choices for diabetics as well? Both my husband and I do make an attempt to keep as healthy as possible by making good eating choices and exercising. So far, my husband has been able to control his diabetes with diet ~ but it's a little difficult when choices aren't offered ~ and when they close the kitchen down without adequate notice .... <_<

 

[amtrakwolverine]

amtrak does offer special foods but you have to call ahead of time and let them know.

 

[AlanB]

The Coast Starlight had for many years been sort of the cream of the crop in terms of long distance trains, in large part thanks to the Pacific Parlour Cars and an ambitious manager. Its service started to fall off, cuts happened, the cars were neglected and such. Around the time that started happening, David Gunn was the President of Amtrak. He saw an opportunity with the newly refurbished Superliner I sleeping cars to show everyone that cutting services isn't always the best way to save money. He picked the Empire Builder as the route to prove that. Not quite sure just what his reasons were, but nonetheless his vision has been proved.

Outside of the Auto Train, the EB has the best cost recovery of any long distance train with sleepers. The Palmetto does better than the EB, but it has no sleepers or a dining car. Unfortunately David Gunn didn't last for too long as President of Amtrak. Even as the Builder was continuing to excel, the Coast Starlight continued to falter and get worse, in part also because of UP failing to run the train on time.

Once Amtrak got UP back on the ball, they decided to start trying to bring the CS back up to its former glory. The PPC's were all given a major rebuilding making them far more reliable; the SDS idea was rolled back first on the CS and now on most trains. And once again it's starting to pay dividends from what I can see. Ridership on the CS is going back up. People are happier with that train in general.

Now we can only hope that management and Congress takes notice of what can happen if you pump just a bit of money back into things, instead of always cutting.

 

[rail_rider]

I am still puzzled why Amtrak, knowing that many elderly passengers have both cholesterol and diabetic issues make not even the slightest attempt to provide some choices that would fit that population, which no doubt is the biggest users of the dinner or sleeping cars. You can get sugar free syrup in any restaurant now days as well as a choice of whole grain, (not just wheat colored) breads to help keep carbs lowered. A sugar free desert, even if it was only jello or instant sugar free pudding would be welcome. There is almost a complete lack of consideration for the passengers in the menus when it comes to health. Gee I thought that was the new push, eating healthy to keep health care cost down, maybe I should write the white house?

It's NOT just the "ELDERLY" who need some correct choices! Unfortunately, Type B Diabetes is becoming more and more prevalent in teenagers these days.....and this was a condition that in years past normally didn't rear its ugly head until middle age or later. Too many kids and folks in general pigging out on sugar laden foods and drinks, as well as high carb snacks and pizzas. And...high cholesterol certainly isn't just found in the elderly. There are plenty of folks in their 30s and 40s with clogged arteries.
There was a very good selection of desserts offered on the Empire Builder ~ cheesecake with Oregon blueberry compote, chocolate peanut butter pie, apple pie with a crisp topping, sorbet, and vanilla and chocolate Hagen Daz ice cream ~ BUT...not one single sugar free dessert choice unless you wanted to make do with an orange. I felt bad for my husband, as well as others who must restrict their sugar/carb intake. :angry: Taking a train trip and having "special" meals and service in the dining car should include some "treats...." for everybody.

Amtrak has at least one selection available for vegetarians at each meal .....why not some healthy low/no sugar choices for diabetics as well? Both my husband and I do make an attempt to keep as healthy as possible by making good eating choices and exercising. So far, my husband has been able to control his diabetes with diet ~ but it's a little difficult when choices aren't offered ~ and when they close the kitchen down without adequate notice .... <_<

Couldn't agree with you more. As a dibetic I've often found myself trying to limit my sugar intake while riding Amtrak. If your on a train 3,4 or even 5 nights it's hard to keep eating salads or all meat dishes with no sides. Often I've found myself ordering desert and only eating one or two bites just to get a taste. I always travel with a stash of dibetic type food for snacks or emergenices in case a train gets disabled and food runs low onboard. Amtrak needs to take dibetics into consideration in menu planning.

 

[Ryan]

Couldn't agree with you more. As a dibetic I've often found myself trying to limit my sugar intake while riding Amtrak. If your on a train 3,4 or even 5 nights it's hard to keep eating salads or all meat dishes with no sides. Often I've found myself ordering desert and only eating one or two bites just to get a taste. I always travel with a stash of dibetic type food for snacks or emergenices in case a train gets disabled and food runs low onboard. Amtrak needs to take dibetics into consideration in menu planning.

What was Amtrak's reply when you've complained to them about these issues?

What about when you notified them of your special dietary needs?
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...d=1241245669559

 

[the_traveler]

amtrak does offer special foods but you have to call ahead of time and let them know.

That is true, but what if someone doesn't want a special _____ meal, or did not call up early to "request" it? How about if they just want Jello for desert or sugar-free syrup for their french toast? :huh:

I'm not saying that you specifically need it, but what if YOU just wanted one of those items? :huh: Would you call Amtrak a day or 2 before your trip and order a whole ____ meal just so you can get 1 item? :huh: I'm not sure how Amtrak special meals are done, but back in the dark ages when I flew , if you ordered a special meal, it included the entire tray. You could not just take 1 thing out, and then get the "regular" meal.

 

[Montanan]

I think if someone has medical or religious reasons for needing specific foods, the need to take the responsibility to call Amtrak and inform them of that fact ... just as they would if they were taking an overseas airline flight.

I've been to plenty of immobile restaurants with menus that are way less friendly to vegetarians and diabetics than Amtrak is, and they don't have the operational and financial constraints that Amtrak does. And if you start adding up all the possible dietary restrictions that people could have (things like allergies and such), the list would be overwhelming ... and there's just no way that Amtrak (or any food service facility) could preemptively anticipate them all.

Diabetes is definitely very common in America -- it runs in my family, in fact -- but even if Amtrak tried to do a "diabetic" menu it would be a major challenge, because not everyone uses the same diet for diabetes management. So it makes sense for travelers to take responsibility for their own dietary health, both on Amtrak and elsewhere.

 

[EB_OBS]

Amtrak added sugar-free syrup to it's menu back in June. It's supposed to be on automatic par for LD trains serving french toast or pancakes. I can't guarantee it's offered automatically onboard but it should be available upon request.

 

[EB_OBS]

As mentioned in another post our dining car kitchens and storage space is finite and during peak season especially is sufficiently lacking enough space.

The menu selections are available at the website. This should be checked before traveling. Amtrak can accommodate most dietary restrictions and requirements if you call and let reservations know. The system isn't perfect, sometimes the communication fails. The options aren't extensive either but they suffice for most passengers for one or two days travel.

I'm know many Amtrak chefs would love to have a lot more options and menu selections on-board. Unfortunately storage space, and even staffing on some trains, limits each meal to only 5 or 6 entree selections.

Believe me the on-board crews are compassionate and considerate of dietary needs. The OBS crews have the same dietary restrictions by percentage as the general population yet are on-board, away from home for 5-8 days depending upon which train they work. Amtrak prohibits any employee from bringing their own food into diner cars or even using storage or cooking equipment to bring it with you. They have to eat from the same menu passengers do for entire careers. It's a common complaint still unresolved by Amtrak.

FWIW, for those travelers who frequently ride trains and/or ride several different routes, Amtrak has returned regional menu selections to some trains and there are varied menu selections depending upon direction of travel on the same train. The menu is also being rotated, evaluated and refreshed every June and October for the last two years, which should continue into the future. So entree variety is better than it has been in a while

 

[EB_OBS]

Well ~ After reading through this thread and learning of the extended delays on the Empire Builder, I am certainly glad (and fortunate!) that my husband and I were on the west bound train that left Chicago on Wednesday, December 30th!!
We actually arrived into Seattle about 1/2 hour ahead of schedule on January 1st. From what I could tell, we were pretty much on schedule for the entire trip inspite of some pretty cold temperatures ~ it was 1F in Minot during daytime hours ~ with periodically heavy snow and gusty winds along the route.

All in all we had a grand time and would like to do the trip again during the summertime when daylight hours are extended, so we can enjoy more of the scenery along the way. It was totally dark by 5pm and the sun (when we saw it) didn't fully rise until after 8am! We missed the spectacular scenery of Glacier National Park altogether.... :unsure: I must say that the full moon we had enroute shining down on the freshly fallen snow was truly beautiful.

So as not to start another thread about our "adventures" on our trip ~ we did have some good experiences, as well as some negative ones.

Bad:

1. As we went down the platform looking for our sleeping car, we showed our tickets to the first sleeping car attendent whom we came upon and he told us we were in his car and to go up to Bedroom B there. Once we got our coats in the closet and our bags tucked away, we decided to take a brief stroll towards the dining car. When we came back, there was ANOTHER person in our bedroom! Hmmmmm... <_< I got off the train with our tickets and asked another sleeping car attendent I found if we were supposed to be in the car we were told to get into. Nope! Turns out that we were in the PORTLAND section of the train and we were going to Seattle! At this point, we had to gather up all our belongings, get our bags out of the downstairs storage area, and make a mad dash to the correct car! :angry: You would "ASSUME" that the sleeping car attendents would know the number of the car that they're assigned to! They're supposed to helping us!!! AND ~ I assumed (wrongly, obviously!) that employees would be providing correct information.

2. We were not notified by our sleeping car attendent or our server on our final evening meal that there would be NO breakfast service after 7am on our final morning leg into Seattle. When I asked the sleeping car attendent about why we weren't told of this, he replied that an announcement had been made sometime after he turned our beds down (and we had retired for the night). :angry: He also told us that the crew isn't allowed to make public announcements before 7am....BUT they didn't seem to have any problems with walking through the sleeping car using walkie-talkies! We had been awake for quite awhile before 7am, but had refrained from showering early out of courtesy to our next door neighbors. When we showed up in the dining car at about 7:10am ~ where there were still quite a few diners ~ we were told that we could have yogurt and a muffin, but all the other food gad been "thrown away." I told the lead dining car attendent, Gina, that my husband is a diabetic and both those items are sugar based. They finally scrounged up a couple of oranges, a couple of biscuits (still not good for carbs) and some milk. I got the impression that we were causing an unwelcome "problem" for them by not accepting the yogurt and muffins. Neither of us drink coffee either ~ which was offered ~ due to heart palpitation issues. Our "breakfast snack" tided us over until we got to Seattle, but my husband who is 6'4" and has a good appetite was NOT a happy camper..... he was all set for eggs and sausage, which would have been far better for him than the carbs in the biscuit and orange. I WILL be writing a letter to Amtrak complaining about this situation. The servers should notify EACH TABLE seating at the evening meal on the night before the train splits in Spokane, that they MUST be in the dining car before 7am to be served breakfast on the last day out. Seems like a VERY simple thing to do, but it wasn't.

3. Both my husband and I thought that the quality of the food was not as good as we had on our recent trip on the California Zehphr in late September ~ although the menus were almost identical. The "cooked to order" steak was pretty good, although I thought that the "flat iron steak" (pot roast style actually) that we had on the Zephyr was just as tasty. The "angus steak burgers" weren't nearly as tasty and the breakfasts were just sort of "blah" on the Empire Builder.

4. One of the servers made several very public comments about how he had a TERRIBLE COLD, which made us feel rather uncomfortable that he was serving us! He also made a comment that due to the dish washer not showing up for the run, we had to be served on plastic for all the meals on the entire trip.

Good:

1. We REALLY enjoyed the wine and cheese tasting that was held the second day out. We never were treated to any special events during our trip on the California Zephyr.

2. We liked the complementary splits of champagne that were provided as we left Chicago! We didn't get this on the Zephyr either.....

QUESTION??? Why don't long hauls ~ 2 days or more ~ have identical perks for sleeping car passengers??

3. The temperatures on the train were quite comfortable in spite of the very cold weather we encountered along the route.

I'm glad to hear that overall your trip went well. I too wish that Glacier Park's scenery was more visible during winter season. It's truly beautiful year round.

First the Bad:

1. No excuses the attendant obviously wasn't paying attention and may have looked at your tickets but apparently didn't really look at them.

2. There is an announcement made after Whitefish or approximately 9:00 pm to inform all passengers of the breakfast the following morning. Excellent wait staff and train attendants will also do a much better job of making sure the sleeping car passengers know how early and short the breakfast service is that day into Seattle.

3. The EB dining car menu is one of the best on Amtrak. Dietary needs can be accommodated, most of the time, if you notify Amtrak ahead of time.

4. Tact, unfortunately isn't a god given trait in all of us. This person obviously is lacking and I apologize.

Good:

1 & 2. The EB and the CS have some premium service which isn't offered on other trains. Mostly marketing and management decisions I surmise.

3. I'm very glad you experienced good operating equipment so recently. We have had a bad rash of cars traveling with defective climate control, HVAC lately. It's rough on everyone passengers and crew alike.

I do encourage you to call Customer Relations. You feedback is valuable and does get forwarded to the appropriate departments and managers.

 

[rail_rider]

Amtrak added sugar-free syrup to it's menu back in June. It's supposed to be on automatic par for LD trains serving french toast or pancakes. I can't guarantee it's offered automatically onboard but it should be available upon request.

Was on the TE & CL since June and did not see any sugar-free syrup. To be fair, I didn't ask as I had been told prior to June that it wasn't available. I hope this is true. I hope someone will post if they have been able to order it onboard.

 

[Ispolkom]

Amtrak added sugar-free syrup to it's menu back in June. It's supposed to be on automatic par for LD trains serving french toast or pancakes. I can't guarantee it's offered automatically onboard but it should be available upon request.

Was on the TE & CL since June and did not see any sugar-free syrup. To be fair, I didn't ask as I had been told prior to June that it wasn't available. I hope this is true. I hope someone will post if they have been able to order it onboard.

Now that you mention it, I did see sugar-free syrup at breakfast on trains #7 and #8 at Christmas time.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

and the fact that amtrak in a way is like CSX if it ain't broke don't fix it. there are lots of minor things they can do with there little shoe string budget to prevent this kind of stuff. install air dryers on the brake lines for one.

 

[oldtimer]

and the fact that amtrak in a way is like CSX if it ain't broke don't fix it. there are lots of minor things they can do with there little shoe string budget to prevent this kind of stuff. install air dryers on the brake lines for one.

I can tell you that in my 37 years of working for Amtrak I can assure you that every locomotive ordered and built for Amtrak has been equipped with at least one and some more than one air dryer.

:blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[JayPea]

I'm diabetic (type 2) and I guess I'm one of the lucky ones: I've had diabetes for four years now and have always had excellent control of my sugar levels. I was told by my dietician that I didn't have to avoid sugar altogether, just limit my intake so I will sometimes have dessert, sometimes not. They have had fresh fruit available in the past but that option seems to have gone by the wayside. I also take diabetic-friendly snacks along.

 

[GG-1]

and the fact that amtrak in a way is like CSX if it ain't broke don't fix it. there are lots of minor things they can do with there little shoe string budget to prevent this kind of stuff. install air dryers on the brake lines for one.

I can tell you that in my 37 years of working for Amtrak I can assure you that every locomotive ordered and built for Amtrak has been equipped with at least one and some more than one air dryer.

:blink: :blink: :blink:

Aloha

Glad you confirmed what I thought. I couldn't think of anything that uses compressed Air that did not have to deal with the water vapor issues. My old truck that that had Air Brakes had "spitters" on each storage tank. No Dryer as the temp never goes below ?55. 59 might be the lowest ever on Oahu.

Mahalo

Eric

BTW: Enjoyed the evening we had in Chicago, Start of the last Gathering.

 

[Jeremy]

My wife and I will be taking the EB round trip from Portland to Chicago this coming September. I appreciate the early breakfast warning for the last day into PDX. Are there other tips for this route of which we should be aware? Three years ago we took the CZ and had a great time except I didn't get my wife's vegan menu request in on time so she had to pick through the standard menu (actually, I was the one who suffered).

Jeremy

 

[JoanieBlon]

My wife and I will be taking the EB round trip from Portland to Chicago this coming September. I appreciate the early breakfast warning for the last day into PDX. Are there other tips for this route of which we should be aware? Three years ago we took the CZ and had a great time except I didn't get my wife's vegan menu request in on time so she had to pick through the standard menu (actually, I was the one who suffered).
Jeremy

If I am not mistaken, when the train splits in Spokane, the one (only) Dining Car goes to Seattle (closes at 7am) and the Lounge Car with the Cafe on the first level goes to Portland. I read somewhere that only "cold" selections (and probably limited as well) would be available on the Portland section for breakfast when headed Westbound. I've poked around a bit and can't find anything with that information on it right now. I'm not certain what sort of meals are available from Portland to Spokane when headed Eastbound.
Hopefully someone with personal experience can expand a bit on this information....

 

[Jeremy]

If I am not mistaken, when the train splits in Spokane, the one (only) Dining Car goes to Seattle (closes at 7am) and the Lounge Car with the Cafe on the first level goes to Portland. I read somewhere that only "cold" selections (and probably limited as well) would be available on the Portland section for breakfast when headed Westbound. I've poked around a bit and can't find anything with that information on it right now. I'm not certain what sort of meals are available from Portland to Spokane when headed Easbound.
Hopefully someone with personal experience can expand a bit on this information....

Thanks for the clue -- I found it in the timetable on the Amtrak web site "Dining . . . Not available between Spokane and Portland. Sleeping car service passengers will receive complimentary cold meal service."

As regards meals on the eastbound #8, the above caveat may also apply, since the train leaves Portland at 4:45 PM and arrives at Spokane at 12:13 AM. Clearly, dinner should be in there somewhere. . . this almost argues for a Seattle departure against Portland (to get a hot meal) but we have friends to store our car in Portland and the tix are already bought. Kind of suggests having a big, late lunch before boarding in Portland. This we are capable of doing. Lotsa good restaurants there.

BTW, are the Seattle and Portland legs combined at Spokane or do they run two separate trains? I've never read how this is managed. The timing would seem to argue for a combination, since the Portland passengers spend an hour in Spokane and the Seattle pax almost 45 minutes between midnight and 1AM.

Jeremy

 

[Bob Dylan]

A pretty decent box lunch and choice of drink (non alcohol)is servedon the PDX-SPK #28 usually like three choices of entree. Ane yes, the train is coupled to #8 out of SEA in SPK. It's dark this time of year so they'll miss the Columbia River scenery, you have to ride #27 from SPK-PDX to see it till Summer comes! Pretty much the same thing from SEA-CHI!

 

[Jeremy]

We are traveling in mid-September so we will see some of the Columbia if the train is on time leaving PDX. Mid-September we should be able to see up to The Dalles and on the return leg we'll see a little more if we can wake up early enough. Most of what Lewis and Clark saw is drowned now anyway. Thanks for the word on the train connection.

My only remaining concern is proper communications with Amtrak so my wife gets her vegan option menu.

Jeremy

A pretty decent box lunch and choice of drink (non alcohol)is servedon the PDX-SPK #28 usually like three choices of entree. Ane yes, the train is coupled to #8 out of SEA in SPK. It's dark this time of year so they'll miss the Columbia River scenery, you have to ride #27 from SPK-PDX to see it till Summer comes! Pretty much the same thing from SEA-CHI!