What should Amtrak change?

[Ryan]

Considering the topic of this thread only, how would you rate current Amtrak management and how they have handled it? It seems pretty bad to me. On a scale of 1-10 I would give them maybe a 2 or 3 since they did at least offer me a free upgrade.

Given the lack of insight that we have into the causes of the issues, I'm going to decline to provide a rating, which is kind of my point. In a world where everything is upside down, and years worth of chronic underfunding have prevented the kind of computer systems that handle IRROPS as described above, you may well have the world's greatest managers in place and seeing much the same thing (likely with better communication). But without that inside knowledge, it's hard to tell a 7 (I'll cap it there based on the previously-mentioned communications issues) from a 0.

 

[zetharion]

Given the lack of insight that we have into the causes of the issues, I'm going to decline to provide a rating, which is kind of my point. In a world where everything is upside down, and years worth of chronic underfunding have prevented the kind of computer systems that handle IRROPS as described above, you may well have the world's greatest managers in place and seeing much the same thing (likely with better communication). But without that inside knowledge, it's hard to tell a 7 (I'll cap it there based on the previously-mentioned communications issues) from a 0.

That is part of the bad management. Regardless of whatever the reason is, they have nearly ZERO communication with their customer base. We don't know because we haven't hacked into their system to read emails and memos. They really should just be up front about why they move around the cars that they do. That cant be some kind of Coca Cola recipe level secret. They don't tell you why you are downgraded. They don't tell you why your train was cancelled. They seemingly let sleeper options go empty versus reducing the rate to somewhere between coach and the sleeper option to try and get an ass in that seat to earn revenue.

The default reason thrown around is staff shortages. They are short on staff due to how many people they got rid of during the pandemic instead of properly managing the situation to not be in this situation on the other side. Amtrak has managed itself into the situation it is currently in.

Zero communication = bad management.

 

[TheCrescent]

I see that Swedish railways let passengers have breakfast at a restaurant near the train station, included in the ticket price, for some destinations.

Maybe Amtrak ought to offer a $16 (or whatever the cost of a Flexible Dining meal is) voucher, redeemable at a restaurant, for people who prefer to opt out of Flexible Dining.

I spent $18 at Chick-fil-A and Starbucks during and after my latest Crescent trip so I’d go for that.

 

[marcoloco]

They should at least put on a few more cars FOR THE HOLIDAY SEASON (Thanksgiving, Christmas, summertime, etc) They like to run a train with as few cars as they can, because the freight railroads charge them by the number of axels in the consist, and Amtrak (in order to make themselves look good) will go way overboard and take a car off (or 2). I make 10 round trips a year between Houston, Tx and LAX in the SLEEPER and they have one single sleeper and the crew takes up 6 of those rooms, leaving just a handful of rooms available for sale to the public. Another thing they should do is if you complain about something through the proper channels, you just get a "form letter" response. They explain nothing. Replying every time saying "we're so sorry we could not meet your expectations" just doesn't cut it.

 

[TheCrescent]

Amtrak crew should let your board your train through any open door in any car (except first/business/sleeper if you haven’t paid for that).

Once when I had a first class Acela ticket, I boarded a business class car and was going to walk through to the first class car because a crowd was blocking the first class door. Result? I was yelled at by a crew member.

Another time, I was going to board sleeping car 1911 on the Crescent, when my room was in car 1910 (the next one). Even though my room was right near the end of the car so boarding through car 1911 was closer than walking to the other end of 1910 and boarding, result? I was yelled at by a crew member.

Great way to start a trip.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

@TheCrescent yup!!! You can’t win.

I was told I couldn’t board through DC lounge for my sleeper because I had a Jamba Juice. I waited in the cattle line with coach passengers and that gate agent told me I was supposed to board through the lounge if I was in a sleeper. Can’t win.

Actually when I boarded the coast starlight in Oakland the sleeper attendant for another sleeper told me to walk down to my sleeper and when I did the conductor told me I was supposed to wait in line until HE told me I could go.

I’ve just started laughing about it at this point.

 

[jis]

@TheCrescent yup!!! You can’t win.

I was told I couldn’t board through DC lounge for my sleeper because I had a Jamba Juice. I waited in the cattle line with coach passengers and that gate agent told me I was supposed to board through the lounge if I was in a sleeper. Can’t win.

Actually when I boarded the coast starlight in Oakland the sleeper attendant for another sleeper told me to walk down to my sleeper and when I did the conductor told me I was supposed to wait in line until HE told me I could go.

I’ve just started laughing about it at this point.

Alan and I had a similar experience at Memphis while boarding the CONO. No one ever told us anything about waiting for the Conductor, so when the train arrived we found our car and got on it. After the train started moving the Conductor came to yell at us, and we basically told him we are not mind readers. If he wanted someone to wait he should have informed them with a sign or something on the platform or the waiting room instead of yelling. The saving grace was he did not threaten to eject us. , which would have been inconvenient, since all the Sleeper boardings were actually told by the station guy to just go and board, and there were more than half a dozen of us. He would have had to empty out more than a third of his entire load.

 

[MARC Rider]

@TheCrescent yup!!! You can’t win.

I was told I couldn’t board through DC lounge for my sleeper because I had a Jamba Juice. I waited in the cattle line with coach passengers and that gate agent told me I was supposed to board through the lounge if I was in a sleeper. Can’t win.

How did the gate agent know you were in a sleeper if you were in the cattle line? My experience in Washington, especially the lower level boardings, is that the gate agents don't interact all that much with the passengers, except to direct them down the steps/escalators to the platform.

 

[Northwestern]

I see that Swedish railways let passengers have breakfast at a restaurant near the train station, included in the ticket price, for some destinations.

Maybe Amtrak ought to offer a $16 (or whatever the cost of a Flexible Dining meal is) voucher, redeemable at a restaurant, for people who prefer to opt out of Flexible Dining.

I spent $18 at Chick-fil-A and Starbucks during and after my latest Crescent trip so I’d go for that.

One advantage of the Rocky Mountaineer packages is cost coverage for hotels and motels upon departure, along the way, and at a final destination. I wonder if Amtrak could have similar packages?
Maybe not full coverage but allow lodging discount rates and restaurant discounts.

 

[zetharion]

One advantage of the Rocky Mountaineer packages is cost coverage for hotels and motels upon departure, along the way, and at a final destination. I wonder if Amtrak could have similar packages?
Maybe not full coverage but allow lodging discount rates and restaurant discounts.

Thats proactive forward thinking management. Unless there is some weird regulation somewhere that prohibits it, it just makes sense.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

How did the gate agent know you were in a sleeper if you were in the cattle line? My experience in Washington, especially the lower level boardings, is that the gate agents don't interact all that much with the passengers, except to direct them down the steps/escalators to the platform.

The gate agent was checking all tickets.

 

[TheCrescent]

Alan and I had a similar experience at Memphis while boarding the CONO. No one ever told us anything about waiting for the Conductor, so when the train arrived we found our car and got on it. After the train started moving the Conductor came to yell at us, and we basically told him we are not mind readers. If he wanted someone to wait he should have informed them with a sign or something on the platform or the waiting room instead of yelling. The saving grace was he did not threaten to eject us. , which would have been inconvenient, since all the Sleeper boardings were actually told by the station guy to just go and board, and there were more than half a dozen of us. He would have had to empty out more than a third of his entire load.

Please tell me that you reported him to Amtrak. I’m not clear on what good it did for him to yell at you: so you’d wait for a conductor next time you took Amtrak (assuming that would happen after that experience)?

 

[user 14106]

The default reason thrown around is staff shortages. They are short on staff due to how many people they got rid of during the pandemic instead of properly managing the situation to not be in this situation on the other side. Amtrak has managed itself into the situation it is currently in.

Zero communication = bad management.

The pandemic furloughs are a contributor to the staffing shortages, but it's not the whole story. I think the more damaging decision back then was the parking of equipment and deferral of overhauls to save money. I think also there probably should have been an effort to retain at least the highly skilled workers at the various mechanical shops as these jobs are so hard to fill due to the economy wide lack of skilled craft workers. They did get returns across the workforce when they recalled the furloughed employees - enough in fact to resume daily service last June. However staffing has gotten worse at times since then - the pandemic has induced a lot of voluntary retirements and job turnovers across the workforce - the "great retirement" is a term you sometimes hear. It's very likely that even if they had avoided furloughs they'd still have had a lot of retirements and resignations over the last couple years and reached a similar point to where they are now.

While there are certainly management decisions during the pandemic that warrant criticism, the parking of equipment especially so, I think to imply that they have directly managed themselves into this predicament is a bit too far. There are management decisions that haven't helped - but it's important to note that Amtrak doesn't exist in a vacuum and is subject to the same trends that affect the larger economy and society. As Ryan stated I think everyone can agree that Amtrak certainly doesn't deserve an 8-10 grade for its pandemic handling - but it's hard to know whether it's 0-7. Even if the grade was a 10 - Amtrak would be having many of the same problems it has because of the upside down realities of the world and what's going on with the larger workforce. I see it where I work - far more resignations than new hires. Some of these problems may eventually require rethinking of some things at the societal level - such as the chorus since the '90s that if you want a good job you need to go to college resulting in a chronic lack of talent in the skilled trades. I think our education system needs to be retooled and refocused to try to encourage young people into the careers our society needs. Those issues are out of the control of Amtrak management.

 

[jis]

Please tell me that you reported him to Amtrak. I’m not clear on what good it did for him to yell at you: so you’d wait for a conductor next time you took Amtrak (assuming that would happen after that experience)?

As it turned out I was talking to a friend of mine at Amtrak over phone at that time, someone who then was Boardman's right hand man, so he certainly heard about it. But various friends in management have acknowledged in the past that Amtrak has not managed to get a handle on this whole matter because of various union/management politics involved. Of course the more egregious problems are in places like Chicago and Sunnyside. The inconsistent Conductor behavior is not as earthshaking, though it does need to be fixed. It does affect things like OTP, notwithstanding the protestations of those involved to the contrary.

 

[TheCrescent]

Amtrak should have a quiet car (among the coaches) on all trains, including long distance ones, set aside a portion of the business or first class car as a quiet zone, and enforce noise limits.

Surely that would help ridership. There are enough people who don’t want to hear someone’s streaming movies or cell phone calls, and who drive to avoid that.

 

[jis]

Amtrak should have a quiet car (among the coaches) on all trains, including long distance ones, set aside a portion of the business or first class car as a quiet zone, and enforce noise limits.

Surely that would help ridership. There are enough people who don’t want to hear someone’s streaming movies or cell phone calls, and who drive to avoid that.

Many airlines solution to the screaming babies problem in Business Class is to give everyone noise canceling headphones and ear plugs, since nothing can really force every baby to be quiet, and adults only flights are terrible from the perspective of the optics of it.

In trains since there is a natural partition available between cars, it is more feasible to do quiet cars. I am not sure how well a partial quiet car would work absent some kind of a partition separating the quiet section from the non-quiet one.

 

[user 14106]

Amtrak should have a quiet car (among the coaches) on all trains, including long distance ones, set aside a portion of the business or first class car as a quiet zone, and enforce noise limits.

Surely that would help ridership. There are enough people who don’t want to hear someone’s streaming movies or cell phone calls, and who drive to avoid that.

That’s not a bad idea. On the Superliners you could make the lower level coach seats the “quiet car” and market them as such.

 

[joelkfla]

That’s not a bad idea. On the Superliners you could make the lower level coach seats the “quiet car” and market them as such.

That would probably be an ADA violation, as persons unable to climb the stairs would be prohibited from making a phone call, or whooping it up.

 

[Bonser]

Amtrak needs get Newark Penn Station fixed up. It’s a dump, particularly the platform areas. Someone paying $250 for a first-class Acela ticket or $500+ for a sleeping car ticket wants to wait there? I think not!

Newark's Penn Station is hardly a dump. Not one area of it is, certainly not the platform areas. It's old, yes. But it's fairly well maintained and considered by many (myself included) to be one of the jewels in the Amtrak system.

 

[jis]

Newark's Penn Station is hardly a dump. Not one area of it is, certainly not the platform areas. It's old, yes. But it's fairly well maintained and considered by many (myself included) to be one of the jewels in the Amtrak system.

I agree with you, more so after the last rehab. The new refurbishment taking place will make it even better. It is currently quite well maintained and is far from anything that I would call a dump. But I suppose it is partly a matter of taste too.

Anyhow, there is not much that Amtrak can do about it since the station is owned and operated by NJT, as are all other stations in NJ that Amtrak calles at, except for Newark Airport, shich is owned and operated by PANYNJ.

 

[PVD]

That would probably be an ADA violation, as persons unable to climb the stairs would be prohibited from making a phone call, or whooping it up.

And the next gotcha might be if you made an upstairs area or car a quiet zone, you would be adding an amenity unavailable to the mobility limited.

 

[TheCrescent]

Newark's Penn Station is hardly a dump. Not one area of it is, certainly not the platform areas. It's old, yes. But it's fairly well maintained and considered by many (myself included) to be one of the jewels in the Amtrak system.

The platform areas look dirty, have paint peeling and, at the ends, are totally derelict. If that’s well-maintained, I shudder to think what counts as poorly maintained.

Look at the Yelp reviews.

 

[west point]

While there are certainly management decisions during the pandemic that warrant criticism, the parking of equipment especially so, I think to imply that they have directly managed themselves into this predicament is a bit too far.

The very bad decision was to not tasrt hiring peersonnel starting Oct 1 2021. The new FY 2022 funds were know then and hiring and, recalling every T&E , OBS, + Maintnance would have left this summer's service much better.

 

[Ryan]

You know for a fact that didn't happen?

 

[TheCrescent]

One thing Amtrak should change is its website payment mechanics so that credit card payments go through more often.

I constantly have credit cards declined online by Amtrak, and yesterday two credit cards caused the site and app to stop working; messages appeared stating that there was an Amtrak system error.

I don’t have these issues when booking plane tickets online.