when/why did Amtrak get rid of "coach," "sleeper," etc

[rms492]

Kind of hard to keep up with all the changing paints and paint schemes, but why did Amtrak do away with car type names on the outside? Now, they just have numbers.

I always thought it was kind of cool seeing your consist. I'm not good with numbers.

And would not having the car types name be a selling point to the general public? Seeing "sleeping car" in words while going by a crossing might have people just try Amtrak out.

What are we up to now? Phase IV? Phase V?

No more "Superliner" wording either?

When did "Coachclass" become a word??

Amtrak has become boring to watch go by lately.

I like the first image, I dont like the second one.

 

[yarrow]

agree. "coachclass" is an idiotic word. i much prefer "chair car"

 

[jis]

i much prefer "chair car"

That's what they call such accommodation in India! And of course originally such came to India in the mid-50's essentially copying such from the US. They were first introduced in the so called "Air Conditioned Express" trains in 1956. They were handsome trains pulled by bullet nosed WP class steam locomotives designed jointly by Baldwin and Indian Railways, and initial 120 or so were built at the Baldwin Eddystone plant just outside of Philly. The only reference that remains to that plant is in the form of the "Baldwin" interlocking or CP on the NEC near the current Eddystone station.

 

[yarrow]

i much prefer "chair car"

That's what they call such accommodation in India! And of course originally such came to India in the mid-50's essentially copying such from the US. They were first introduced in the so called "Air Conditioned Express" trains in 1956. They were handsome trains pulled by bullet nosed WP class steam locomotives designed jointly by Baldwin and Indian Railways, and initial 120 or so were built at the Baldwin Eddystone plant just outside of Philly. The only reference that remains to that plant is in the form of the "Baldwin" interlocking or CP on the NEC near the current Eddystone station.

very interesting. some things i didn't know. thanks. i still prefer "chair car"

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I've always preferred the classic Chair Car name as well; just so long as they do not go back to Chair Smoker!

 

[PerRock]

The word "Superliner" is still on the Superliner car. In your picture, it's the small white text in the blue stripe on the far end of the car.

The Sleeping cars still say "Sleeping Cars" it's just smaller, in blue, down by the door. The Coach cars say "Coachclass" there, the Dining Cars say "Dining Car" and the Sightseer Lounge cars say "Lounge Car", I don't know about the Diner Lites.

I don't know about the switch in names. But I do prefer the location and size the car types are now (Phase IVb) compared to the last version, Phase IV. In Phase II & III the car type placement works quite well with the design & I like it up there. Phase IV just seemed hodge-podged together. Like something someone designed & then was modified by 6 different secretaries, who never spoke to each other.

The current paint scheme is usually refered to as "Phase IVb" as it essentially the same as Phase IV, with just some modifications. The engines are in Phase V, there is currently some debate as to what the new Viewliner paint scheme will be called, I prefer 'Phase IIIb'. You can read up on all the paint schemes on this wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_paint_schemes

I believe the word "Coachclass" came around with the Acela which has "First Class" and "Buissness Class" on the NERs they wanted to reflect that there are three level's of service on the NEC, and keep them related so they added "Class" to "Coach", why one word, who knows. And since Coachclass on the NERs is the same level of service as any other coach; all other trains got labeled "Coachclass" mainly being consistent.

peter

 

[seat38a]

They moved it near the door. Much smaller fonts.

P1000033 by seat38a, on Flickr

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Kind of hard to keep up with all the changing paints and paint schemes, but why did Amtrak do away with car type names on the outside? Now, they just have numbers. I always thought it was kind of cool seeing your consist. I'm not good with numbers. And would not having the car types name be a selling point to the general public? Seeing "sleeping car" in words while going by a crossing might have people just try Amtrak out. What are we up to now? Phase IV? Phase V? No more "Superliner" wording either? When did "Coachclass" become a word?? Amtrak has become boring to watch go by lately. I like the first image, I dont like the second one.

I don't understand your complaint. If anything the current system is the most widespread and consistent Amtrak has ever had. My trains still have sleeper and coach and diner and lounge printed on them. Not sure why your trains don't. Coachclass is about as worthy of being a word as Superliner. If Amtrak is too boring then I guess we can try to bring back the retina stabbing rainbow trains.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

They moved it near the door. Much smaller fonts.

P1000033 by seat38a, on Flickr

I dislike this "names in small font down by the door" thing immensely. This photo is a good reason why that's such a BAD idea. In busy stations, people are walking back and forth in front of the doors constantly, & block your view of the car name.

I think of myself as an "average" LD train traveler. I can recognize a dining car & a lounge car pretty easily, but I can't always tell the difference between a coach car & a sleeper quickly - especially if I'm walking through a crowded station and I'm busy trying not to run into people.

This rather bland paint scheme may be more unified across the fleet, but it doesn't make it easy for non-railfans to identify the car they're looking for. Also, I think Amtrak is missing a big advertising opportunity - how many Americans see a Superliner go by on a train track, and have no idea what it is? Why not use that opportunity to promote Amtrak travel?

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

I also don't get the complaint. I have been traveling Amtrak LD trains since 1970's and never had a problem seeing "sleeper car" imprint nor the car number which is the main thing you need when boarding.

 

[PerRock]

They moved it near the door. Much smaller fonts.

P1000033 by seat38a, on Flickr

I dislike this "names in small font down by the door" thing immensely. This photo is a good reason why that's such a BAD idea. In busy stations, people are walking back and forth in front of the doors constantly, & block your view of the car name.

I think of myself as an "average" LD train traveler. I can recognize a dining car & a lounge car pretty easily, but I can't always tell the difference between a coach car & a sleeper quickly - especially if I'm walking through a crowded station and I'm busy trying not to run into people.

This rather bland paint scheme may be more unified across the fleet, but it doesn't make it easy for non-railfans to identify the car they're looking for. Also, I think Amtrak is missing a big advertising opportunity - how many Americans see a Superliner go by on a train track, and have no idea what it is? Why not use that opportunity to promote Amtrak travel?

I can see the argument for larger letters saying what the car is for advertisements sake. However stating "Superliner" in big letters down the side isn't really something needing advertised. Superliner is a type of car, it's not really any different (in terms of new passenger comfort) then a Horizon or an Amfleet. If you're going to put "Superliner" in big letters down the side, why not also put "Horizon" in big letters down the side of those cars?

As for the station boarding, you're rarely boarding completely unguided by Amtrak. In most cases there is an announcement telling you where to go to board, as well as someone by the door who is going to look at your ticket and tell you where to go, regardless if you read the sign next to the door. In most cases "Coach" doesn't really delineate where you will be boarding; usually you board based off destination, and having "Coach" in big letters on the side isn't going to help you figure out where to go. Also, your not really ever going to be that far away from the train when looking where to board, so small letters are quite adequate, a platform is only a few meters wide. For sleeping cars, you board based off train car number, which really isn't publicized on the exterior, and never really was.

If you wanted to implement a signage system to assist in boarding, for long distance trains (superliners) put an LED sign on the outside stating that car's destination. For corridor trains, a sign at each station, showing the mockup of the train and what cars go wher (much like they do in Europe) would work.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

They moved it near the door. Much smaller fonts.

P1000033 by seat38a, on Flickr

I dislike this "names in small font down by the door" thing immensely. This photo is a good reason why that's such a BAD idea. In busy stations, people are walking back and forth in front of the doors constantly, & block your view of the car name.

I think of myself as an "average" LD train traveler. I can recognize a dining car & a lounge car pretty easily, but I can't always tell the difference between a coach car & a sleeper quickly - especially if I'm walking through a crowded station and I'm busy trying not to run into people.

This rather bland paint scheme may be more unified across the fleet, but it doesn't make it easy for non-railfans to identify the car they're looking for. Also, I think Amtrak is missing a big advertising opportunity - how many Americans see a Superliner go by on a train track, and have no idea what it is? Why not use that opportunity to promote Amtrak travel?

I can see the argument for larger letters saying what the car is for advertisements sake. However stating "Superliner" in big letters down the side isn't really something needing advertised. Superliner is a type of car, it's not really any different (in terms of new passenger comfort) then a Horizon or an Amfleet. If you're going to put "Superliner" in big letters down the side, why not also put "Horizon" in big letters down the side of those cars?

As for the station boarding, you're rarely boarding completely unguided by Amtrak. In most cases there is an announcement telling you where to go to board, as well as someone by the door who is going to look at your ticket and tell you where to go, regardless if you read the sign next to the door. In most cases "Coach" doesn't really delineate where you will be boarding; usually you board based off destination, and having "Coach" in big letters on the side isn't going to help you figure out where to go. Also, your not really ever going to be that far away from the train when looking where to board, so small letters are quite adequate, a platform is only a few meters wide. For sleeping cars, you board based off train car number, which really isn't publicized on the exterior, and never really was.

If you wanted to implement a signage system to assist in boarding, for long distance trains (superliners) put an LED sign on the outside stating that car's destination. For corridor trains, a sign at each station, showing the mockup of the train and what cars go wher (much like they do in Europe) would work.

I agree with you about the Superliner part - having "Superliner" on the side of the train was silly, and imparted no useful information to passengers. I'd just like to see them replace the large "Superliner" wording with "Sleeping Car" or "Coach Car" (or "Chair Car").

I often board in Chicago, & from what I've seen many of the urban stations are similar. You go from a relatively quiet, well lit lounge/station to a dark cavern filled with engine noise, noxious diesel fumes, passengers milling about everywhere, and redcaps who constantly plow through crowds and honk incessantly. Basically, it's one of the circles of hell. Anything they can do to speed things up, even by a few seconds, would help tremendously.

I never have the consists memorized. At best, I can remember that my car is in the front, middle, or rear of the train. Most people don't even know what a "consist" is, and have no idea which car is theirs. As they meander along the train, asking everyone along the way which car is theirs, I just think it would be helpful to give people information that they can remember & will be useful.

For example, if "Sleeper Car" is written in huge blue letters, and "Coach Car" is written in huge red letters, it would be really easy to tell people "Your car is the middle red one" or "the first blue one". It would really cut down on the crowds and confusion.

 

[Ryan]

You're walking down a 15' wide platform, you don't need to see where you're going from a mile away.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Your proposal is sensible and practical therefore it won't get considered @ 60 Mass by the Cut Crew, er Executives!

 

[Ryan]

It's not sensible, it's a solution in search of a problem.

 

[Paulus]

Aside from those who are receiving Red Cap assistance, what exactly is the problem with getting on at any open door and then moving towards the appropriate car after you're on board the train?

 

[SarahZ]

Aside from those who are receiving Red Cap assistance, what exactly is the problem with getting on at any open door and then moving towards the appropriate car after you're on board the train?

Coach passengers should not be boarding sleepers.

Additionally, most people wouldn't have any idea which car is theirs once on the train. Example: The sheer number of people who try to walk into our roomette if we don't keep the door shut.

Also, LD coach seats, for the most part, are assigned by the car attendant. If everyone gets on the train and mills about, it would be like herding cats.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It's not sensible, it's a solution in search of a problem.

I was only speaking to the proposal to have Sleeping Car on Sleepers and Coach (not Coach Class or Chair Car) by the doors in big enough letters for the average rider to see and not be confused! Of course in places like WAS and CHI where there are Multiple Trains on the shared Platforms having better signage on the Platform wouldn't heart either!( ie Capitol Ltd. Train #30 CHI-SOB-TOL-CLE-PGH- WAS )

 

[PerRock]

They moved it near the door. Much smaller fonts.

P1000033 by seat38a, on Flickr

I dislike this "names in small font down by the door" thing immensely. This photo is a good reason why that's such a BAD idea. In busy stations, people are walking back and forth in front of the doors constantly, & block your view of the car name.

I think of myself as an "average" LD train traveler. I can recognize a dining car & a lounge car pretty easily, but I can't always tell the difference between a coach car & a sleeper quickly - especially if I'm walking through a crowded station and I'm busy trying not to run into people.

This rather bland paint scheme may be more unified across the fleet, but it doesn't make it easy for non-railfans to identify the car they're looking for. Also, I think Amtrak is missing a big advertising opportunity - how many Americans see a Superliner go by on a train track, and have no idea what it is? Why not use that opportunity to promote Amtrak travel?

I can see the argument for larger letters saying what the car is for advertisements sake. However stating "Superliner" in big letters down the side isn't really something needing advertised. Superliner is a type of car, it's not really any different (in terms of new passenger comfort) then a Horizon or an Amfleet. If you're going to put "Superliner" in big letters down the side, why not also put "Horizon" in big letters down the side of those cars?

As for the station boarding, you're rarely boarding completely unguided by Amtrak. In most cases there is an announcement telling you where to go to board, as well as someone by the door who is going to look at your ticket and tell you where to go, regardless if you read the sign next to the door. In most cases "Coach" doesn't really delineate where you will be boarding; usually you board based off destination, and having "Coach" in big letters on the side isn't going to help you figure out where to go. Also, your not really ever going to be that far away from the train when looking where to board, so small letters are quite adequate, a platform is only a few meters wide. For sleeping cars, you board based off train car number, which really isn't publicized on the exterior, and never really was.

If you wanted to implement a signage system to assist in boarding, for long distance trains (superliners) put an LED sign on the outside stating that car's destination. For corridor trains, a sign at each station, showing the mockup of the train and what cars go wher (much like they do in Europe) would work.

I agree with you about the Superliner part - having "Superliner" on the side of the train was silly, and imparted no useful information to passengers. I'd just like to see them replace the large "Superliner" wording with "Sleeping Car" or "Coach Car" (or "Chair Car").

I often board in Chicago, & from what I've seen many of the urban stations are similar. You go from a relatively quiet, well lit lounge/station to a dark cavern filled with engine noise, noxious diesel fumes, passengers milling about everywhere, and redcaps who constantly plow through crowds and honk incessantly. Basically, it's one of the circles of hell. Anything they can do to speed things up, even by a few seconds, would help tremendously.

I never have the consists memorized. At best, I can remember that my car is in the front, middle, or rear of the train. Most people don't even know what a "consist" is, and have no idea which car is theirs. As they meander along the train, asking everyone along the way which car is theirs, I just think it would be helpful to give people information that they can remember & will be useful.

For example, if "Sleeper Car" is written in huge blue letters, and "Coach Car" is written in huge red letters, it would be really easy to tell people "Your car is the middle red one" or "the first blue one". It would really cut down on the crowds and confusion.

Chicago is one of my regular stations; and I've never seen people "milling about" out on the Amtrak platforms. It's usually a mad rush to get to your car, just follow the crowd. In fact you basically cannot get onto the platforms unless you talk to someone before hand, whom almost always tells you which car to go to; or at the very least gives you a basic section of a train to go to. It's a feature I'd like to see removed from CUS.

And even with the larger letters on the side, at a location such as Chicago, you won't be able to read what car it is from a distance. When walking trackside/platform side it isn't the size of the text that is a hindrance, but the angle in which you view it.

Amtrak doesn't use the word "consist" when telling people where to go, they use the term "train". Most people boarding a train know that word & can follow the basic instructions such as "Sleeping Car passengers will board at the front of the train."

No one said you have to have the consists memorized. When you have a sleeper, the car number is written right there on your ticket.

Your proposing that I meander down a crowded narrow platform with people milling about and red caps trying to run people over counting the train cars? At that point you might as well tell people: "Your car is the 12th car down the platform." Oh wait, they already do that.

peter

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Chicago is one of my regular stations; and I've never seen people "milling about" out on the Amtrak platforms. It's usually a mad rush to get to your car, just follow the crowd. In fact you basically cannot get onto the platforms unless you talk to someone before hand, whom almost always tells you which car to go to; or at the very least gives you a basic section of a train to go to. It's a feature I'd like to see removed from CUS.

And even with the larger letters on the side, at a location such as Chicago, you won't be able to read what car it is from a distance. When walking trackside/platform side it isn't the size of the text that is a hindrance, but the angle in which you view it.

Amtrak doesn't use the word "consist" when telling people where to go, they use the term "train". Most people boarding a train know that word & can follow the basic instructions such as "Sleeping Car passengers will board at the front of the train."

No one said you have to have the consists memorized. When you have a sleeper, the car number is written right there on your ticket.

Your proposing that I meander down a crowded narrow platform with people milling about and red caps trying to run people over counting the train cars? At that point you might as well tell people: "Your car is the 12th car down the platform." Oh wait, they already do that.

peter

So basically, clearly marked cars are not necessary because Amtrak already employs several people to guide passengers to the correct trains. I would say that if the trains were clearly marked enough, they would not need to employ people to fill this function. Signs are cheaper than people.

 

[PerRock]

I'll agree that signs are cheaper; but with your proposal either way your employing someone to tell you where to go; because you don't board based on "oh this coach car looks nice" but on where your destination is. Putting "Coach" in big letters on the side is no more helpful then having it in small letters.

I mocked a quick example using Trainz. The two trains are identical and the markings on the car are as accurate as possible (I made them & made sure they were). I made my platforms a bit wider them Amtrak does, and they're not as crowded as platforms can get at CUS. But it'll help serve my point.

I have the 3rd sleeping car, from the end of the platform. Can you tell me which car is mine?



How about which coach car is going to Milwaukee?

peter

 

[seat38a]

Aside from those who are receiving Red Cap assistance, what exactly is the problem with getting on at any open door and then moving towards the appropriate car after you're on board the train?

The SCA don't like that. All those people hanging around outside our sleeper, 90% of them were not sleeper passengers. Those 90% I mentioned also occupied the lounge and did not move once they planted themselves. Also, the SCA made multiple announcements that if you were caught in the sleeper without a sleeper ticket, that they would throw you off the next station (Said in a nice way).

 

[Ryan]

I'll agree that signs are cheaper; but with your proposal eith

I have the 3rd sleeping car, from the end of the platform. Can you tell me which car is mine?

How about which coach car is going to Milwaukee?

peter

Nope. Nor is there any need to. Walk down the platform until you get to your car. If you're in a sleeping car, the car attendants will be standing at the car door letting you know which one is the 812 car and which is the 811 car (I made the numbers up). If you're in coach, the coach attendants will be standing at the doors to let you know which coach is for MKE passengers.

 

[jis]

If we were as well organized as the Europeans we'd have a train layout chart displayed at the entrance to the platform identifying each car with its car number, matching the car number on your reservation, so you'd know before hand where your car is located without being hand held by a live person too.

 

[seat38a]

If we were as well organized as the Europeans we'd have a train layout chart displayed at the entrance to the platform identifying each car with its car number, matching the car number on your reservation, so you'd know before hand where your car is located without being hand held by a live person too.

When we took the TGV at Gare Du Nord, didn't see anything of that sort. Then again, our group was sleep deprived and had way too much cheap french wine. Also, they double park the trains on the platform, so you have to know which train is yours. The one for Amsterdam is at the front, but if your not familiar between the Thalys train and standard TGV, you could get on the train to Lille since it is closer.