Which is better Capitol Limited or Cardinal??

[PVD]

The VL2 will not have the toilet in the room. At this point, with 25 VL2 coming, and 50 VL1, all we have is speculation as to how they will be assigned, and if/when the VL1 are to be rebuilt in the configuration of the VL2.

 

[Bob Dylan]

All that can be predicted is that by that time, if there's still a Card, there will be a Sleeper or Sleepers of some kind on the Card, whether it is an Old VLI with Toilet, a New VLII sans in Room Toilet or a rehabbed VLI sans Toilet or a Combination of the above.

Hopefully the Card will be running daily by then with 2 Sleepers so the Buckets are Low, and the New President, per Amtrak Philly's plan, hasn't killed the Card to re-start the Broadway Ltd. !

 

[PVD]

I'd even take the bag dorm. Every little bit helps!

 

[JoeBas]

I think this is an important point that people are missing. Just because we get VLIIs doesn't mean the VLIs are going *poof* magically and all of a sudden...

 

[railiner]

My guess is they will at some point remove the VL1 toilets...probably sooner than if it was the other way around. It goes with the trend of removing amenities in general (I know... some on this board don't consider roomette toilets an amenity). It would simplify having a standardized consist on a train, as well as having one less item requiring servicing and maintenance...

 

[JoeBas]

Key Word: AT SOME POINT. Basically, it'll be a rotational/overhaul thing that has to be done as they are rebuilt/remodularized. But if you're looking for a 100% IRONCLAD GUARANTEE LOCK OF THE WEEK SURE THING that you won't have a "toilet in your sleeping space", stay out of the Eastern Roomettes until around 2040 (heck, there's still some unreconstructed Superliners rattling around out there).

 

[railiner]

They could also do a "quick fix" job and disable their use in some way, before they are entirely removed during a major overhaul...

 

[PVD]

Removal of the roomette toilet results in one less room for sale per sleeper, so it isn't strictly a nickel and dime remove an amenity move to cut costs. It will hopefully lower maintenance costs and out of service situations, and was the subject of a great deal of back and forth before it was finalized. As a single traveler, I didn't mind the toilet, but there are many folks who are happy to see them go.

 

[JayPea]

It also removes a place for linen storage as our attendant on the Crescent pointed out. He and most other SCA'S on the Eastern trains think the new design of the Viewliners is stupid. I'm sure Amtrak doesn't really care what SCA'S think when it comes to sleeping car design, though.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Excellent point Jeff, there's already isn't enough storage space in Viewliners, but since when does what the field hands think matter to the Masters in the Big House?!!

 

[JoeBas]

They could also do a "quick fix" job and disable their use in some way, before they are entirely removed during a major overhaul...

There's no other bathroom in the VL-I's for roomette folks to use communally. The redesign in the VL-II order will take one of the roomettes and make it a common bathroom, resulting in the loss of a revenue roomette.

 

[jis]

Removal of the roomette toilet results in one less room for sale per sleeper, so it isn't strictly a nickel and dime remove an amenity move to cut costs. It will hopefully lower maintenance costs and out of service situations, and was the subject of a great deal of back and forth before it was finalized. As a single traveler, I didn't mind the toilet, but there are many folks who are happy to see them go.

I believe there was very strong documented feedback from specially the younger passengers, the next generation who will hopefully pay good money to travel in the future, that they hated the toilet in the shared roomette. So it is not just random nickel and diming change.

The interesting modular design of the Viewliner actually makes the insertion of the toilet module near the end of a car a herculean effort instead of just replacing a roomette space with a toilet space in more classical "non-modular" cars.

As for why the linen storage space was taken away, it is not clear. Nothing should have changed in the area where the linen storage space is located.

 

[FormerOBS]

I don't know much about Viewliner I or Viewliner II sleepers, since they aren't in my working experience. But I can say from my experience in Heritage sleepers and Superliner II's that it's idiotic and potentially unsafe to reduce or eliminate storage space for such essentials as linens on a sleeping car. This can force the attendant to store clean and soiled linens in unsecured, unsafe locations, or to store them together, which could potentially create a sanitation issue. If this is true, it sounds like a naive and poorly considered plan hatched by some self-important paper pusher who knows nothing about real efficiency, service delivery, or a good day's work. I hope I am being unnecessarily concerned.

Tom

 

[PVD]

100% agree (for whatever that's worth) with the last 2 posts.

 

[JoeBas]

Back to the original topic, I'm surprised that nobody has suggested SWC/SL/Crescent as the "Best" routing - this IS AU, after all...

 

[MARC Rider]

They could also do a "quick fix" job and disable their use in some way, before they are entirely removed during a major overhaul...

Not exactly a smart move. There are no other toilets in a VL1 sleeper except for the ones in the rooms.

I'll look foward to hearing the complaints on this forum when pax who paid big bux for a sleeper ticket are told they have to use the restrooms in coach.

 

[railiner]

They could also do a "quick fix" job and disable their use in some way, before they are entirely removed during a major overhaul...

Not exactly a smart move. There are no other toilets in a VL1 sleeper except for the ones in the rooms.
I'll look foward to hearing the complaints on this forum when pax who paid big bux for a sleeper ticket are told they have to use the restrooms in coach.

Oops...I hadn't thought of that. Since I've never ridden in any Viewliner, I was not really aware of that...sorry...

 

[PVD]

The bedrooms and the H room each have one, so as long as the roomettes had one in the room, there wasn't any reason to have one.

 

[railiner]

I was thinking back to the heritage sleepers....even though all rooms had their own, wasn't there a public toilet as well....not sure...

 

[zephyr17]

I was thinking back to the heritage sleepers....even though all rooms had their own, wasn't there a public toilet as well....not sure...

Yes, there was in every 10-6 that I ever rode.

 

[railiner]

Yeah, I kind of thought so....so it is surprising that the VL1's do not.

It's amazing when you consider that a 24-8 Slumbercoach had 32 toilets (33 if they had a public one as well)...

 

[PVD]

In many of the old style sleepers many rooms were set up where the toilets were not accessible when the beds were down, the public room was sort of needed.

 

[FormerOBS]

The public one was also needed because dining cars have no public restrooms. People who need to leave the diner to use the restroom must go to the next adjacent car, and this is often a sleeper. Sometimes the lounge car restroom is difficult to access because of other passengers waiting to use it.

Tom

 

[Seaboard92]

And in some cases I've seen conductors tape a sign on the door that said crew use only on the lounge car bathrooms.

 

[Woodcut60]

The Cardinal has not a good reputation in terms of on-time performance. That being said, the scenery through the New River Gorge is spectacular.

If you want railroad history, the Capitol Limited is your train, using tracks of the old B&O (the oldest section of operating railroad in the U.S.) and stopping at the oldest station still in use, Martinsburg, VA.

Actually, the station at Martinsburg is fairly new; but the old station is still intact & quite visible, just to the east. The history is interesting. In the early years, B&O built a station adjacent to a hotel, but the station burned to the ground shortly after construction. B&O moved station activities into the hotel lobby as a temporary measure, but never got around to building a new station, and the hotel lobby continued to serve as the Martinsburg station, well after the birth of Amtrak. Several years ago, a new station was built on the site of the old station, which had burned well over 100 years previously.

As you say, the history of the Capitol Limited's B&O route is quite complex and fascinating.

Tom

Thanks! That was interesting information which I did not know. (I only quoted from my rail guides.)