Which way do seats face on The Vermonter?

[DET63]

The Vermonter is one of the few Amtrak trains that change direction during their trip. Are the passengers allowed to turn their seats around at Palmer, or do those who have been riding forward have to continue their journey facing backward?

On California's Capitol Corridor (and San Joaquins) trains, I believe about half the seats in each car face forward; the other half face backward (similar to many subways, light rail, and commuter trains). This really doesn't matter too much, since the trains don't change direction en route. If the same equipment is used for The Pacific Surfliner trains, then passengers going through Los Angeles will have the opportunity to change seats when the train reverses direction there.

 

[Tony]

I have only road BC on the Vermonter. The seats always faced the snackbar (faced toward the center of the car), and yes, for half of the trip you faced with the direction of travel and for the other half of the trip you faced opposite to the direction of travel.

I never noticed any mass exiting of passengers while they played with the loco so I don't think they flip all the seats around in the coach cars too.

 

[Heading North]

Keystone Service trains are half-forward/half-backward since the train changes directions in Philadelphia. My guess is that the Vermonter would be the same, although I've never taken it.

 

[transit54]

Keystone Service trains are half-forward/half-backward since the train changes directions in Philadelphia. My guess is that the Vermonter would be the same, although I've never taken it.

Yes, coach in the Vermonter is half-forward, half-backward. You are instructed during the Palmer announcement to not rotate the seats.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The Highliners used on the Metra Electric trains serving the South Suburbs of Chicago have fixed seats facing the center of the car. On the upper level, there are single seats in pairs facing each other. The other day, I was going to downtown Chicago and went to the upper level where I found an empty set of the singe seats. This was in the north half of the car, so most of the seats on the lower leve were facing south, or backwards from the direction of travel.

I settled into my seat, facing norhward, the direction of travel. After a few minutes I noticed that every one else occupying the single seats on the upper level were facing the center of car, backwards from the direciton of travel, although they could have easily switch to northward facing seats. I guess after 40 years of riding the Highliners, the Metra Electric passengers have just gotten used to riding backwards occasionally. Or perhaps, it is some kind of behavior that doesn't want to be different from the other passengers. Or maybe a lot of people just don't care about which way they face. I usually like to face forward, but when I have to ride backwards, I find it just doesn't matter. In fact riding backwards offers a different perspective when traveling a familar route.

Amtrak's Hiawatha trains utilize cars that have half the seats facing in one direction, and half in the other.

 

[battalion51]

Unless something strange happens the Vermonter is almost always half and half. There will be rare occasions where a last minute substitution is made and the seats can't be set up the way they normally are just so the train can get out on time.

 

[SCrails]

Unless something strange happens the Vermonter is almost always half and half...

Very interesting! I rode the Vermonter last fall but I stayed in the lounge/BC car the whole way and didn't get to see how the coach cars were set up. That car definitely reversed directions in Palmer. I'd read about the Palmer maneuver and it was fun to experience it firsthand.

That is a beautiful route! We crossed Lake Champlain on the ferry at Burlington and returned south on the Adirondack, which was just as beautiful.

 

[transit54]

Unless something strange happens the Vermonter is almost always half and half. There will be rare occasions where a last minute substitution is made and the seats can't be set up the way they normally are just so the train can get out on time.

Speaking of a last minute substitution, there was a Horizon car sandwiched in the middle of the Vermonter on Jan 11th when I rode it northbound. That was a real surprise! IIRC, all the seats were facing a single way inside it.

 

[oldtimer]

The Highliners used on the Metra Electric trains serving the South Suburbs of Chicago have fixed seats facing the center of the car. On the upper level, there are single seats in pairs facing each other. The other day, I was going to downtown Chicago and went to the upper level where I found an empty set of the singe seats. This was in the north half of the car, so most of the seats on the lower leve were facing south, or backwards from the direction of travel.I settled into my seat, facing norhward, the direction of travel. After a few minutes I noticed that every one else occupying the single seats on the upper level were facing the center of car, backwards from the direciton of travel, although they could have easily switch to northward facing seats. I guess after 40 years of riding the Highliners, the Metra Electric passengers have just gotten used to riding backwards occasionally. Or perhaps, it is some kind of behavior that doesn't want to be different from the other passengers. Or maybe a lot of people just don't care about which way they face. I usually like to face forward, but when I have to ride backwards, I find it just doesn't matter. In fact riding backwards offers a different perspective when traveling a familar route.

Amtrak's Hiawatha trains utilize cars that have half the seats facing in one direction, and half in the other.

On October 30th 1972 I was to work my normal assignment, which was the "Panama Limited". I was told the Panama wouldn't be going out today because of a wreck. I was reassigned and heard about the disaster from a switchman that had just came to work.

per Wikipedia:

"1972 collision

The worst rail accident in Chicago history, the Illinois Central Gulf commuter rail crash, occurred on October 30, 1972. A new lightweight bi-level commuter train inbound to Chicago during the morning rush hour overshot the 27th Street platform and backed up into the station. The bi-level train had already tripped the signals to green for the next train, an older, heavy steel single-level train. As the bi-level train was backing up at 11 miles per hour (18 km/h), it was struck by the single-level express train at full speed. The single-level train telescoped the lightweight bi-level train killing 45 passengers and injuring hundreds, primarily in the bi-level train. A major contributing factor was that the Illinois Central Railroad used a dark gray color scheme, including the ends of rail cars, that was very difficult to see on the cloudy morning of the accident. After the accident the ends of all commuter rail cars and locomotives in the Chicago area were painted with orange and white stripes for better visibility."

After this occurred the commuters on what is now Metra Electric as a group seemed to want to ride backward as they felt safer in a collision. This mindset has carried over for years.

 

[battalion51]

Unless something strange happens the Vermonter is almost always half and half. There will be rare occasions where a last minute substitution is made and the seats can't be set up the way they normally are just so the train can get out on time.

Speaking of a last minute substitution, there was a Horizon car sandwiched in the middle of the Vermonter on Jan 11th when I rode it northbound. That was a real surprise! IIRC, all the seats were facing a single way inside it.

We discussed this in another topic a couple of days ago. After many years of begging they finally put a Horizon onto the Vermonter. With the bitter cold winters the doors have trouble opening in the frigid Vermont cold. Since some of the Horizons have the manual dutch doors as opposed to the all automatics on the Amfleet I's they are assured they can always have a usable door thanks to the Horizon.

 

[Guest]

OK, I'll ask. What exactly is a "Horizon car" ?? Coach seating? BC/FC seating? A full-service dining? A sleeper? Baggage? Crew dorm?

 

[jis]

OK, I'll ask. What exactly is a "Horizon car" ?? Coach seating? BC/FC seating? A full-service dining? A sleeper? Baggage? Crew dorm?

Horizons are Amtrak's rendition of the Comet commuter cars. They come in both Coach and Lounge/Cafe/Dinette forms AFAIR. Of course I willbe corrected as soon as I post this I am sure

 

[AlanB]

They also have Horizon business class/cafe cars.

 

[battalion51]

OK, I'll ask. What exactly is a "Horizon car" ?? Coach seating? BC/FC seating? A full-service dining? A sleeper? Baggage? Crew dorm?

Horizon Coach:

Horizon Cafe:

 

[colobok]

Unless something strange happens the Vermonter is almost always half and half...

Very interesting! I rode the Vermonter last fall but I stayed in the lounge/BC car the whole way and didn't get to see how the coach cars were set up. That car definitely reversed directions in Palmer. I'd read about the Palmer maneuver and it was fun to experience it firsthand.

That is a beautiful route! We crossed Lake Champlain on the ferry at Burlington and returned south on the Adirondack, which was just as beautiful.

How did you cross the Lake Champlain? Is there any public transportation there? I would like to do the same, but I couldn't figure out how to get from Burlington to Plattsburgh.

Also - is it worth to go Vermonter route till the very end (to St.Albans)? I mean is there anything interesting to see between Burlington and St.Albans?

 

[SCrails]

How did you cross the Lake Champlain?

In summer and fall the Lake Champlain ferry can take you from Burlington to Port Kent, where there's a train stop (a shelter, not exactly a station). The ferry stops operating mid-October, though.

Warning: the published ferry schedule made it look like both of its morning trips would let us meet the train, but the second trip was too close to make it. We actually crossed on the second ferry and got lucky only because the train was delayed that day! Otherwise, we'd have been sitting in the rain wondering where we would camp out for 24 hours until the next day's train. I like adventure, but that's a bit over the top for me...unless I happened to pack camping gear.

The ferry terminal does have a cafe where passengers can wait for the train, which stops a couple of blocks away.

I have not ridden the Vermonter past Essex Junction and don't know what the route to St. Albans is like. Maybe someone else has done.

 

[colobok]

How did you cross the Lake Champlain?

In summer and fall the Lake Champlain ferry can take you from Burlington to Port Kent, where there's a train stop (a shelter, not exactly a station). The ferry stops operating mid-October, though.

Warning: the published ferry schedule made it look like both of its morning trips would let us meet the train, but the second trip was too close to make it. We actually crossed on the second ferry and got lucky only because the train was delayed that day! Otherwise, we'd have been sitting in the rain wondering where we would camp out for 24 hours until the next day's train. I like adventure, but that's a bit over the top for me...unless I happened to pack camping gear.

The ferry terminal does have a cafe where passengers can wait for the train, which stops a couple of blocks away.

I have not ridden the Vermonter past Essex Junction and don't know what the route to St. Albans is like. Maybe someone else has done.

So I can easily walk from the ferry to the train station in Port Kent?

How did you get to the ferry in Burlington?

 

[transit54]

So I can easily walk from the ferry to the train station in Port Kent?How did you get to the ferry in Burlington?

Yes, takes five minutes at most. It's a few hundred feet away, right up the hill. I've done it several times.

To get the ferry to Burlington, walk down the hill from the train station, buy a ferry ticket and get on the ferry. It takes an hour to cross the lake.

Times and fares at www.ferries.com

 

[transit54]

Also - is it worth to go Vermonter route till the very end (to St.Albans)? I mean is there anything interesting to see between Burlington and St.Albans?

Nope, nothing at all. It's pretty empty up there. I haven't taken that stretch, but I cycled along the route and it roughly parallels I-89. Northbound it will be pitch-black pretty much the whole year anyway. I highly recommend getting off in Essex Jct. Usually only 2-3 people continue to St Albans each day.

 

[jis]

Usually only 2-3 people continue to St Albans each day.

I can vouch for that. The day I went to St. Albans there were exactly two passengers who went all the way and one of them was me. We shared a cab with the train crew to the hotel

 

[SCrails]

How did you get to the ferry in Burlington?

Times and fares at www.ferries.com

In Burlington, the ferry terminal is on King Street at the lakefront.

 

[colobok]

How did you get to the ferry in Burlington?

Times and fares at www.ferries.com

In Burlington, the ferry terminal is on King Street at the lakefront.

How far is it from the train station?

Is there any transportation?

 

[transit54]

How far is it from the train station?Is there any transportation?

From which train station?

I assume you mean the Essex Jct (Vermonter) station? If so, it's about 7 miles. Monday-Saturday you can take the #2 Essex Jct bus there for $1.25.

 

[DET63]

Also - is it worth to go Vermonter route till the very end (to St.Albans)? I mean is there anything interesting to see between Burlington and St.Albans?

Nope, nothing at all. It's pretty empty up there. I haven't taken that stretch, but I cycled along the route and it roughly parallels I-89. Northbound it will be pitch-black pretty much the whole year anyway. I highly recommend getting off in Essex Jct. Usually only 2-3 people continue to St Albans each day.

Anybody ever take a trip from St. Albans to Emeryville? That would be a Podunk-to-Podunk trip if there ever was one. (Of course, Emeryville really isn't a "Podunk"; it's all but surrounded by Oakland [though Gertrude Stein described as Oakland with the memorable "there isn't any there there"].)

I'm sure that if the_traveler hasn't made this trip yet, it's in the planning.

 

[battalion51]

The run from SAB to Essex Jct itself is pretty boring. You do get up to a decent clip for a large part of the segment, but scenery wise there isn't much. Although IIRC one of the best sunsets I've ever seen was just north of Essex. It's been over four years ago though so I don't exactly remember.