Why only one Auto Train exists in USA?

[looshi]

But did it recover all of its cost, like a real company, not only operating costs but cost of equipment, interests and all true operating cost. These ere the expenses that ultimately did in a-t.

In theory that is what the fully allocated cost number means. It includes overhead and equipment depreciation.

 

[FormerOBS]

Why only one auto train route in the us. Like all private rail service ( and Amtrak auto train) it doesn't turn a profit. Even before the original a- t the b& o experimented with providing a auto train type service with the owners cars handled on freight trains. This service also did little stop the decline in rail traffic.

I wonder how popular auto train would be today if it ticket prices actually reflected the true cost of the service.

With that said I did ride both at original routes. It was truly a great service with a wonderful collection of passenger cars. They even use neat little Baldwin switchers at both its Sanford and Morton terminals.

Actually, the automobiles were handled in a single auto carrier on the rear of the westbound and eastbound "Shenandoah", B&O trains 7 & 8. I saw it running in the 1960's.

The service didn't last too long.

Tom

P.S.: Wrong quote. This was supposed to quote erierail's comments about B&O's service.

 

[erierail]

Thanks for the correction. It was an innovating concept that might have laid the foundations for the purple, red and white at of 1971.

 

[jis]

But did it recover all of its cost, like a real company, not only operating costs but cost of equipment, interests and all true operating cost. These ere the expenses that ultimately did in a-t.

Fully allocated cost means it includes everything and then some, since Amtrak loads up HQ cost into the fully allocated cost too, which includes stuff that has nothing to do with the Auto Train at all.

BTW, the Lorton - Sanford Auto Train was never really in financial trouble in and of itself. What did the Auto Train company in was its attempt to expand to the Midwest service. They were unable to disentangle themselves from it before it did them in. The Lorton - Sanford service actually delayed the inevitable some. But had the Auto Train company been able to discontinue the Midwest experiment much earlier, they might yet have survived.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I guess my computer/browser ate my reply yesterday. It seems to be that if and when another autotrain were started along another route, the route it would take would have already gotten improvements to make the service viable. My thinking here, and it's rather a random wag, is that it would be viable from the Midwest to Florida, Arizona (snowbirds! and cross country drivers) and somewhere further north in the west, such as Denver. I doubt a cross country service would be, but perhaps a connection could be offered. I've know people in Europe taking it to skip the drive over the alps and the length of Germany, though I understand those services have been cut lately.

The terminals would be key, though. I really think Louisville is too far for Chicagoans to drive to take a train, once we're there, may as well drive the rest of the way, but Indy would work plus it's relatively easy from Michigan and Ohio as well. For the westbound somewhere in or around Chicago (not off Roosevelt Road which is now a parking lot) would probably work. If the schedule could work with an evening departure from Chicago and late morning to early afternoon arrival in Denver, you'd skip a long drive and be a lot closer to both the west coast and numerous driving destinations. Perhaps one could arrive and check in mid-afternoon and eat onboard before departure with that being after rush hour to allow people to board after work.

The bigger problem is that some of these services might be too seasonal tourist to work well.

I would certainly take a service west, skipping the great plains to arrive in the mountains with a car full of camping and hiking gear that can't easily go via plane or train - Chicago is just to far from the mountains in the west to make the drive convenient, but being able to skip a day and a half of driving and a night in a motel it would be fantastic to wake up fresh and be more or less at the destination.

 

[FormerOBS]

I once had a conversation with an Amtrak Marketing guy who was trying to figure out how to implement a service using the Southwest Chief. This guy was traveling in my sleeper, and the trip was light enough that we had time to talk. We agreed that it would be impractical to expect people to drive into the heart of Chicago for the service. A loading location like Joliet made more sense. It should be someplace accessible to the Interstates.

The tentative plan called for the auto carriers to be dropped in Flagstaff. If they had been taken all the way to L.A., that would have seriously limited the destination options. By dropping the carriers in Flagstaff, travelers would have fairly direct access to the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Phoenix, or Tucson. Flagstaff would also be a reasonable starting point for California destinations.

But look at the schedule: Arrival in Flagstaff is in the evening; later if the train is delayed. The ideal is for people to wake up after a night sleeping on the train, then get in their cars and drive in daylight. This schedule means people would arrive in Flagstaff just in time to find a motel and sleep. I don't know the situation now, but Flagstaff had barely enough motel rooms then. They would have been in short supply for additional travelers from the train.

It was suggested that the auto carriers could continue down the Peavine to Phoenix on a new connecting train. This would allow for a morning arrival, but would mean the expense and equipment needed to instate a new train on that route. Would Santa Fe (now BNSF) cooperate? Travelers for the Grand Canyon or Las Vegas would be taken farther from their destination. Travelers who want to drive to Southern California would not benefit at all in terms of mileage; in fact, they would have to pay extra for the additional rail mileage.

Traveling in the eastbound direction would entail similar problems.

As I said, the current Auto Train represents a perfect storm of route, distance, scheduling, cost, geography, and demographics. You'll have a hard time finding a route that has similar characteristics ---- anywhere, ever.

Tom

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I really think it would need to be a standalone train with good arrival and departure times. Flagstaff would work well for Grand Canyon bound tourists, but less well for snowbirds. And believe me, there are a lot of ex-Chicagoans in Arizona, as well as tourists (visiting relatives in Sun City, etc, spring training fans, Sedona, etc) but not like Florida. Joliet would work well since it it's easy for Ohio, Michigan and Indiana motorists to get to, the rest of us can handle the expressways (and Wisconsinites can zip down on the tollway, zipping being relative).

Somewhat off topic, I'm reminded of a street corner with a lovely older woman who said "well, in those days we could take the train to go skiing in Wisconsin..." Unlike my parents who drove a rental car to Wisconsin on their honeymoon in December and their foreign rental broke down in a snowstorm somewhere up north (rentals apparently often used European cars back then and since they were on their honeymoon, I don't think they minded too much....).

 

[FormerOBS]

A stand alone train: Now you're talking about adding a train, when the freight roads don't like operating the ones they've already got. Good luck.

And I've tried to work out a workable schedule for a stand alone Auto Train, Chicagoland to Flagstaff. Good luck on that, too.

Tom

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

A stand alone train: Now you're talking about adding a train, when the freight roads don't like operating the ones they've already got. Good luck.

And I've tried to work out a workable schedule for a stand alone Auto Train, Chicagoland to Flagstaff. Good luck on that, too.

Tom

As I said, this would only happen under the aegis of a freight company or if money was available for rail improvements from the federal government. I don't see this happening, so it's a fun pursuit in wishful thinking.

 

[jis]

And it won't happen under the aegis of a freight company because there is not enough margin in such an operation for them to bother with it.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

As I said, the current Auto Train represents a perfect storm of route, distance, scheduling, cost, geography, and demographics. You'll have a hard time finding a route that has similar characteristics ---- anywhere, ever.

I agree, and emphasize that you need a pool of potential passengers who, at least perceive, a strong need to bring their own personal auto along with them.

Florida was perceived by the working class of the North East cities, as being a "near by" and thus a financially obtainable vacation spot. Taking your own car along, made it seem like Florida was within an easy day-trip.

 

[jis]

Florida is considered to be more of a hibernating spot, in addition to a short vacation spot. It is actually the so called "Snow Birds" that provide the bread and butter for the Auto Train, very handsomely augmented by the short term visitors to the abode of the famous Mouse and Duck and the beaches and inland springs of Central Florida both east and west coast.

 

[greatcats]

Tom- I nominate you for next President of Amtrak and you are hereby called out of retirement ! ( joke). Running an Auto Train to Flagstaff? Yes, the times of the schedule are bad for such an idea. I can just see switching those cars in the middle of town with all those freights! So route it down the Peavine? Ha! What a fantasy!

 

[FormerOBS]

And it won't happen under the aegis of a freight company because there is not enough margin in such an operation for them to bother with it.

Exactly.

Tom

 

[FormerOBS]

Call me out of retirement for that thankless job? That's an "honor" I can do without. You'll have to find me first, and I know some pretty good hiding places. The answer is not "No." The answer is "HELL NO!"

(I stole that line from a friend.)

I'm one of the many people who think of Don Phillips as a pretty good analyst. He has some good ideas on the subject of Amtrak's next President. He presented some in the most recent issue of Trains Magazine (June) and in the last issue (May).

Tom

 

[Alexandria Nick]

Considering that one can already ship ones car across for extended stays, how many people actually do it for what it costs?

I've known quite a few people that have paid the truck to ship cars across country (mainly military). Not a whole lot, but more than I'd have thought. Ten years ago, the mall I worked in was the early Sunday morning jumping off point for a guy doing Pittsburgh-Tampa runs. He got enough business that he was out there every other week! Its almost too bad the numbers don't work for a company owning a few autoracks running in manifest freights.

 

[erierail]

The lorton to Sanford run was an ideal run. Connecting the northeast with central Florida. Their was a large pro rail passenger pool ( the scl ) ran quality trains right up until Amtrak day ( may 1 1971).

Florida was having the beginning of another real estate boon and the Disney company just open Disney world. The untimely death of at, its expansion to Louisville was because of two factors. The trip was too long compared to the easy 14 hour east coast run. Also airline deregulation was just beginning with at competing against upstart airlines offering ridiculously low fares. Long live the red purple and white auto train corporation.