Wi/Fi and Auto Train

[Hanno]

Is Wi/Fi available on the Auto Train? If so is it everywhere or just in certain cars, like the lounge car?

Thanks!

 

[MrEd]

Amtrak.com shows it is not available on this train.

 

[Dovecote]

The lounge car had WiFi on my last AT trip this past September.

 

[I always rode the Southern]

I don't understand their policy yet. Had it off and on for my October RT. Some attendants keep it on.

some turn it on only when asked, and turn it off/leave it off when there is no lap top visible.

I do know that some users were able to get on, some not. I was able to and finally figured out why I could and the others couldn't get on. I was the only one who had been using my lap top in the station and the others hadn't. Yes, I know it doesn't make sense. :help:

 

[xyzzy]

Even if it's on in the car, there's no guarantee that there is wireless connectivity from the train to a base station operated by a mobile carrier. The AT traverses territory that in some places has little or no wireless coverage.

 

[AlanB]

There is no policy. The equipment was installed to test the viability of the system on the Auto Train. The test was a failure and Amtrak went back to the drawing board to try to find another, affordable way to get wireless on the AT.

They simply didn't remove the test equipment from the cafe cars, so some attendants it would seem turn the system on while others don't. But officially, there is NO wireless service on the Auto Train.

 

[dlagrua]

The only easy way to get internet conductivity and WiFi on the Autotrain would be via satellite. The problem is that this would provide the service in only one car. If you wanted to have service in the other cars then you will need to set up a system of repeaters as they use in hotels. That adds a significant cost to the project.

Last time we were on the Autotrain we used our own 4G cell service as a wireless hotspot for our laptop. In some areas only 2G service is available. Many rural areas of the Southern states still exist as "dark territory" and you are cut off for extended periods.

IMO, satellite WiFi service on the long distance trains would be a convenience and a strong selling point. .

 

[xyzzy]

The "link budget" on most bidirectional data-over-satellite services requires a dish antenna that must be aimed directly at the satellite. This isn't practical on a train. It is possible to do it without a dish antenna, but it's expensive and slow.

 

[Hanno]

Thanks for the information. I know there are many "dark" areas and was just curious if wi-fi would help solve this problem.

Again thanks!

 

[Ryan]

The "link budget" on most bidirectional data-over-satellite services requires a dish antenna that must be aimed directly at the satellite. This isn't practical on a train. It is possible to do it without a dish antenna, but it's expensive and slow.

If you can do it on an airplane, you can do it on a train.

 

[xyzzy]

If you can do it on an airplane, you can do it on a train.

It's not that simple. An antenna mounted topside on an aircraft at FL350 has nothing but blue sky above it. An antenna mounted topside in a rail car will intermittently be blocked by bridges, adjacent buildings (the satellite is not directly overhead), tunnels and cuts, etc. Every db of margin counts, and when you give away 3 to 10 db to obstructions there is an impact on performance -- not just at the PHY layer, but at the higher layers because of error recoveries in the protocols.

 

[dlagrua]

Internet connectivity on a train should not be that hard. Its true that satellite communications would not work in tunnels or near high buildings but those structures are typically in or near the large cities where there is 4G service and a simple switch over can be done. As for bridges, they are few and the service interruptions would be very minimal. If you examine many of Amtraks LD routes, especially those heading West, the majority of the trip is done in wide open areas offering line of sight, where satellite communications will work. Mobile satellite communication antennas are also built with a signal finding feature that directs it towards the signal source..

 

[xyzzy]

Been in the telecom business for 31 years, including satellite-based transmission services. Can you make it work some of the time? Sure. Can you make it work all of the time? No. What is the quality of service in between? Depends on the locale. California Zephyr through Iowa and eastern Colorado? Easy. Through western Colorado? Forget it. What is the cost? Non-negligible. Electronics on railroad equipment is vibrated to death, with significant shock. There are voltage transients with HEP. It's an unforgiving environment; VHF radios in locomotives are built like tanks. Even the European railroads and JR struggle to make passenger WiFi work.

 

[afigg]

Internet connectivity on a train should not be that hard. Its true that satellite communications would not work in tunnels or near high buildings but those structures are typically in or near the large cities where there is 4G service and a simple switch over can be done. As for bridges, they are few and the service interruptions would be very minimal. If you examine many of Amtraks LD routes, especially those heading West, the majority of the trip is done in wide open areas offering line of sight, where satellite communications will work. Mobile satellite communication antennas are also built with a signal finding feature that directs it towards the signal source..

It is that difficult. The obstructions are not just tunnels or high buildings, but also trees, hills, terrain. If the railroad tracks are following a river valley with trees on either side, satellite signals will be seriously degraded or blocked entirely. Satellite communications need a clear line of sight to work. Trees are a killer for a Ka or Ku band satellite communications link. Yes, there are portions of routes that are across the open plains or desert that could work, but how would that be different than installing a 3G/4G system that works only a part of the time? Ok, Amtrak could install both, but even a 3G/4G system is a strain on their capital budget given that Amtrak annual federal funding has been dropping since FY2010.

I think Amtrak should consider installing 3G/4G systems on all the LD trains if the FY2014 capital grant funding is comfortably higher than FY13. But once installed and operational, provide full warning to passengers that there will be stretches with very slow or no communications during the trip.

 

[Relations_CPA]

I think Amtrak should consider installing 3G/4G systems on all the LD trains if the FY2014 capital grant funding is comfortably higher than FY13. But once installed and operational, provide full warning to passengers that there will be stretches with very slow or no communications during the trip.

As before, Amtrak would require that adding WiFi to all LD trains would require more tickets being sold that are directly linkable to the WiFi being available. In other words, a sound business case and justification.

Just how many additional LD Amtrak trips would you commit to make each year, if WiFi was available?

 

[battalion51]

At the end of the day it really comes down to supply, demand, and market conditions. In the Northeast, Amtrak faces stiff competition from the airlines and bus services, both of which offer wi-fi. In that market the market conditions dictate that you need the wi-fi to maintain current customers and to attract new customers. The same conditions exist for many of the other short distance services like Hiawatha, Pacific Surfliner, and Cascades. However, in the long distance market you've generally got a different clientele than you do on the Regional services. Would there be a group of passengers that use the wi-fi if it were available? Sure. But the number of passengers choosing alternative methods of transportation and taking their business elsewhere is not yet strong enough that it is an issue.

Additionally, I'd be willing to guess that the leisure traveler is going to be trending toward their devices for entertainment more than for business purposes. The devices to be connected are far more likely to be tablets and cell phones than they are laptops. Most of the tablets being produced today are having internet connectivity via cell service, so even without the wi-fi the passenger will be able to connect in most of the same locations as they could if the train had wi-fi. Laptops that connect via connect cards for the road warrior travelers also would still get service, and those folks probably wouldn't use the wi-fi anyway since they most likely need a secure connection, and their connect card is more secure than being on a public wi-fi network.

 

[b243923]

If the equipment is already installed in the lounge, why would it not be turned on at all times. They can put up a sign stating wifi is available but on a interminent basis and they cannot guarantee consistent connections.

 

[AlanB]

If the equipment is already installed in the lounge, why would it not be turned on at all times. They can put up a sign stating wifi is available but on a interminent basis and they cannot guarantee consistent connections.

Because the test is over. The equipment just hasn't been removed yet, but I suspect that it shouldn't even be turned on. Amtrak isn't supporting it, but I'm guessing that a few staffers turn it back on.

As for signs, there will always be those who don't read them and then cause trouble when it doesn't work.