Winter season LD cutbacks

[SteveSFL]

Since the Zephyr and Chief are going to lose the baggage car and transition sleeper, do you think they will put the regular sleepers on the rear, and stick the coaches up front? Not an issue for me either way, but I understand many people like the sleepers on the rear.

That is a good question because with both the Trans and Bag gone, that would put Rooms right up to the Engine which will be a bit too close with the exhaust venting problems and noise.

My next trip is SEA-SAC-CHI-NOL on January 18th. I'm assuming none of my accommodations should change (I booked several months ago). But I would rather be on the back since I've ridden in a regular Superliner sleeper directly begind a loco+baggage car and I definitely smelled the exhaust.

 

[NativeSon5859]

I'm doing the exact same routing in reverse on the 24th. I decided to call and make sure I'd be in the sleeper next to the diner on the CZ. That's not nearly as bad as being right next to the engine.

 

[Blackwolf]

Its most interesting to me that the Superliner trains are largely loosing their bag cars during this winter period. I wonder if the heritage bags really are that bad off, and if Amtrak is really hoping new Viewliner bags will be available to re-equip the Superliner routes in the Spring.

 

[jis]

28 cars will definitely be available well before spring.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm doing the exact same routing in reverse on the 24th. I decided to call and make sure I'd be in the sleeper next to the diner on the CZ. That's not nearly as bad as being right next to the engine.

The Sleepers on the CZ are on the back so you'll be in the Sleeper next to the Diner with another one behind you, plus any PVs that might be on the train!

 

[Agent]

The sleeping cars on the California Zephyr have been moved to the front.

 

[George K]

The sleeping cars on the California Zephyr have been moved to the front.

What's the rationale for putting sleepers (or coaches, for that matter) in one position vs. another? I understand routes like the Empire Builder, where the train is split into two. But on a LD train, what's the point?

 

[RailHistorian]

The sleeping cars on the California Zephyr have been moved to the front.

What's the rationale for putting sleepers (or coaches, for that matter) in one position vs. another? I understand routes like the Empire Builder, where the train is split into two. But on a LD train, what's the point?

Traditionally sleepers were on the rear, farther away from the engine, and with access to an observation car. But it often depended on switching needs: the Santa Fe Chief, #19, for example dropped coaches to Dallas and Tulsa in Kansas City, so the coaches were on the rear for switching convenience. Today it really makes no difference, but vestiges of the old system remains.

 

[inthegauge]

Sleepers on the Zephyr had been moved to the headend, but will return to rear-of-train placement with the introduction of the shortened consists.

 

[Skim]

I'm concerned this could mean more seatmates on the LD trains, where it's preferable to have both seats in order to sleep well. For some of us, sitting next to someone for hours on end is also draining. Not as much as driving, but enough. Some of us just need our space and don't have hundreds or thousands to blow on sleepers.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm concerned this could mean more seatmates on the LD trains, where it's preferable to have both seats in order to sleep well. For some of us, sitting next to someone for hours on end is also draining. Not as much as driving, but enough. Some of us just need our space and don't have hundreds or thousands to blow on sleepers.

Usually in the Winter the LD Trains are Less Crowded and the Buckets are Lower! Booking a Roomette gets you a Low Bucket Rail Fare, a Private Room and Meals plus access to Lounges in the Starions that have them!

You can use amsnag.net ( developed by Paul M., one of our members) to check fares and room charges for 30 days @ a time and up to 11 months on advance! Very handy tool and if you're flexible in your dates you can save up to hundreds of dollars!

You can also use AGR Points to book trips which take the same number of points no matter what the trip costs on the days you want to travel!

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Sleepers on the Zephyr had been moved to the headend, but will return to rear-of-train placement with the introduction of the shortened consists.

Can this be confirmed? I'm traveling on CZ 6 January 22 in roomette EMY to CHI in car 0631. If at the front I assume I will be next to the engine with no separation.

 

[Train2104]

What is the bag-coach ordinarily used for on a train with baggage car? Overflow?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

There is not much factual basis for most of the moaning, but there is a sort of perverse entertainment in it all I suppose.

Nor is there much factual basis for most of the pacification. I'm still not sure which side is more desperate. The folks who think the sky might be falling or the folks who think Amtrak has some sort of guardian angel that will protect it from future cutbacks.

 

[andersone]

Back before dirt there was a time when the Zephyr was split in SLC - the wind went south and the pioneer north,,,,

if I can remember correctly that far back with that consist the SFC sleepers were at the head end right behind the bag,, then two coaches, diner. lounge, dessert wind sleeper, coach, pioneer sleeper coach

 

[jis]

There is not much factual basis for most of the moaning, but there is a sort of perverse entertainment in it all I suppose.

Nor is there much factual basis for most of the pacification. I'm still not sure which side is more desperate. The folks who think the sky might be falling or the folks who think Amtrak has some sort of guardian angel that will protect it from future cutbacks.

Well there are specific issues of concern that do have factual basis. Unfortunately those are not the ones discussed. Basically issues of Boardman's hairstyle is of greater concern figurative speaking, than the real budgetary factual concerns. For the latter it is all the fault of the NEC of course.

 

[NorthShore]

I'm concerned this could mean more seatmates on the LD trains, where it's preferable to have both seats in order to sleep well. For some of us, sitting next to someone for hours on end is also draining. Not as much as driving, but enough. Some of us just need our space and don't have hundreds or thousands to blow on sleepers.

My thoughts, exactly. And air fares beat low bucket roomettes. All the more reason to NOT take train trips. I view these cutbacks as bad press and disincentive to long distance/overnight travel. More and more, Amtrak is losing this rail advocate.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

I don't ever remember the private railroads cutting cars on Florida bound trains in the winter months even after the holidays. In fact, they would add cars. I lived across the highway from where the Southwind ran in Sellersburg, Indiana in late 1965 and 1966 when the trains was very well patronized. I used to track the number of cars when I would see it go through. In the winter months, it usually had a full capacity of 18 cars. Often times, in winter there were cars borrowed from other railroads. The Northern Pacific Lounge in the Sky Dome Sleeping car was standard from mid December until the end of April. In the off season summer months from May through September the Southwind usually had 11 revenue cars. I also know the New York-Florida trains added lots of cars in the winter months, but unfortunately, that market has somewhat evaporated under Amtrak.

In the "good ol days" at least until the mid 1950s there were lot of extra trains running to Florida from the East Coast as well as Chicago. As Bill Haithcoat would almost certainly point out if you look at an Official Railway Guide from January vs July there is a noticeable difference in thickness because of all the extra trains running South in the winter.

 

[EB_OBS]

The Seattle section of the Empire Builder currently runs with a baggage car and a bag-coach? That seems odd.

When I started with Amtrak the EB Seattle section always had two regular 34000 series coach cars. Only occasionally did a 31000 coach-bag end up there.

The last few years though it's become almost standard.

It sucks because even though there were two lower levels, only 12 seats were in inventory, so there was always ample room for passengers who needed to sit in lower level but weren't ticketed for it.

 

[neroden]

Worthy of note: this is part of a more general trend towards variable consists on Amtrak. When I rode #49 on Monday, it had *five* coaches from New York rather than the usual 4.

So I wouldn't read too much into the specific details. If a particular weekend is selling out, expect to see the coaches jump back on for that weekend.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If a particular weekend is selling out, expect to see the coaches jump back on for that weekend.

How does that work? People buy up all the seats. The next customer is told the train is sold out. Is there some way for the prospective customer to indicate they still want that date? Does someone at Amtrak review the sales numbers and go back and reopen the train for further sales? Or has Amtrak reached the point where they're routinely overselling trains by the carload?

 

[keelhauled]

I'm concerned this could mean more seatmates on the LD trains, where it's preferable to have both seats in order to sleep well. For some of us, sitting next to someone for hours on end is also draining. Not as much as driving, but enough. Some of us just need our space and don't have hundreds or thousands to blow on sleepers.

It's public transportation. Surely this possibility is to be expected?

 

[MARC Rider]

I'm concerned this could mean more seatmates on the LD trains, where it's preferable to have both seats in order to sleep well. For some of us, sitting next to someone for hours on end is also draining. Not as much as driving, but enough. Some of us just need our space and don't have hundreds or thousands to blow on sleepers.

My thoughts, exactly. And air fares beat low bucket roomettes. All the more reason to NOT take train trips. I view these cutbacks as bad press and disincentive to long distance/overnight travel. More and more, Amtrak is losing this rail advocate.

The last time I rode coach on an overnight trip, about 3 years ago, was over Presidents' day weekend on the Silver Star. Coach fare from Baltimore to Tampa was over $200 one way, definitely more than airfare. The reason I rode coach was that no roomettes were available. Of course, I had a seatmate, at least between Baltimore and Orlando. It wasn't as bad as all that, the only real problem was that I had a window seat, and I was reluctant to have to climb over my seatmate to use the restroom. Furthermore, if you are traveling with a friend/spouse/ etc., having a seatmate is not such a problem.

My point is that despite the high fares and the likelihood of having a seatmate, the train was packed, in coach as well as the sleepers. Remember, from Amtrak's point of view, the fuller the train, the better.

 

[neroden]

If a particular weekend is selling out, expect to see the coaches jump back on for that weekend.

How does that work? People buy up all the seats. The next customer is told the train is sold out. Is there some way for the prospective customer to indicate they still want that date? Does someone at Amtrak review the sales numbers and go back and reopen the train for further sales?

Yes, in a word. I've actually seen this happen on busy weekends -- train "sold out" well in advance, then bookings reopen a few days as Amtrak enlarges the planned consist to add a car.

Obviously this only works when people are booking well in advance. Amtrak can't do it with, say, 5 hours notice, but with a week's notice, it certainly appears that it is possible. I'm not sure how many days notice Amtrak actually requires to add cars.

 

[chakk]

I'm concerned this could mean more seatmates on the LD trains, where it's preferable to have both seats in order to sleep well. For some of us, sitting next to someone for hours on end is also draining. Not as much as driving, but enough. Some of us just need our space and don't have hundreds or thousands to blow on sleepers.

It's public transportation. Surely this possibility is to be expected?

I have seen a couple instances traveling in coach LD on the CZ where a single passenger purchased two coach fares so that she would not have to share her seat. It was still cheaper than a roomette.