Winter storm related delays and cancellations Winter 2022-2023

[zephyr17]

That is the other thing. Long welded rails would tend to pull apart and fracture under extreme low temperatures. And undetected that would cause a derailment starnding the train in life threatening situation for an extended period. Depending on the nature of the derailment the engine may or may not be able to deliver HEP potentially causing an even more life threatening situation.

Many years ago I was on the first Empire Builder through after a blizzard. I heard over the scanner that BNSF was sending a hi-rail ahead of us as a pilot car to check for broken rails.

 

[jis]

Many years ago I was on the first Empire Builder through after a blizzard. I heard over the scanner that BNSF was sending a hi-rail ahead of us as a pilot car to check for broken rails.

Yep they have to do that and the train will be many hours late leading to cancellation of a subsequent service due to equipment unavailability. Better to plan for it than blindly walk into it.

 

[Qapla]

Sounds like having the "old-fashioned" split-rails could be a better idea.

 

[Rasputin]

Maybe Amtrak should operate some trains only in the summer.

 

[oregon pioneer]

I am remembering more from last year than just that stuck train on Stevens Pass. I was reserved on an eastbound EB that week, and it was many days before they ran through again. I ended up heading out on the CZ and getting to my destination, but meanwhile...

Most of the EB equipment ended up on the west coast, as two trainsets were already west of Montana when they closed all the Cascade passes. A third trainset made it through Montana westbound, and then they closed Marias Pass. They didn't have much equipment left in CHI. I think when they finally got them running eastbound, they ended up deadheading one trainset back to CHI, or maybe running it in tandem with another (I can't remember that part), just to get the equipment back.

Marias pass closed during the blizzard, and again a couple days later because it warmed up, and all the unconsolidated snow (just like we have now) slid onto the tracks. It is supposed to warm up in Montana about Sunday or Monday...

I expect more closures as the weather warms up, because they will have snow slides. BNSF may have said, we are going to have a mess, we don't want passenger trains to be part of it.

And BTW, this might happen once a year for a week, and many years it never happens at all. I have taken many an EB train in the winter, and freight traffic runs on the hi-line all winter long. To suggest cancelling all the trains all winter is like saying people shouldn't live where it snows. Should they cancel all Amtrak trains in Florida during hurricane season, or all trains across the Midwest during tornado season?

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

In regard to the "all-weather" mode, one of the modern problems that works against that is home locations for employees. In the old days of Railroad Magazine stories, employees could walk in snow a few blocks to the yard or station. Now they are more likely to be scattered all over the area. So, we end up with a train that could proceed, but no crew.

I think this is an accurate observation and reminds me me of an article I came across the other day (no link) that talked about rates of walking to work, NYC, Chicago, etc, had rates of 3/4% (5+% in NYC) irc who walked to work, but the highest rates were in college towns (nearly 10% in one or two but mostly 6/7% - two of those cities in Indiana, one with Amtrak service...). It led to discussion about non-college small towns and my assumption (wonder if there is data, too lazy to look) that in towns w/o a single large employer people who lived in them worked in towns further afield from place of residence, hence drove.

 

[Rasputin]

Related to the same weather system which has canceled the Empire Builder, I understand that a number of daytime midwest Corridor trains have also been canceled by Amtrak. However I didn't see anything about this the last time I looked at the Amtrak website.

 

[jis]

Related to the same weather system which has canceled the Empire Builder, I understand that a number of daytime midwest Corridor trains have also been canceled by Amtrak. However I didn't see anything about this the last time I looked at the Amtrak website.

There is a whole slew of Twitter and Facebook posts I saw last night about them.

 

[alpha3]

Winter storm. It's hitting the airlines too; friend told me SEA is a mess today, cancellations galore, not enough deicing/snow equipment, people to work, etc. And it looks to get worse later in the week; Ohare in Chicago is projecting more than a foot of snow and high wind. Then as it moves NE, the major New York airports and New England are expecting heavy snow and very high winds. Most flights are restricted once crosswinds get above 40mph and the expectation is for swirling 50-60mph winds. There will be pro-active cancellations there I'm sure.

But this mess is dipping way south too. Modern weather is a biyatch now, global warming is making these occurrences more severe and extended. Here in east Tennessee the NWS is saying the weekend is going to see us with actual temps in the single digits - and windchills below zero.

Gawd.

 

[jis]

In the '80s after once getting stuck in Cut Bank for 12 hours in a blizzard I decided that riding the Empier Builder in the Winter is probably not my cup of tea. It is not like Empire Builder getting stuck in the Winter is a new thing.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

In the '80s after once getting stuck in Cut Bank for 12 hours in a blizzard I decided that riding the Empier Builder in the Winter is probably not my cup of tea. It is not like Empire Builder getting stuck in the Winter is a new thing.

Did it have "new engines" then? Because we all know that "old engines" run perfectly in all kinds of weather.

 

[Chris I]

Major ice storm forecasted for Portland and the Columbia Gorge later this week, so I imagine we will see more cancellations, at least on that leg.

 

[jis]

Major ice storm forecasted for Portland and the Columbia Gorge later this week, so I imagine we will see more cancellations, at least on that leg.

The cancellations for Dec 21 and Dec 22 have already been announced.

 

[Shanson]

And yet, when the airlines cancel:
https://mydakotan.com/2022/12/stranded-travelers-opt-for-amtrak/

 

[jis]

Did it have "new engines" then? Because we all know that "old engines" run perfectly in all kinds of weather.

No failures of anything was involved in that one. The engines were a lashup of F40PHs. We were held in Cut Bank because track was unpassable up in Marias Pass. We moved after they had managed to clear a path for us through the pass. It took half a day.

Incidentally 8(28) was finally rescued by a BNSF power and apparently they somehow worked around locked brakes etc. Don't know if they shed and parked some broken down stuff in Devil's Lake. The train was running over ten hours late but moving.

Just saw a photo. They did not leave anything behind at Devil's Lake. The entire consist is being dragged in by a BNSF unit.

 

[railiner]

This *and* running a service in these weather extremes is really creating a potential life safety issue that Amtrak is utterly unprepared to handle.

Imagine a Wolverine situation happening in the literal middle of nowhere Montana. What if the train were snowed in for a week? Would there even be enough food and water on board for all the passengers at that point?

Here’s a story that might be relevant…

https://www.trains.com/ctr/railroads/railroad-operations/stranded-streamliner/

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Here’s a story that might be relevant…

https://www.trains.com/ctr/railroads/railroad-operations/stranded-streamliner/

I posted that in comment #6

 

[jis]

The Empire Builder is now canceled from both SEA/PDX and CHI on the 21st, 22nd and 23rd.

It is sold out out of SEA on the 24th, and almost fully sold out on the 25th. There is still availability out of MSP westbound on the 24th.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

The good thing about the cancellations is that the train won't be stuck outside of a tunnel in an avalanche path....

(Looking at YOU Stevens Pass, 1910)

 

[jis]

Due to weather 51(21) and 50(22) are cancelled.

As an aside, the Black Hills Central Tourist Line near Rapid City SD has cancelled all runs on the 22nd due to inclement and dangerous weather conditions.

 

[Amtrak709]

My sympathies to any and all those rail passengers that may have their holiday travel plans disrupted. As a railfan, I had always wanted to a spend Christmas Eve and Day on board a train. My wife and I did this in 2015 on the Empire Builder 24-25-26 December CHI-SEA in a bedroom suite (D-E). Wanting a little "white Christmas" from passengers living in Daytona Beach FL. It was, indeed, a great trip BUT the outside temperature was 80 degrees the entire trip. Even though I would like to see the snow, perhaps not as extreme as has been recent weather. On a prior trip SEA-PDX I had stepped off the train in Minot ND to stretch my legs--temp outside that day was minus 17 with snow stacked many feet high. I think this was Winter, 1997.
Hope all of you affected can salvage travel plans as appropriate.

 

[Manny T]

So we're facing a possible blizzard here in Chicago and a DePaul University professor was on the news discussing possible travel risks -- he mentioned Amtrak's double-level carriages as not such a great transportation option in high wind conditions. If that's true, then high wind is a factor that might induce cancelation, apart from snow fall totals.

 

[jis]

Not a weather related cancellation, but 3(20) was cancelled due to UP derailment somewhere in its path out of the Los Angeles basin.

Amtrak tried to get a diversion via Mojave but UP refused due to unavailability of pilot crew.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Not a weather related cancellation, but 3(20) was cancelled due to UP derailment somewhere in its path out of the Los Angeles basin.

Amtrak tried to get a diversion via Mojave but UP refused due to unavailability of pilot crew.

The derailment happened at or near Victorvile.

 

[railiner]

I posted that in comment #6

Sorry, I missed it…