Wisconsin High Speed Rail Stopped

[Eric S]

I know what nimbys are, but what does bananas mean

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone/thing

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Looks like the nimbys and bananas were the only ones who voted.

I've seen absolutely no evidence of any NIMBY activists trying to block passenger rail with this or any other election. And frankly I'm beginning to wonder how many AU regulars have any clue what NIMBY's are all about.

 

[volkris]

That's right, the twin notions of, "Don't spend money you don't have," and "Don't take money from the pocket of someone a thousand miles away to pay for your pet project" have made a comeback.

Those maniacs!

In the end, as soon as someone proposes a rational, responsible way to pay for an installation of HSR (or higher speed rail, anyway) then it will be full speed ahead. Making Floridians, Texans, and Californians pay for part of Wisconsin's toys and promising to pull another batch of funding out of the money tree out back just as soon as it sprouts... was not it.

 

[Ryan]

This was a rational, reasonable way of paying for a project.

 

[Guest]

That's right, the twin notions of, "Don't spend money you don't have," and "Don't take money from the pocket of someone a thousand miles away to pay for your pet project" have made a comeback.

All members of Congress, Republican and Democrat, are solidly against "pork".*

* Except for "pork" going to their own states and districts.

 

[Trogdor]

Making Floridians, Texans, and Californians pay for part of Wisconsin's toys and promising to pull another batch of funding out of the money tree out back just as soon as it sprouts... was not it.

That's how every single federally funded project works, and pretty much how every single one has worked since the beginning of federally funded projects.

 

[jim hudson]

Evidently some folks didnt pay attention in Civics while in school or else watch Fixed news so experts like those air heads they call "reporters" can babble on about Govt. and how it's time to shut it down! Most people who get elected to office are shocked when they take office and have to actually make Government work instead of spouting simplistic and ignorant nonsense like we heard during the last elections! Wonder if those new Governors in Ohio and Wisconsin will turn down all Federal funding and raise taxes on their constituents to pay for such "luxuries" as education, transportation, public safety, food and water inspection etc. etc.?? Just saying!

 

[spacecadet]

That's right, the twin notions of, "Don't spend money you don't have," and "Don't take money from the pocket of someone a thousand miles away to pay for your pet project" have made a comeback.

Those maniacs!

In the end, as soon as someone proposes a rational, responsible way to pay for an installation of HSR (or higher speed rail, anyway) then it will be full speed ahead. Making Floridians, Texans, and Californians pay for part of Wisconsin's toys and promising to pull another batch of funding out of the money tree out back just as soon as it sprouts... was not it.

If that had been government's attitude over the past 200 years, we'd all still be living in the original 13 colonies and the rest of the country would never have even been settled.

Maybe that wouldn't have been such a bad thing, now that I think about it...

 

[dlagrua]

In the current economic situation I cannot see a transition to high speed rail happening. The best that we can hope for is a slow transition to high speed rail as we see happening gradually on the NE corridor. If we see some new equipment be happy as thats all we are going to get.

 

[WICT106]

I'm not sure what's going on, but that story makes no sense and it is very short on details. I think that it's time to just take a deep breath and see what happens. It seems very odd in light of this past weekend's events that they would suddenly do this, at least without some court ordering the shut down, which is something that I'm not even sure if the courts really have any say.

As for Illinois, that work is well under way and they aren't as crazy down there to throw away Federal monies for a viable project and a train that already moves half a million people annually at its current speed.

Based on the election results and the desire of the incoming administration to cancel the project, the Wisconsin DOT has issued a stop-work order for all on-going work on the rail line, and will not bid or let any additional work for the Milwaukee to Madison rail project. This will limit the finacial exposure of the state for refund to the Federal DOT of HSR grant funds spent. Basically, it appears present Governor Jim Doyle is not going to press ahead with the project given that the only outcome would be additional cost to state taxpayers.

Lord Almighty, I hope that you're correct in this assessment. Living in WI, and working on a campaign, it became really tough hearing the constant misinformation ( and the opponents were the least informed ) about this Madison - MKE - Chicago route. So many opponents, so seriously misinformed. I strongly hope and desirtre that Doyle gets this thing back underway ASAP, because Walker, I fear, is going to amek a show out of every excuse to stop it. All the while, there are far, far bigger budget targets for walker to cut, and the bigger targets would make more of an impact than terminating some of these contracts for less than 2/10s of one percent of the WI transportation budget. I'm extremely disappointed, to write the least. :angry: :angry:

 

[colobok]

I've read that new Gov. of Florida Scott promised to kill Florida High Speed Rail project.

So Winsconsin will not be alone.

Chinese build new high speed lines in 20 months, USA will be building them forever.

 

[mercedeslove]

I know what nimbys are, but what does bananas mean

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone/thing

Thanks. I was trying to figure it out and couldn't come up with anything.

Stupid idea though because building creates jobs and isn't that what we all want. But instead we are all now going to be standing in line for government cheese just so we can keep gays from getting married and serving in the military, put God in our public schools and cut a few dollars in the budget.

Thing is a lot of the crap they are going to cut would actually lead to more jobs and get people working again, the world is a confusing place.

 

[mercedeslove]

I've read that new Gov. of Florida Scott promised to kill Florida High Speed Rail project.

So Winsconsin will not be alone.

Chinese build new high speed lines in 20 months, USA will be building them forever.

I heard that too. I live in Lakeland which would be one of the stops so yeah I am kind of pissed. We are SO FAR BEHIND other countries in our public transportation its not even funny.

 

[Eric S]

I've read that new Gov. of Florida Scott promised to kill Florida High Speed Rail project.

So Winsconsin will not be alone.

Chinese build new high speed lines in 20 months, USA will be building them forever.

Do you have a source for that? So far, all I have read is that he is not terribly supportive of rail, but not that he had promised a OH/WI-style rejection of federal rail funding.

 

[bretton88]

I've read that new Gov. of Florida Scott promised to kill Florida High Speed Rail project.

So Winsconsin will not be alone.

Chinese build new high speed lines in 20 months, USA will be building them forever.

Do you have a source for that? So far, all I have read is that he is not terribly supportive of rail, but not that he had promised a OH/WI-style rejection of federal rail funding.

His stance has softened lately, especially after the latest round of HSR grants. He said he wouldnt get in the way of it unless Florida got stuck on the hook for the remainder, which the feds very generously gave. So that project is going to happen.

 

[colobok]

I've read that new Gov. of Florida Scott promised to kill Florida High Speed Rail project.

So Winsconsin will not be alone.

Chinese build new high speed lines in 20 months, USA will be building them forever.

Do you have a source for that? So far, all I have read is that he is not terribly supportive of rail, but not that he had promised a OH/WI-style rejection of federal rail funding.

Election results could derail train projects

My link

 

[dlagrua]

I've read that new Gov. of Florida Scott promised to kill Florida High Speed Rail project.

So Winsconsin will not be alone.

Chinese build new high speed lines in 20 months, USA will be building them forever.

I heard that too. I live in Lakeland which would be one of the stops so yeah I am kind of pissed. We are SO FAR BEHIND other countries in our public transportation its not even funny.

Lets not put all the blame on the government(s). One of the key reasons that U.S. passenger rail travel has not progressed is because of the American peoples love affair with the automobile and with flying. If all Americans were like those on this forum we would have excellent rail service nationwide. However the sad reality is that few appreciate rail travel. If there was a higher demand Amtrak would be forced to react to it and the politicans would have to take notice. While passenger rail travel is growing; compared to other forms of transportation the overall demand remains small and the prices remain high.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Lets not put all the blame on the government(s). One of the key reasons that U.S. passenger rail travel has not progressed is because of the American peoples love affair with the automobile and with flying.

We weren't born lovers of automobiles. The "need" to have one was sold to us over the course of decades of aggressive advertising. Our cities were eventually re-developed in ways that promoted if not outright required vehicular ownership. They even passed ordinances that penalized businesses that didn't provide facilities that promoted car-centric living, such as super-sized parking lots. CBS' 60 Minutes program once did a great story on how our street car systems of the past were bought by businesses that were involved in producing automobiles and then quickly dismantled and demolished to artificially increase demand for more cars. Over time we've managed to build an aggressive consumption based economy that is robbing us of good healthcare, good educations, and good infrastructure. As for the American public who suffers under this process? They seem to be none the wiser, forever vacillating between the same two political parties who got us into this mess.

 

[Guest]

Lets not put all the blame on the government(s). One of the key reasons that U.S. passenger rail travel has not progressed is because of the American peoples love affair with the automobile and with flying.

We weren't born lovers of automobiles. The "need" to have one was sold to us over the course of decades of aggressive advertising. Our cities were eventually re-developed in ways that promoted if not outright required vehicular ownership. They even passed ordinances that penalized businesses that didn't provide facilities that promoted car-centric living, such as super-sized parking lots. CBS' 60 Minutes program once did a great story on how our street car systems of the past were bought by businesses that were involved in producing automobiles and then quickly dismantled and demolished to artificially increase demand for more cars. Over time we've managed to build an aggressive consumption based economy that is robbing us of good healthcare, good educations, and good infrastructure. As for the American public who suffers under this process? They seem to be none the wiser, forever vacillating between the same two political parties who got us into this mess.

don't forget that gas is cheap in the US compared with the rest of the world.

 

[Ryan]

Absolutely amazing.

Govorner-elect Walker has reached out to Talgo to say "Hey guys! You're still going to build your factory here, right???"

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/106790123.html

I like how he's claiming that the "decision isn't final, yet".

 

[saxman]

Lets not put all the blame on the government(s). One of the key reasons that U.S. passenger rail travel has not progressed is because of the American peoples love affair with the automobile and with flying.

We weren't born lovers of automobiles. The "need" to have one was sold to us over the course of decades of aggressive advertising. Our cities were eventually re-developed in ways that promoted if not outright required vehicular ownership. They even passed ordinances that penalized businesses that didn't provide facilities that promoted car-centric living, such as super-sized parking lots. CBS' 60 Minutes program once did a great story on how our street car systems of the past were bought by businesses that were involved in producing automobiles and then quickly dismantled and demolished to artificially increase demand for more cars. Over time we've managed to build an aggressive consumption based economy that is robbing us of good healthcare, good educations, and good infrastructure. As for the American public who suffers under this process? They seem to be none the wiser, forever vacillating between the same two political parties who got us into this mess.

don't forget that gas is cheap in the US compared with the rest of the world.

Yup, when gas was dirt cheap there was no reason anyone thought we should keep our rail system strong. Yet I've heard people estimate the oil prices will start climbing again in the 2011/2012 time frame. Also heard that there might not be as much oil in Alaska as we though there was.

It's rather dissappointing what might happen to the planned rail systems in Wisconsin and Ohio, but its due to these reasons above that more and more people are still going to want trains, conservatives and liberals alike. Yes, there will be gains as well as well setbacks just like any project of this nature. My city continues to lay it's transit system as many other cities are doing. More and more people are riding transit as well as Amtrak and that can't be ignored.

In last Tuesday's election a small suburb of Fort Worth, Richland Hills, voted on whether or not to continue to pay a half cent sales tax to remain a member of the Fort Worth Transportation Authority. Currently they have bus service as well as a commuter rail station on the TRE line between Fort Worth and Dallas. Although the residents of that city voted mostly red, a majority of 62% voted to stay in the "T". Obviously they are beginning to understand the importance of transportation other than that focused on cars and highways.

 

[saxman]

Here's a couple newspaper surveys on whether Wisconsin should scrap the HSR project. So far it's 53% for keeping the project going. Probably not very scientific, but still shows what people want.

http://www.wisn.com/news/25636317/detail.html

http://www.channel3000.com/news/25635287/detail.html

And here's a website in which you can let your elected officials know your opinion.

http://www.standupfortrains.org

 

[BigBlueBuddha]

Here's a couple newspaper surveys on whether Wisconsin should scrap the HSR project. So far it's 53% for keeping the project going. Probably not very scientific, but still shows what people want.

http://www.wisn.com/news/25636317/detail.html

http://www.channel3000.com/news/25635287/detail.html

And here's a website in which you can let your elected officials know your opinion.

http://www.standupfortrains.org

Thanks for the links, saxman. I used all of them. I edited the basic letter from Stand Up For Trains, tailoring it more to Wisconsin and my local yokels.

On another note, the weird thing about Wisconsin Governor-elect Scott Walker is that he's not against taking the federal money--he just wants to use it on roads. So he's disingenuous when he says that he wants to cut government spending blah blah; he just doesn't want it spent on trains. :wacko:

At least Walker seems to be backing out of his position now, after Doyle made the brilliant move of immediately suspending all ongoing high-speed rail projects. The hue and cry 'twas heard far and wide. . .

 

[mercedeslove]

Absolutely amazing.

Govorner-elect Walker has reached out to Talgo to say "Hey guys! You're still going to build your factory here, right???"

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/106790123.html

I like how he's claiming that the "decision isn't final, yet".

*headdesk* I think I'd like to go back to my days as a child where politics didn't matter to me.

This is all just making me so ugh!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

*headdesk* I think I'd like to go back to my days as a child where politics didn't matter to me.

This is all just making me so ugh!

So ugh? Can you be more specific?