Would Viewliners like these be possible (Or even Useful)?

[JohannFarley]

Hello all,

I'm sure some of you will be saying to yourselves "oh great, another Viewliner thread from fantasy land," but because I've been stuck inside, I figured I'd try to draw out the Viewliners that I envision from time to time, and how they'd be used.

So my main idea was that different Viewliners could be used to take all Amfleets out of LD service, so they could be used to bolster the corridor fleet (although I'm sure by time these were delivered the Amfleets would be replaced already.

Anyway, here are a few of my ideas, in my order of most to least likely to be used. (

Firstly, a Viewliner Coach. This is essentially a carbon copy of an Amfleet II, but in Viewliner form.

A Viewliner Cafe Car, with the layout changed up to a more open design.


A Lounge-Sleeper combo. This is the design I like the least out of all of them, could definitely use tweaking but I;m not sure where. Maybe no Roomettes?


A Coach-Dorm car. The only thing I wasn't sure about was whether a sleeper needed an ADA bedroom or if one like this could be made.


Lastly, a Viewliner Observation-Dorm-Lounge. I just had fun with this one, let me know what you think.


Let me know what you guys think, of anything I've gotten wrong. Please excuse the art and car design, I'm neither an artist or an engineer.

Based on diagrams from here: Amtrak Car Diagrams @ CraigMashburn.com

 

[Qapla]

OK, I'll play along ... but, I'll leave the outside design to you



Since there are two H-rooms in the Bedroom Sleeper I saw no reason to make the shower Accessible. Also, since all rooms have a toilet, I did not make a public restroom

In the Roomette Sleeper, I did include an Accessible Restroom - since all the roomettes have a toilet, no public non-accessible restroom.

 

[PVD]

A few thoughts.. what would be the purpose of the accessible restroom in the roomette car ? the only accessible room has it's own...the car lacks a coffee/beverage station & storage In the bedroom car, there is no provision for an attendant or bev station

 

[PerRock]

I don't have drawings off-hand but have over the years been playing around with a Viewliner dome design.

peter

 

[JohannFarley]

A dome car would certainly be interesting. Are dome cars short enough to enter NYP?

 

[Qapla]

what would be the purpose of the accessible restroom in the roomette car

I do not need a wheel chair - but I have a handicap placard because I have problems walking. The added space in the accessible restroom is much better for me to use when I ride the train. I'm sure I am not the only one.

the car lacks a coffee/beverage station & storage In the bedroom car

I will agree, there needs to be a beverage station. There is a storage closet at each end of the bedroom car.

I didn't claim to have made the ultimate design ... I was just offering something up in the spirit of the thread

 

[jiml]

A dome car would certainly be interesting. Are dome cars short enough to enter NYP?

What you've done closely resembles Eastern observation cars used in the past. A physical dome is probably unnecessary and a "wraparound" glass roof like Superliner lounges would probably mess up the Viewliner design template too much to be practical.

 

[JohannFarley]

What you've done closely resembles Eastern observation cars used in the past. A physical dome is probably unnecessary and a "wraparound" glass roof like Superliner lounges would probably mess up the Viewliner design template too much to be practical.

I figured this would be more practical than a dome since it doesnt require space to be taken up by stairs, and ensures the whole car stays wheelchair accessible.

 

[PVD]

My mom was somewhat mobility limited post a broken hip. Interestingly she hated wheelchair accessible bathrooms because they often had very low toilets to allow transfer, it was impossible for her to get up...

 

[jis]

A few thoughts.. what would be the purpose of the accessible restroom in the roomette car ? the only accessible room has it's own...the car lacks a coffee/beverage station & storage In the bedroom car, there is no provision for an attendant or bev station

If I understood Thirdrail correctly, according to him a Roomette Car would not meet the current ADA regulations as understood by the Amtrak folks?

On the general subject of whether these cars would be useful, of course they would be, but practically Amtrak would have to have more trains and a larger fleet to make so many types of cars unique to Amtrak cost effective to maintain and operate. The other choice may be to team up with VIA and perhaps a few Eurasian operators to enhance the number of cars needed to distribute development cost over larger numbers to keep unit prices in check.

Also, I don't think any more Viewliner Cars will ever be built. Any new single elvel cars will use some existing mass produced shell, and most of them either are designed to allow window cutouts at waist level and at an upper level or should be easy to modify to allow such, so that will possibly not be a huge show stopper for getting two rows of windows if so desired. But again, we need a system that requires a hundred or more of each type, not just 25.

 

[JohannFarley]

Yeah I assume as well the Viewliner II's will be the last ones made. Again, this was just another trip through fantasy land out of lockdown boredom.

 

[Qapla]

she hated wheelchair accessible bathrooms because they often had very low toilets to allow transfer, it was impossible for her to get up

Hmmm .... That's the opposite of what I have found in ADA restrooms - they all have the taller toilet

A comfort height toilet is sometimes known as an Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) toilet because the height matches that used for ADA-compliant toilets, 17 to 19 inches from floor to seat. This is like the height of a chair. The height of a standard toilet is about 15 inches from floor to seat

 

[jis]

Yeah I assume as well the Viewliner II's will be the last ones made. Again, this was just another trip through fantasy land out of lockdown boredom.

Don't get me wrong. I think if we can figure out a way of using larger numbers of these it would be practical and good. Another concept that has been talked about in these forums is that of using airline Business/First Class style lie-flat recliner seats. Cocojoyboy here has some ideas about that.

As I pointed out, these are not dependent on the Viewliner design specifically. They can be built using almost any of the other standard shells available from various manufacturers in the world.

 

[JohannFarley]

Don't get me wrong. I think if we can figure out a way of using larger numbers of these it would be practical and good. Another concept that has been talked about in these forums is that of using airline Business/First Class style lie-flat recliner seats. Cocojoyboy here has some ideas about that.

As I pointed out, these are not dependent on the Viewliner design specifically. They can be built using almost any of the other standard shells available from various manufacturers in the world.

Yeah that's true. My main point really (at least I think), is that standardization of the LD fleet would be a good thing, and I also think that keeping the LD and Corridor fleets branded separately (as in the new Phase III for LD and Phase IV for the Corridor) would be good as well as it prevents the Rainbow consists we are getting on LD single level trains these days. Having multiple schemes on a single train (to me at least) shows a little bit of disorder.

But who knows, I'm probably overthinking this.

 

[PVD]

Part of the problem for her was the distance to the wall allowing for the chair made it hard to reach something for support.. At home she could use a heght extender ar a frame from a commode with the "bucket" and seat removed

 

[PVD]

Kicking around ideas and having some fun is a good thing for all of us. The drawings are damn good.

 

[JohannFarley]

Kicking around ideas and having some fun is a good thing for all of us. The drawings are damn good.

Thanks! Can't take full credit though, I just cleaned up the drawings from the site I linked in the original post.

 

[jiml]

I'm looking forward to someday riding @Seaboard92 's private dinner train and hearing a voice next to me "Look Grandpa, isn't that one of those Viewliner diners Amtrak sold off after the Pandemic of 2020?" They'll look great with the other "vintage" cars in the train.

 

[cocojacoby]

Firstly, a Viewliner Coach. This is essentially a carbon copy of an Amfleet II, but in Viewliner form.
View attachment 17605

This is a hotly discussed matter on another site. The new Acela II has reduced the total number of restrooms to only one per car because they decided to have "full rotation" ADA bathrooms which are huge and take up all available space. This is a concern shown in focus groups Amtrak has conducted.

Your design allows two, possible three restrooms in the same space. The new Stadler Ultradomes built for the Rockymountaineer has the type you have shown and are currently used on today's Amfleet.

I don't know the answer. Everyone has a different opinion on what the law requires. The more restrooms the better in my opinion.

 

[cocojacoby]

A dome car would certainly be interesting. Are dome cars short enough to enter NYP?

You know what I would love to see?

A Viewliner Diner Lounge as follows:

A bilevel design that can fit through NYP (similar to the size of the LIRR and NJT bilevels)

The top deck is a Dome Lounge for everyone.

The lower level has a food service/kitchen in the center that serves out of both ends. One end of the car is a Sleeper Dining area and the other end is a Coach Dining area. Some seating is on the lower level and some can be on the mezzanine.

Eliminate the door and vestibule.

Now you can satisfy Amtrak's goal of having a single food service car for an entire LD train. I can't see it working in any other way (i.e., making the Viewliner II diners into a single food car for an entire train).

 

[cocojacoby]

This is something I have been pushing for a long time too. A Delta One business class sleeper between coach and Sleeper Service. A Viewliner version would be awesome.

Here are my Viewliner conversion drawings.

Top is existing. Bottom is with Delta One seating.

 

[MARC Rider]

This is something I have been pushing for a long time too. A Delta One business class sleeper between coach and Sleeper Service. A Viewliner version would be awesome.

Here are my Viewliner conversion drawings.

Top is existing. Bottom is with Delta One seating.
View attachment 17621View attachment 17622

This design yields 36 of these lie flat seats vs. the sleeper car capacity of 30 seats (4 bedroom and one ADA room.) I'm not sure this slight increase in capacity will allow them to charge sufficiently reduced fares to make the lack of privacy attractive. Also, is the double sized restroom module large enough to contain an ADA compliant toilet?

 

[Trogdor]

This design yields 36 of these lie flat seats vs. the sleeper car capacity of 30 seats (4 bedroom and one ADA room.) I'm not sure this slight increase in capacity will allow them to charge sufficiently reduced fares to make the lack of privacy attractive. Also, is the double sized restroom module large enough to contain an ADA compliant toilet?

A sleeper has a capacity of 30 only if you put two people in every room. This effectively doubles the cost of accommodating a solo traveler.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

A dome car would certainly be interesting. Are dome cars short enough to enter NYP?

Add a little more glass to the roof-line and I think you've got it!

Below are cars CN acquired from 'The Milwaukee Road' that were originally used on the Olympian Hiawatha

 

[railiner]

You can call these double windowed Viewliner, or other designs like the old Silver Meteor Sun Lounges with glass tops "domes" if you wish, but to me, a true dome must have 360° visibility. The only "domes" low enough for the NEC that approached that requirement, were the former United Aircraft Turbo Trains.