Would you consider this a Fail??

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Did Amtrak Do the RIGHT or WRONG thing in this case by overbooking this train??

  • Right

    Votes: 21 77.8%

  • Wrong

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • Total voters
    27
Acela150

Acela150

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Jan 11, 2008
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While on my Youtube Channel this came up in my suggestions and I decided to watch it to see what it was about. This video was uploaded in December of 2009. After a major snowstorm. The uploader is claiming major "Amtrak Failure". IMO Amtrak was doing there best to get people where they had to go!

So what are your thoughts on the video?? Did Amtrak do the Right or Wrong thing by overbooking the train? Let me hear your thoughts. I know we all get a little restless here so let's please not fight here!

 
I cannot see how taking pasengers money at high bucket and stuffing them into an overloaded train is the right thing to do. However, if it was explained to all passengers before selling the tickets that the train will be standing room only, then its the passengers responsibility to decide if they wish to travel as an animal.
 
Acela150 said:
After a major snowstorm.
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I would much rather be on Amtrak "after a major snowstorm" and even though I may have to stand, know that I'll get there today. An airline also oversells their flights, and when the airport is closed by "a major snowstorm", they will accommodate you on the next flight that has seats available. (There is no option of standing on the plane - you must have a seat!) The "next flight with available seats" may be "next Sunday"!
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This would be true even though you paid high bucket on the plane! If the airport is closed (at either end), it does not matter if your plane ticket is low bucket or high bucket! You're not going anywhere until the airport is open - and the plane has seats available!
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I would squeeze on the train and live with the circumstance for a couple of hours.

The alternative: hang out in NYC until the loads level out at a cost of $$$$.

Of course, I have a buddy whose wife was in a situation like this... she took a cab at $450 plus tip. Now that's high bucket !!
 
No. Sounds like AMTRAK tried to get everyone onboard and moving.

I commented "You could have stayed behind and waited for a lower fare ticket ......"
 
My first ever Amtrak trip was back in 1974 on a Turboliner from STL to CHI that ended up being standing room only; so this is nothing new. And very few if any pax were complaining because they were getting to where they needed to go. Just look at how many commuter train riders have to straphang in the aisles every day. I'd rather be rolling than dead wheeling in a station or airport any day.
 
For those of us that want perfection, we must wait for the afterlife - whichever version works for you.

While living in the real world: as has been said, ride the crowded train, or wait for hours or days someplace (very possibly) less comfortable and more crowded. What were the alternatives?

Snow is real, comfort is perceived.
 
If they were told when they got the tickets that they wouldn't have a seat, I don't think they have much to complain about. That said, if they were charged the high bucket price to stand in a vestibule for 4 hours then that's a rather large fail. So...fine to overbook the train (to a point), wrong if they charged the highest prices (and the amfleet's door's snow issues don't help matters). Makes one wonder if "Reserved Coach" is really "reserved." I'd hope that people with existing reservations got a seat.

It would hardly be a normal occurrence though-Amtrak was probably about the only thing moving around that time and they were trying to take as many as they could...and personally I'd rather be on a crowded and cold train that's moving than a crowded and cold Penn Station that isn't.
 
The real problem here is that the entire thing is without context. We don't know what else was going on that day. In other words, we don't know if there were other trains that were cancelled because of the snow. Odds are good that's what happened here, another train or trains were cancelled and those passengers were placed on the train in the video, and not that Amtrak just oversold the train that badly on purpose.

And that is the real difference between Amtrak and the airlines. With the airlines, people would still be in the airport. With Amtrak, they at least got to where they needed to go, even if things were inconvienent. That's not intended to be a criticism of the airlines, simply an observation of the differences. Amtrak could decide to go that way in the future, but personally I rather hope that they don't. I'd much rather stand for 4 hours and get home or to where I'm going, than spend the night sleeping in the station.
 
IMHO, I would rather be heading for my destination than waiting in a station or airport for who knows how long, with limited services, such as food & drink.

Considering the snow conditions, I am not surprised to see the problem with the door. Now if the door was stuck all the way open, then that would be very bad.

Does anyone know if Amtrak can over-ride the booking system as far as prices?

I assume that even though there were some standing, that the train would not be able to leave the station if it was too full for safety's sake. I'm sure there is a maximum capacity for each car.

Another possibility-is it possible that one or more coaches were bad-ordered, thus causing the overcrowding?

I actually was surprised to see how well Amtrak did these last two severe winters-overall, the trains were moving when planes & buses, & cars were having trouble.
 
I voted Amtrak did the right thing. With weather circumstances as they were, it's quite possible travel by airlines or highways could have been nearly, if not completely impossible. While not the most comfortable situation for those standing, they were at least getting to where they needed to go, instead of being stranded at NYP.

On a side note, when seeing any type of posting like this video, intending to put a negative perspective on a specific situation Amtrak must deal with, I find it amazing how an anti-rail advocate will nearly always lurk about to continuously leave comments condemning the entire Amtrak system.
 
Considering the weather circumstances overbooking seems acceptable. If it were a normal practice it would not be (IMHO). Hopefully the overbooking was communicated beforehand.
 
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While I think it was the right thing for Amtrak to get as many folks out of NYP as possible, I still think the folks on the train are entitled to some form of compensation for their trouble. Part of what Amtrak is selling in their ticket prices is not simply transportation, it is transportation in the comfort of a train. Passengers on board should've been given coffee and cocoa and a portion of their fare back in vouchers towards future travel.
 
Just FYI - Airlines routinely overbook flights!
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If a plane holds 200 people, they may sell 210 seats - because past experiences tell them that 5% of those that bought tickets (such as businessmen who got done with their meeting early and took an earlier flight home) may not show up. So if everyone of those 210 people show up for that flight, the airline must "bump" 10 people! At least on Amtrak, those people can still leave on that train.

But I agree that we don't know the circumstances of this situation. Perhaps the train just before it was cancelled, and thus this train was "overbooked"! I have been on a train that broke down en route, and I was put on the next train - which made that train full. Do you think I complained that I was not stranded somewhere for 3 or 4 days instead of getting home a few hours late?
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When I was a Senior in High School I took the Train (no Amtrak in 1960) from New York City to Baltimore to visit a college. I also took the train back.

The train ride back was miserable - there was a snow storm and the conditions on the train were like that in the utube video. crowded with standees. But they got me home- momma would NOT have called it FAIL, her precious son got back :giggle:
 
AlanB said:
amtrakwolverine said:
From the video description it is a NEC train from NYC to DC maybe it was an unreserved train.
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There are no unreserved trains on the NEC. The closest is the Keystones, which are unreserved west of Philly only.
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I thought the Keystones were unreserved HAR-PHL, and reserved PHL-NYP...

EDIT: just noticed Alan actually said that. Sorry, Alan!
 
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A few weeks ago I reserved tickets for a trip from Chicago to Milwaukee on the Hiawatha. As I recall, there was a big, bold message in red alerting me to the fact that this is an unreserved train, meaning that seats may not be available for me. My guess is that after incidents like we see in this video, they are probably very careful to warn you about the possibility of needing to stand. Granted, Chicago to Milwaukee isn't nearly as far as NYC to DC.
 
I'd say they screwed up by having to pack folks into the vestibule, but (for example) an emergency sale of some extra seats in the Cafe and a few standing room tickets in the cars wouldn't be too bad. Of course, they might also want to (pardon the phrasing) mark some of the tickets as "standing" tickets so there's no real argument. So...fail for what happened, but not for trying to move people.

Edit: Move the standing tickets to the low bucket on a train like this and refund people the excess if need be. Trust me...there are folks who will stand on their head from Washington to New York for a cheap ticket, and if it's this bad, then I'm sure you'll get at least some volunteer standers.
 
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