WSDOT reports on Point Defiance Bypass resumption and new trainsets for Cascades service

[flitcraft]

https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/12...point-defiance-bypass-restart-and-new-trains/
I still think it is a shame that the Talgo 6's have been taken out of service; I loved riding them. Now, if they really were uncrashworthy, then I suppose it was inevitable they'd have to go, but I wonder if that really was the case. (My state representative, on the state transportation committee, expressed some skepticism in the papers, I recall.)

 

[tgstubbs1]

Do you think they a retiring them partly because of the 2017 derailment?

 

[Steve4031]

The 2017 derailment was the main cause IIRC. IIRC, others on here who had more knowledge than I do of crash-worthiness of equipment, noted that few cars of any type would have been "crash-worthy" under the conditions that occurred in the 2017 derailment.

 

[tgstubbs1]

The 2017 derailment was the main cause IIRC. IIRC, others on here who had more knowledge than I do of crash-worthiness of equipment, noted that few cars of any type would have been "crash-worthy" under the conditions that occurred in the 2017 derailment.

I hope they incorporate features that not only improve crash protection but better warning or navigation systems to prevent derailments.

 

[jiml]

Where does this leave the trainsets from Wisconsin? The article makes it sound like WSDOT prefers Horizons.

 

[rickycourtney]

Yeah, it certainly sounds like WSDOT is leaning against leasing the “Wisconsin” Talgo 8 trainsets in favor of leasing Amtrak owned equipment on an as-needed basis.

I believe that Amtrak needs to foot the bill for all or part of the equipment lease costs as part of its agreement after they destroyed one of the Talgo Series VI trainsets.

The future of the “Wisconsin” Talgo 8 trainsets is as uncertain as ever. Talgo is fixing them up now, but with WSDOT out, it sounds like there’s fewer interested buyers than ever before.

 

[sttom]

From what I remember, WSDOT seemed to want to go with Siemens Venture cars or trainsets or tag on to the Amfleet replacement order if they deem it a satisfactory replacement. I also remember that Talgo was particularly inflexible and otherwise difficult to work with. My personal rule of thumb is if a business makes it difficult to do business with them, you move on and I find it funny that leasing Amtrak equipment is the easier option given how....lets say quirky Amtrak can be at times.

 

[Chris I]

Looks like test trains were running on the bypass this past weekend. Quite a few clips out on Youtube.

Looking at forward bookings, it looks like the schedule increases from 1 round trip daily to (4) round trip daily in August 2021. Scheduled time is still 3:30 between SEA and PDX. Not sure what the equipment plan will be when service increases. They were using Talgo equipment on the test trains, but we know they only have 2 units now that the series VI are gone.

 

[Willbridge]

Looks like test trains were running on the bypass this past weekend. Quite a few clips out on Youtube.

Looking at forward bookings, it looks like the schedule increases from 1 round trip daily to (4) round trip daily in August 2021. Scheduled time is still 3:30 between SEA and PDX. Not sure what the equipment plan will be when service increases. They were using Talgo equipment on the test trains, but we know they only have 2 units now that the series VI are gone.

Use of the Fort Lewis line is more for schedule reliability than for running time. The Point Defiance line is prone to freight bottlenecks and slides. And Oregon is working on the bottleneck south of Oregon City.

Here attached is the schedule that went into effect the morning of the crash.

 

[Chris I]

Use of the Fort Lewis line is more for schedule reliability than for running time. The Point Defiance line is prone to freight bottlenecks and slides. And Oregon is working on the bottleneck south of Oregon City.

Here attached is the schedule that went into effect the morning of the crash.

That's what I recall from the schedule. A 10 minute reduction should be possible, especially considering the schedule has quite a bit of padding. Perhaps they will tweak the scheduled run time once they have a few months of data. It's important that they get the advertised trip time down, as to better compete with Bolt Bus.
I don't expect to see the additional round trips any time soon. It will be nice just getting back to the normal schedule this summer.

 

[John Bobinyec]

I hope they incorporate features ... better warning or navigation systems to prevent derailments.

PTC will cover that.

jb

 

[jis]

PTC will cover that.

jb

Indeed. Even in 2017, the train was fully equipped. The track was not.

 

[Willbridge]

One piece of info to keep in mind on the "new" route is that it is also an "old" route. In the attached timetable excerpt the trains that show a time at American Lake were on that line. From what I've been able to figure, the curve where the wreck occurred was a feature added later in order to lower the cost of the grade separation by shortening it.

 

[west point]

One item to remember . The bridge and curve came into being when I-5 was constructed under the RR. IMHO federal funds should be implemented to make a straight track (79 MPH ) as it was before I-5. Unintended consequences of trying to save money !

 

[jis]

One item to remember . The bridge and curve came into being when I-5 was constructed under the RR. IMHO federal funds should be implemented to make a straight track (79 MPH ) as it was before I-5. Unintended consequences of trying to save money !

If it is really straight track with PTC, why on earth would it be limited to 79mph? That is a pre-PTC anachronism.

 

[Chris I]

If it is really straight track with PTC, why on earth would it be limited to 79mph? That is a pre-PTC anachronism.

There are many level crossings in this section, which is one of the reasons I suspect they are limiting this to 79mph. There are no sections on the Cascades line above 79mph. WSDOT is working to replace the level crossings in this area with grade-separated overpasses, as part of I-5 expansion work. If they were to rebuild the railroad overpass to eliminate the S-curve and remove the level crossings, I believe they could do 110mph. It is a relatively short section, though. I'm not sure if it's worth the money here. They could save more time in the schedule by moving to medium platforms and improving the reservation and boarding process to reduce station dwell times.

 

[PNW Pax]

AMTRAK Cascades FB group just posted the following:

"Amtrak Cascades and Coast Starlight passenger train service resumes on the Point Defiance Bypass between Tacoma, Lakewood, JBLM and DuPont on Thursday, November 18, 2021. The first train using the new Tacoma Dome Station leaves Tacoma at 8:08 a.m. heading south and the first northbound train leaves Olympia at 10:13 a.m. "

 

[Big Green Chauvanist]

From an Amtrak Media release .

 

[Triley]

Annnd I’ll be the first (revenue) train north through there, as the news release mentions.

 

[Chris I]

Just got a schedule update for our December trip up to Seattle. They shaved a whole 5 minutes off of our arrival time for train 500. No schedule improvements shown for the Coast Starlight on our trip back south, however.

I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't announce extra round trips this week. Adding trains for the busy Thanksgiving/Christmas travel period would have made sense.

 

[flitcraft]

According to the Seattle Times, the new route takes effect on November 18. Amtrak service along Point Defiance Bypass to resume 4 years after deadly derailment

By the way, the new route was not intended to make meaningful schedule improvements over the Point Defiance route but rather to avoid seasonal delays and closures due to landslides along that route, in my understanding. Landslides are a problem in our rainy season climate here in the Pacific Northwest; I just got my first text message this morning warning of potential landslides due to three weeks of rain, so autumn is officially here!

 

[Seaboard92]

Just got a schedule update for our December trip up to Seattle. They shaved a whole 5 minutes off of our arrival time for train 500. No schedule improvements shown for the Coast Starlight on our trip back south, however.

I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't announce extra round trips this week. Adding trains for the busy Thanksgiving/Christmas travel period would have made sense.

To do that requires equipment be there, and that there are crews.

 

[Chris I]

To do that requires equipment be there, and that there are crews.

Yes, that is part of running a railroad. WSDOT has had 4 years to figure this out.

 

[Chris I]

According to the Seattle Times, the new route takes effect on November 18. Amtrak service along Point Defiance Bypass to resume 4 years after deadly derailment

By the way, the new route was not intended to make meaningful schedule improvements over the Point Defiance route but rather to avoid seasonal delays and closures due to landslides along that route, in my understanding. Landslides are a problem in our rainy season climate here in the Pacific Northwest; I just got my first text message this morning warning of potential landslides due to three weeks of rain, so autumn is officially here!

Landslides have occurred south of Tacoma, but were much more common north of Seattle. Much of this has been mitigated in recent years. I went looking for the project page on the WSDOT website, but it appears to have been scrubbed, which is interesting.

https://www.dupontwa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1476/FOLIO_PTDefBypass_CommunityGuide_112515_?bidId=

The main benefit is avoiding the single-track Point Defiance tunnel. The only way they can add additional round trips is by doing this bypass. It was said to shave 10 minutes off the route, and increase reliability. So given that about 20 minutes of the current schedule (at least what the Talgos can do) was padding, it's quite disappointing to see them only take 5 minutes off of a nearly 3.5 hour trip. Perhaps they will further adjust the schedules once they've been running for a few months and have a better idea of the typical run time.

 

[jis]

Don't they have to schedule now assuming that the trip will be run by standard equipment and not Talgo, given the equipment situation? Would that not mean that they'd have to discount any time saving based on assuming a Talgo schedule? If that is the case I would not expect any significant shortening of schedules at this point until some other areas get speed increments.