WSDOT retiring, selling Talgo trainsets, not acquiring "Wisconsin" trainsets yet

[jis]

Of course we have no way of knowing if both timing have the same amount of recovery time, or one is tighter than the other. For example on the NEC, the Acelas do get a much tighter schedule than the Regionals which also stop at more places. They do have to try real hard to differentiate the two in running time and use every possible trick to achieve that.

 

[rickycourtney]

Conventional equipment takes about 25 minutes longer on this corridor. Pretty significant when the run time is 3:30 on the Talgo. 4 hour run time is not competitive with alternatives on the corridor (Bolt Bus, Flying with public transit to/from the airport on both ends).

Again, for the record, with the speed limit restriction lifted -- that's not the reason for the slowdown. The current Horizon equipment, which requires doors to be manually opened and closed, could be causing a slowdown.

Non-tilting equipment, with trainlined automatic doors, should be able to keep the same schedule as the Talgos.

But you're right, a 3:30 run time is PAINFUL when you consider that with no traffic, the BoltBus can make the trip in about 2:45.

The predictable 3:10 that was supposedly possible with the Point Defiance Bypass is better -- but frankly, WSDOT and Amtrak still need to work to tighten that up more. Station stops need to be shorter.

This gets me to an important, unmentioned point, the Talgo Series VI trains lacked fully trainlined automatic doors. Conductors could not stand at one control panel and open/close doors on one side of the trainset. That was the reason given for need to have the quirky assigned seating system. It was also a problem that Talgo was unable or unwilling to fix.

 

[cocojacoby]

Non-tilting equipment, with trainlined automatic doors, should be able to keep the same schedule as the Talgos.

Well if that is the case than the Talgos could probably run even faster than they do.

 

[Seaboard92]

The Talgo's also have conductor operated doors. They frequently make announcement not all doors will open. We will be opening between cars blah and blah. Now in Seattle and Portland they open all doors, but only as they walk the train and do them.

 

[Chris I]

Again, for the record, with the speed limit restriction lifted -- that's not the reason for the slowdown. The current Horizon equipment, which requires doors to be manually opened and closed, could be causing a slowdown.

Non-tilting equipment, with trainlined automatic doors, should be able to keep the same schedule as the Talgos.

But you're right, a 3:30 run time is PAINFUL when you consider that with no traffic, the BoltBus can make the trip in about 2:45.

The predictable 3:10 that was supposedly possible with the Point Defiance Bypass is better -- but frankly, WSDOT and Amtrak still need to work to tighten that up more. Station stops need to be shorter.

This gets me to an important, unmentioned point, the Talgo Series VI trains lacked fully trainlined automatic doors. Conductors could not stand at one control panel and open/close doors on one side of the trainset. That was the reason given for need to have the quirky assigned seating system. It was also a problem that Talgo was unable or unwilling to fix.

And the Talgo VIII have automatic doors?

 

[MARC Rider]

Non-tilting equipment, with trainlined automatic doors, should be able to keep the same schedule as the Talgos.

Sounds like a job for Amfleet 1's, though, come to think of it, I don't think the automatic doors work on low platforms.

 

[daybeers]

Sounds like a job for Amfleet 1's, though, come to think of it, I don't think the automatic doors work on low platforms.

Correct, the traps have to be deployed by a crew member. Not that hard to do, but the crew has to do it. So there needs to be a member at each door that's open.

 

[Maglev]

On the British higher-speed trains I rode (Intercity 125's), the doors were manually opened by the passengers and opened outwards! Those waiting on the platform had to be mindful of impatient travelers opening the door of a moving train! But all the platforms were high-level, so there was no deploying of traps.

Somebody commented about removing padding on the seats to save weight, and it should be noted that was done on the Talgo VIII's. The seats are much less comfortable than the VI's. Comfort on the curves also applies to the human body.

 

[Steve4031]

On the British higher-speed trains I rode (Intercity 125's), the doors were manually opened by the passengers and opened outwards! Those waiting on the platform had to be mindful of impatient travelers opening the door of a moving train! But all the platforms were high-level, so there was no deploying of traps.

Somebody commented about removing padding on the seats to save weight, and it should be noted that was done on the Talgo VIII's. The seats are much less comfortable than the VI's. Comfort on the curves also applies to the human body.

The interesting thing about those cars in Britain is there is a mechanism to prevent those doors from opening when the train is operating above a certain speed. I remember inquiring about this when I observed the doors being opened while the train was in motion and arriving into a station. I was amazed by this entire process when I first visited in 1988. Additionally, I was a bit hesitant to open the door at all the first time I was first in line to get off because I was used to the Amtrak procedure of crew members only operating doors. Someone waited about 30 seconds and then opened the door and off we went. LOL.

 

[rickycourtney]

The interesting thing about those cars in Britain is there is a mechanism to prevent those doors from opening when the train is operating above a certain speed. I remember inquiring about this when I observed the doors being opened while the train was in motion and arriving into a station. I was amazed by this entire process when I first visited in 1988. Additionally, I was a bit hesitant to open the door at all the first time I was first in line to get off because I was used to the Amtrak procedure of crew members only operating doors. Someone waited about 30 seconds and then opened the door and off we went. LOL.

Reminds me a bit of the old-school Paris Métro rolling stock. The doors only open when passengers pull up on a latch. You could pull the latch as the train was entering the station, and when the train slowed below a certain speed (pretty slow) the doors would fly open. A little more risky than the way today's doors work, but still very low risk.

The new Siemens Venture cars are both high-platform and have trainlined automatic doors. That's accomplished by having a step that deploys as the door opens, so a step box is not needed.

 

[Steve4031]

Reminds me a bit of the old-school Paris Métro rolling stock. The doors only open when passengers pull up on a latch. You could pull the latch as the train was entering the station, and when the train slowed below a certain speed (pretty slow) the doors would fly open. A little more risky than the way today's doors work, but still very low risk.

The new Siemens Venture cars are both high-platform and have trainlined automatic doors. That's accomplished by having a step that deploys as the door opens, so a step box is not needed.

This was an excellent video. It illustrates how those steps work. Should be easier than a horizon coach.

 

[jrud]

This was an excellent video. It illustrates how those steps work. Should be easier than a horizon coach.

Also note that the 1B cars (end cars with two doors per side) are deploying the gap filler for high level boarding on the end nearest the NPCU/loco. This would not normally be done at a low level platform. The doors on the 1A cars (one door per side) and the second door on the 1Bs are for low level boarding with steps.

 

[rickycourtney]

Also note that the 1B cars (end cars with two doors per side) are deploying the gap filler for high level boarding on the end nearest the NPCU/loco. This would not normally be done at a low level platform. The doors on the 1A cars (one door per side) and the second door on the 1Bs are for low level boarding with steps.

Right, which will give passengers who use wheelchairs or don’t feel comfortable using stairs step free access to the train, without having to have the conductor deploy a lift, ramp or bridge plate. Big improvement for accessibility.

 

[coleman]

I lived in Wisconsin when Governor Scott Walker decided to scrap the proposed train line even though we had a grant from the federal government to build the train route and every other state awarded a grant used them.

It's sad to think about how amazing the train line would have been. To be able to travel from Madison - Milwaukee - Chicago would have been a major benefit to residents of Wisconsin and growing the economy.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I lived in Wisconsin when Governor Scott Walker decided to scrap the proposed train line even though we had a grant from the federal government to build the train route and every other state awarded a grant used them.

It's sad to think about how amazing the train line would have been. To be able to travel from Madison - Milwaukee - Chicago would have been a major benefit to residents of Wisconsin and growing the economy.

As Barrak Obama said: "Elections have consequences!"

 

[jrud]

Right, which will give passengers who use wheelchairs or don’t feel comfortable using stairs step free access to the train, without having to have the conductor deploy a lift, ramp or bridge plate. Big improvement for accessibility.

Just to clarify, gap fillers are for high level platforms or low level platforms with a ramp or lift to take wheelchairs to the higher level. They can’t directly replace wheelchair lifts at a door for low platforms. California will have high level boarding at more stations over time.

 

[rickycourtney]

Just to clarify, gap fillers are for high level platforms or low level platforms with a ramp or lift to take wheelchairs to the higher level. They can’t directly replace wheelchair lifts at a door for low platforms. California will have high level boarding at more stations over time.

The plan is to add two “mini-high” platforms on all of the low platforms used by these San Joaquins trains. The two high platform doors with gap fillers will align with these mini-high platforms... the other doors will have steps to the low platform. No ramps or lifts required.

 

[jrud]

The plan is to add two “mini-high” platforms on all of the low platforms used by these San Joaquins trains. The two high platform doors with gap fillers will align with these mini-high platforms... the other doors will have steps to the low platform. No ramps or lifts required.

The last I saw (https://sjjpa.com/wp-content/uploads/SJJPA-Board-Meeting-May-31-2019-Presentation-2.pdf) there were technical questions that needed working out before the mini-high platforms could be built. Are the plans and schedule Now complete? I also wondered if the wheelchair lifts would go away when all the mini-high and totally high platforms where done.

 

[NSC1109]

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Docum...t/305 activities report - monthly 7-31-20.pdf
July NGEC minutes appear to confirm that WSDOT will be tacking on to the Amtrak AMF I replacement order. They’re hopeful for an announcement by the end of summer.

 

[neroden]

I'm starting to suspect that the state add-ons to the order will actually be executed before Amtrak's own order.

 

[TrackWalker]

Anything new information about equipment to replace the two sets of Talgos are on their way south to the scrapper today?

 

[Chris I]

Amtrak Cascades will be adding back 2 additional round trips starting May 24th, giving us 3x daily between PDX and SEA. I believe they are adding an additional trip to Eugene, as well, giving EUG-PDX 2x daily.

Does anyone know the equipment plan? 2x Talgo VIII with Horizon consists making up the difference? What is the status of the Point Defiance Bypass?

 

[cocojacoby]

And where are the orphaned Wisconsin sets now?

 

[rickycourtney]

What is the status of the Point Defiance Bypass?

The plan is to return to the bypass sometime this summer or fall. Details here: Rail - Tacoma - Bypass of Point Defiance - Complete December 2017

And where are the orphaned Wisconsin sets now?

Last I heard they were back at Talgo's facility in Wisconsin. As of now, there's no plan to use them on the Cascades. WSDOT has actively resisted Amtrak's plan to lease them.

With the Siemens Venture sets about to go into service -- and COVID slashing schedules -- there should be some Horizon/Amfleet sets sitting around.

 

[Anthony V]

The plan is to return to the bypass sometime this summer or fall. Details here: Rail - Tacoma - Bypass of Point Defiance - Complete December 2017

Last I heard they were back at Talgo's facility in Wisconsin. As of now, there's no plan to use them on the Cascades. WSDOT has actively resisted Amtrak's plan to lease them.

With the Siemens Venture sets about to go into service -- and COVID slashing schedules -- there should be some Horizon/Amfleet sets sitting around.

Why is WSDOT so opposed to buying the Wisconsin sets? I don't know why they wouldn't, but do they not meet modern crash safety standards? IMO, that is the only valid reason for them not to buy them. They could easily be renovated to meet WSDOT service standards, and re-liveried into the Cascades paint scheme. It is such a waste to let the perfectly-good WI Talgo sets continue to sit unused, when they could fill WSDOT's needs better than Venture coaches would.