why

[JayPea]

Maybe I'm ignorant (don't everyone rush to agreement here :lol: :lol: :lol: ) but I don't care what a train looks like when I'm going to be riding on it. Heck, if I had to I'd settle for those open-air cars you see on tourist trains as long as I'm riding one. I really don't think Amtrak should base their consists on the whim of railfans, of which I'm a huge one. Maybe it's jealousy; Amtrak runs through here in the middle of the night, rather reducing the chances for railfanning Amtrak here.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Maybe it's jealousy; Amtrak runs through here in the middle of the night, rather reducing the chances for railfanning Amtrak here.

If it were jealousy me and the rest of the Ohioans here would be suffering from the same thing :lol:

 

[JayPea]

Maybe it's jealousy; Amtrak runs through here in the middle of the night, rather reducing the chances for railfanning Amtrak here.

If it were jealousy me and the rest of the Ohioans here would be suffering from the same thing :lol:

Yeah, you guys are in the same boat as us here in Eastern Washington---bad timing. Oh well, I guess I just have to be jealous.

:lol:

 

[Donctor]

Umm.. No.
The sleepers were moved to the back for safety issues. With the consists having sleepers up front the lounge cars had no vestibule doors, this movement addresses the issue with the emergency exits-- any "improvement" with noise reduction is secondary.

And if anybody wants to complain about the arrangement-- then I suggest they plan on being in the lounge car in case of an emergency.

Absolutely right. I was going to comment on this, but then I saw someone else had. Thank you!

There was a thread like this on a NYC subway site, and not a single poster (at least that I could find) had the right answer. Grrrr...

 

[Green Maned Lion]

i went and complained to amtrak 3 times they said they would try and fix this problem :angry: me and my fellow railfanners care alot obout the change sum of you guys might not beacuse you just ride amtrak for the heck of it well me and my family are not likr that we ride amtrak for the raifanning reasons :angry:

Hints and suggestions for the new forum poster:

First, to engender respect, attempt to properly type anything. You don't have to succeed. But some punctuation, paragraphing, capitalization, and words spelled in a form approximating the actual English language helps.

Second, speak for yourself. I may speak on my own transit-leaning fringe of sanity, but I never claim that "Everyone wants..." eg cars to disappear and the world is in a conspiracy against us! I know I am in the minority on elimination of highways. I admit it.

Third, we aren't idiots. There might be a few ding dongs on the board, although I can't think of any in particular at the moment. But the vast majority of our members are unusually bright and knowledgeable people who have mild affection for, like, or love trains. Talking to us like we are one of the anti-rail blockheads in Congress doesn't make us like you or place much weight on what you have to say.

Fourth, if you care to search our board, we discussed this particular issue at some length in another thread. The reasons for this change were clearly explained. I don't particularly like the aesthetics of it myself, but that doesn't matter in the least.

Fifth, if you're married, or you have living parents, or really dear friends, you may have some people who actually care that you are unhappy about unimportant and specialized issues. For the vast majority of the world, we don't care about it at all. We have given you the best advice we can give you: contact Amtrak with a viable alternative that does not sacrifice safety.

Sixth, among the many reasons why this is the only solution, the Viewliners must be oriented with the H-room facing the diner.

 

[jackal]

if your opinions and maturity are reflective of the railfan community at large

Yes, folks, please don't encourage the OP to bring his complaints to Amtrak! It's just going to give the rest of us a bad name!

 

[Neil_M]

thats where your wrong the consist does matter mabe not to you but the hundreads of railfanners that have railfanned the silvers since they were born.but with the way your talking you seem to just ride amtrak just to get were your going well thats not the way i want it and the piont that me and my railfanners are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM its just the way they should be and i ride amtrak to hear the k5lA AND SEE THE Butiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

I like the trains to sound nice and look nice. I only get let out 3 times a year.

 

[rayray]

thats where your wrong the consist does matter mabe not to you but the hundreads of railfanners that have railfanned the silvers since they were born.but with the way your talking you seem to just ride amtrak just to get were your going well thats not the way i want it and the piont that me and my railfanners are trying to say is PUT THE CONSIST BACK TO ORIGINAL FORM its just the way they should be and i ride amtrak to hear the k5lA AND SEE THE Butiful sights and the sleepers in the front :angry:

I like the trains to sound nice and look nice. I only get let out 3 times a year.

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

 

[MrFSS]

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

Yes! We do both. And we also ride it as nothing more than a means of transportation.

 

[user 1215]

Heck my parents live 3/4 mile from train tracks and complain about the horns at night.

I grew up (11 years) about 500 feet from the Coast Line (the SP's north-south mainline in California and the route of the Coast Starlight) and about 1/4 mile from a private driveway crossing a few houses down. That meant the trains were usually blowing their horns right as they passed my bedroom.

Never bothered me. In fact, if it were daytime, as soon as I'd hear the train coming, I'd run out to the back fence to watch it and wave at it. And if it were night and I were lying in bed, I'd run to the window. And if I were sleeping, I'd never be awoken, but my dreams were made happy.

(Except one vivid nightmare where a train kind of entered my bedroom in the way that only something in a dream can happen, but that was an isolated incident!)

heck its just wrong too put sleepers on the end of the consists its just not the way amtrak should roll i love slepping inthe viewliner listening to k5la especialy at night but after my last ride yesterday when there were on the rear i was soo mad the only good thing obout this is when i took the the cresent to alanta i was in the last amfleet which is know right behind the baggage car i could hear the k5la great but thats still wrong amfleets should never be this way unless on th reginal or palmettooo but know that the consists have reversed its like the cardinal took over the silvers :angry:

It's just wrong not using punctuation.



I rode on the Silver Meteor last month and was in a sleeper 2nd from the rear. It was an awesome trip. Slept as well as I could expect for being on a train (usually too excited - not uncomfortable - to get significant sleep).

Aesthetically, it's not as bad as I thought it would be after I first heard the announcement. P42s aren't that much taller than the baggage, which aren't that much taller than the Amfleets, which aren't that much shorter than the viewliners.

Solution is to go to an all-Viewliner consist...if they could just figure where to put the baggage!

 

[user 1215]

Amtrak is not in the business of pleasing your lenses or your opinions of how their trains look. They run intercity transportation in a safe manner. Their first priority is safety, their second is pax comfort, you're not even in the top ten list.

I would submit that Aestheics are probably in the top five considerations of revenue producing passengers. As odd as it may sound, it's much more likely that people will pay to ride a P42-pulled train than on a MLW RS-10 or something (even if it had HEP).

 

[Ryan]

I seriously doubt that.

Considering all of the questions that we get here from newbie travelers, having never seen anyone ask "what will the train look like on the outside?" I'm of the mind that aesthetics aren't in the top 50 considerations of revenue producing pax.

 

[haolerider]

Amtrak is not in the business of pleasing your lenses or your opinions of how their trains look. They run intercity transportation in a safe manner. Their first priority is safety, their second is pax comfort, you're not even in the top ten list.

I would submit that Aestheics are probably in the top five considerations of revenue producing passengers. As odd as it may sound, it's much more likely that people will pay to ride a P42-pulled train than on a MLW RS-10 or something (even if it had HEP).

I would have to strongly disagree with you on this point. Most people could care less what is pulling the train, as long as it works and gets them there. As far as the consist is concerned, again most passengers don't care if the outside of the train looks the same or different, they are concerned with the inside and whether or not it is comfortable and clean - and safe. If aestheics were important they would be one of the questions asked by Amtrak for their Customer Satisfaction Index. Exterior aestheics does not appear anywhere on the survey - nor on any survey I have ever seen from Amtrak. Most passengers couldn't tell you (or really care) the difference between a P42 and a B52!

 

[Guest]

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

Yes! We do both. And we also ride it as nothing more than a means of transportation.

then yall shoudent talk obout amtrak then beacuse its more than just transportation and some of you guys are giving amtrak a bad name yourselfs sooo i guess im the only one who cares really obout what amtrak really is man you guys are just wrong :angry:

 

[haolerider]

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

Yes! We do both. And we also ride it as nothing more than a means of transportation.

then yall shoudent talk obout amtrak then beacuse its more than just transportation and some of you guys are giving amtrak a bad name yourselfs sooo i guess im the only one who cares really obout what amtrak really is man you guys are just wrong :angry:

Are you for real - or is this a spoof? If you are a real person and (in your own mind) the only one who cares about Amtrak, then go ahead and register.

 

[Ryan]

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

Yes! We do both. And we also ride it as nothing more than a means of transportation.

then yall shoudent talk obout amtrak then beacuse its more than just transportation and some of you guys are giving amtrak a bad name yourselfs sooo i guess im the only one who cares really obout what amtrak really is man you guys are just wrong :angry:

I know, wanting pax to be safe is such a dumb move.

If you think that advocating for ugly consists gives Amtrak a bad name, what kind of name do you think that a bunch of dead pax are going to give Amtrak?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

Yes! We do both. And we also ride it as nothing more than a means of transportation.

then yall shoudent talk obout amtrak then beacuse its more than just transportation and some of you guys are giving amtrak a bad name yourselfs sooo i guess im the only one who cares really obout what amtrak really is man you guys are just wrong :angry:

Amtrak is next to Godliness then, yes?

Seriously, if you are of that opinion why are you here? It's clear you're not changing our minds or making any difference for your trains. Why don't you resume your activities with your local railfanning groups...

 

[MrFSS]

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

Yes! We do both. And we also ride it as nothing more than a means of transportation.

then yall shoudent talk obout amtrak then beacuse its more than just transportation and some of you guys are giving amtrak a bad name yourselfs sooo i guess im the only one who cares really obout what amtrak really is man you guys are just wrong :angry:

Are you for real - or is this a spoof? If you are a real person and (in your own mind) the only one who cares about Amtrak, then go ahead and register.

He has registered before, but hasn't logged in to post.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Amtrak is not in the business of pleasing your lenses or your opinions of how their trains look. They run intercity transportation in a safe manner. Their first priority is safety, their second is pax comfort, you're not even in the top ten list.

I would submit that Aestheics are probably in the top five considerations of revenue producing passengers. As odd as it may sound, it's much more likely that people will pay to ride a P42-pulled train than on a MLW RS-10 or something (even if it had HEP).

I would have to strongly disagree with you on this point. Most people could care less what is pulling the train, as long as it works and gets them there. As far as the consist is concerned, again most passengers don't care if the outside of the train looks the same or different, they are concerned with the inside and whether or not it is comfortable and clean - and safe. If aestheics were important they would be one of the questions asked by Amtrak for their Customer Satisfaction Index. Exterior aestheics does not appear anywhere on the survey - nor on any survey I have ever seen from Amtrak. Most passengers couldn't tell you (or really care) the difference between a P42 and a B52!

I concur.

The only time a pax would care about the outside look of a train is if it wasn't clean. Clean cars are nice, but other than that, they could care less whether the heights of one car match the engines or now--

 

[sky12065]

are you guys railfanners or do yall just ride amtrak for the heck of it <_<

Yes! We do both. And we also ride it as nothing more than a means of transportation.

then yall shoudent talk obout amtrak then beacuse its more than just transportation and some of you guys are giving amtrak a bad name yourselfs sooo i guess im the only one who cares really obout what amtrak really is man you guys are just wrong :angry:

Are you for real - or is this a spoof? If you are a real person and (in your own mind) the only one who cares about Amtrak, then go ahead and register.

He, she, it can't be for real! Sounds like it might be a hapless spoofaholic to me! <_<

 

[Ryan]

The only time a pax would care about the outside look of a train is if it wasn't clean.

And only then if it were the windows weren't clean, obstructing the view. You could probably have a train covered in grime except for the windows and most of the pax wouldn't care a whit.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The only time a pax would care about the outside look of a train is if it wasn't clean.

And only then if it were the windows weren't clean, obstructing the view. You could probably have a train covered in grime except for the windows and most of the pax wouldn't care a whit.

:shrug:

Maybe, the point is, pax in general are more likely to complain about the weather while inside a metal box than what the metal box looks like--

Part of the reason I think there is a lot of "heated" debate on this board recently is the fact that Amtrak, for the first time on how long, has options. They have options on how to deal with the SL, how to deal with safety issues, how to deal with new cars and refurbing old engines and diners. Before this, the issues were pretty cut and dry: "We have no money, we should just cut the route, end of story" and now there is a huge grey area where people can take sides and become impassioned. However there is always Ockham's razor, where all things being equal, the simplest option is always the preferable option. However in the subject that is this thread, all things are NOT equal-- since not all options solve the problem as completely as others. And, as for equality, all but (one) of us in this thread agree: "Safety is more important than aesthetics"

 

[user 1215]

All but (one)? I never said it was the most important. Just in the top 5. Aesthetic design is hardly an afterthought.

But maybe it is here in the US. It's makes a difference in Japan - even non rail fans would prefer to be on a series 500 Shinkansen than a series 300 because of its appearance. I know it plays a big role in Europe, too. And, not to take this as a sole authority, but Sid Meyers takes it into consideration on Railroad Tycoon.

I agree that safety and comfort pre-empt aesthetics, and even interior aesthetics (which are in line with comforts) take a higher role than external.

There's a mental cringe when someone sees that the P42 pulling up on their platform has bruises and scars from previous encouters with some sort of metallic tresspasser or another.

Does it matter in aviation? Sure. Does it matter in ... gasp ... cars?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

All but (one)? I never said it was the most important. Just in the top 5. Aesthetic design is hardly an afterthought.

I was talking about our guest who is under the opinion that the last Amtrak derailment was in 2001 and that the trains are 100% safe and that nobody really cares about safety.

 

[frj1983]

RayRay

seems to have a lot of anger (glad he didn't type in caps) and is quite obviously NOT going to change his mind on this...perhaps it's time to leave the station??

6 more weeks until I ride the rails (and I won't care if the consist is perfect)!