PetalumaLoco
Conductor
icky thought; a woodie museum... :blink:
Boardman says Turboliners "Not coming back."
- Thread starter Green Maned Lion
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Don't we have one in the petrified forrest?
PetalumaLoco
Conductor
Not touching that with a 6 foot pole.
PetalumaLoco
Conductor
I like the idea of displaying it, this is too much of a throw-away society.
wayman
Engineer
Doesn't selling it for scrap metal mean much of the metal is being recycled? That's different than just throwing it away.
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
I find it interesting that you find two trains attractive, both of which look pretty phallus-like to me. Not to mention butt-ugly.
I think that likely says more about you than it does me!
PetalumaLoco
Conductor
Semantics...
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Does it really matter-- if Boardman tomorrow announced that each set was being donated to a railroad museum, would that make you happy?
Yes it would. I'd see if I could submit a bid for like $10k or something, but then I guess that (a) I'd need to have a museum willing to take a set and (b) I doubt that'd even cover transportation costs. Plus, I don't know if Amtrak is willing to sell them separately rather than selling the entire fleet together.
This is the ad they put out:
ROHR TURBOLINERS FOR SALE Amtrak has available for sale seven (7) trainsets of Rohr Turboliners (Direct Drive Gas Turbines) and associated spare parts inventory. Each trainset consists of a combination power and coach at each end and three intermediate coaches, one with a food service facility. Three (3) trainsets have been overhauled and are stored in Delaware; four (4) trainsets are in various stages of overhaul and are stored in New York. Contact information provided below for interested parties: B. A. Hastings, Officer Asset Recovery, Telephone Number: 215-349-1192 E-mail: [email protected]
Last edited by a moderator:
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
Wow... and that just proves how weak your arguments are. If all that matters is preserving a few trainsets and not actually making money or representing the taxpayer or making Amtrak follow through as you have been ranting and raving about for months... then congrats, you no longer have a leg to stand on.
It's simple, you like these trains for no good reason. You'll do anything to keep them... even if it is impractical and impossible to justify.
It's simple, you like these trains for no good reason. You'll do anything to keep them... even if it is impractical and impossible to justify.
No, I hate seeing trains that were nicer than the existing Amfleet equipment go to waste after all that money was spent on 'em. I'd rather see them in service. I hate to see blatant waste, and I generally like to see equipment retired only after it's truly worn out. Heck, I put 220,000 miles on my car before I finally replaced it! The Turboliners, after all that time and money was spent on 'em, saw practically zero service. But if they're not going to return to service, I'd sure rather see them preserved than scrapped!
So no, I'm not happy that the taxpayers' investment in this totally rebuilt equipment is being completely wasted, while Empire Corridor service has deteriorated. And I'm not happy that Amtrak isn't being held accountable for its failure to meet obligations it previously agreed to with NYDOT, or for its failure to maintain the Turboliners in useable condition after taking them to Delaware for "safe keeping" in 2004. But to destroy the expensive trains that taxpayers bought is just plain mean spirited. They should at least let us have a museum display after all the money that was spent on the equipment!
Last edited by a moderator:
ALC Rail Writer
Engineer
...
...
... Joe, start the shredder.
...
... Joe, start the shredder.
Wel if one were to be displayed in Museum ?? Which one ??I bet it just annoys some people that the French managed to make these things work for years, yet they bewildered those super clever Americans! :lol: :lol: :lol:
FreedomTurboliners anyone?!
French made RTG very succesfull but already preserved in SNCF museum in Mulhouse FR.
As for the Rohr California sets:
RTL 1 all in bad shape in supersteel yard in very detoriated condition.
RTL II in not much better shape, would be nothing more than a money drain on museum.
RTL III the most unsuccesfull of all, a monument of American can't do, a symbol of how political screwed up we are as a nation.
Last edited by a moderator:
MattW
Conductor
I'll jump on board with the museum club. At least keep one. Like it or not, they were part of American Railroad History and their story deserves to be told, if anything as a reminder of the miserable failure politics can sometimes lead to. There are 7 sets, donate 1, scrap 6. I really wish they'd return to service too, but I know that will definitely never happen.
Upstate
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2009
- Messages
- 405
LMAO! I love this guyI bet it just annoys some people that the French managed to make these things work for years, yet they bewildered those super clever Americans! :lol: :lol: :lol:
FreedomTurboliners anyone?!
pebbleworm
Lead Service Attendant
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2009
- Messages
- 257
I used to work on French cars, and American mechanics just could NOT wrap their brains around how they worked. They are just put together with a slightly different approach, and an approach that is counter-intuitive if you are used to working on a Detroit product. I heard a French engineer say one time that "If it isn't French, it isn't logical" which explains a lot- it is just a different logic than Americans are used to. All too many French cars ended up in the junkyard because someone tried to "fix" some emission controls for example that were working just fine but just "looked wrong" or offended the mechanics sense of order. Or for an electrical problem caused by a relay in an unexpected location. French cars are used as Taxi's in Africa, so they can and do hold up well.
Last edited by a moderator:
volkris
Lead Service Attendant
I don't find it very peculiar that people say at least one Turbotrain should be kept in a museum. These things are clearly part of the history of modern American railroading, arguably significant part considering how often they're talked about here.
On the other hand, I find it funny that some here seem to be so irrationally and zealously anti-Turbo that they want these things completely expunged from the history. A train displayed in a museum is one they can't put in the memory hole!
On the other hand, I find it funny that some here seem to be so irrationally and zealously anti-Turbo that they want these things completely expunged from the history. A train displayed in a museum is one they can't put in the memory hole!
Summary:
1. Some would like to see them restored to service by Amtrak. Probable result: Pigs will first sprout wings and fly, replacing bats as insect control fleets.
2. Some would like at least one set to be "Museum'd". Probable result? Who knows. Nobody on this Board is likely to have any influence on the outcome, other than increasing the supply of hot air on an Earth already endangered by Global Warming. It is a nice idea, in the abstract, but the costs associated with doing it include Amtrak giving up the non-trivial scrap value, the cost of moving them to the museum, and the substantial cost of upkeep to the museum, to say nothing of the ongoing cost of the storage space itself. These are not minivans. One set would take roughly the same storage space as a nuclear submarine, just a bit narrower and not as tall.
3. Some would like them scrapped, and the income from that "recycled" into new, revenue-generating rolling stock for Amtrak. That's my personal choice. My guess, given Amtrak's (pardon the pun) track record, is that they will wait until they have spent more in storage and administrative costs and legal fees than they will gain in scrap value, thus continuing their "net loss on everything we do" policy.
4. Some would like to see them sold and used by somebody. Given how poorly they worked in the only revenue service attempted with them, that likelihood, in my opinion, is right up there with the replacement bats (see #1, above).
5. Since we seem to have thoroughly exhausted the discussion of possibilities, and there is absolutely no room for doubt as to how ANY of the participants of this discussion feel about the subject, can we PLEASE let it go at this point? The current level of discourse is producing large quantities of smoke, heat, irritation, frustration, and fertilizer, but no useful illumination at all. And, like all too many of the forwarded emails I receive every day, it is taking up Internet bandwidth and data storage space with no perceivable benefit attached to it.
1. Some would like to see them restored to service by Amtrak. Probable result: Pigs will first sprout wings and fly, replacing bats as insect control fleets.
2. Some would like at least one set to be "Museum'd". Probable result? Who knows. Nobody on this Board is likely to have any influence on the outcome, other than increasing the supply of hot air on an Earth already endangered by Global Warming. It is a nice idea, in the abstract, but the costs associated with doing it include Amtrak giving up the non-trivial scrap value, the cost of moving them to the museum, and the substantial cost of upkeep to the museum, to say nothing of the ongoing cost of the storage space itself. These are not minivans. One set would take roughly the same storage space as a nuclear submarine, just a bit narrower and not as tall.
3. Some would like them scrapped, and the income from that "recycled" into new, revenue-generating rolling stock for Amtrak. That's my personal choice. My guess, given Amtrak's (pardon the pun) track record, is that they will wait until they have spent more in storage and administrative costs and legal fees than they will gain in scrap value, thus continuing their "net loss on everything we do" policy.
4. Some would like to see them sold and used by somebody. Given how poorly they worked in the only revenue service attempted with them, that likelihood, in my opinion, is right up there with the replacement bats (see #1, above).
5. Since we seem to have thoroughly exhausted the discussion of possibilities, and there is absolutely no room for doubt as to how ANY of the participants of this discussion feel about the subject, can we PLEASE let it go at this point? The current level of discourse is producing large quantities of smoke, heat, irritation, frustration, and fertilizer, but no useful illumination at all. And, like all too many of the forwarded emails I receive every day, it is taking up Internet bandwidth and data storage space with no perceivable benefit attached to it.
While I'd like to see an entire set preserved, they could at a minimum save a power car. How much does it cost to maintain equipment such as, say, the E60 or the Metroliner at the RR Museum of PA?
http://prorail.com/conv/c2007metroliner.jpg
A Turbo power could would take up no more room than that.
http://gelwood.railfan.net/amtk/amtk155bsm.jpg
As for the scrap value, come on, that's in the noise relative to the millions that were already spent rebuilding the Turboliners! It's inconsequential.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nickrapak
Service Attendant
I want a set to be preserved at the soon to be built Museum of American Politics, along with a Cardinal schedule.
The museum will open "next year" and is already $1 trillion over-budget, due to legal requirements restricting the states of origin for the building materials, as well as the age, race, gender, height, weight, eye color, hair color, shoe size, hat size, favorite color, favorite food and sexual orientation of the construction workers. There is also considerable discourse on the wall color, brought on by the White Paint Only PAC and the Bone White Forever PAC. As a service to the taxpayer, the museum will be free for the first visit, but then the price will increase to $1000 per visit to cover the costs.
The museum will open "next year" and is already $1 trillion over-budget, due to legal requirements restricting the states of origin for the building materials, as well as the age, race, gender, height, weight, eye color, hair color, shoe size, hat size, favorite color, favorite food and sexual orientation of the construction workers. There is also considerable discourse on the wall color, brought on by the White Paint Only PAC and the Bone White Forever PAC. As a service to the taxpayer, the museum will be free for the first visit, but then the price will increase to $1000 per visit to cover the costs.
- Status
