I've been reading all the threads about all of the real meltdowns in service on Amtrak this summer, especially with the long-distance trains. (though it seems the NEC has been having its problems, too.) When I say "meltdown," I mean a train that's cancelled before or in the middle of its run, or which doesn't arrive on the day of its scheduled arrival. OK, maybe a train that gets in late at 1 AM, but was scheduled to arrive at 11:30 PM might not count as a meltdown, but you get the idea.) I guess it would also include misconnects where the passengers can't get any kind of connection the same day and need to be accommodated overnight. It seems to me that there have been more of them in recent years, but maybe not; after all my epic meltdown experiences are all from almost 20 years ago. I wonder if anyone is keeping track of these, as I would think that the reliability of rail service would be a utmost importance for people making a decision to use the train for transportation. I know somebody has a website that allows you to look at the history of on-time performance, but has anyone gone through them and catalogued whether extremely delayed arrivals and cancellations have been increasing over the years? It seems to me that this would be a natural thing for the RPA to do, or be interested in. After all, if it's a crap shoot whether your train will run, better to pick some other method of transportation.
Amtrak delays 2023 H2 - 2024
- Thread starter pennyk
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caravanman
Engineer
I think it would be fairer to include the "reasons" behind any failures to provide the scheduled services?
Have train consists been damaged by collisions, are trains not where they should be due to freight derailments, weather issues, etc etc.
Have train consists been damaged by collisions, are trains not where they should be due to freight derailments, weather issues, etc etc.
Just from my own experiences, things seem to have gotten generally better than they were 10 to 20 years ago in terms of on time performance. Nothing happening now appears to equal the consistently multiple hours late Builder for months on end during the height of the Bakken oil boom, or the Starlight's consistently being at least 4 hours late, and often much, much more, for a couple years during the 2000s when it appeared UP was actively trying to screw the train. Or the Sunset having to have its schedule changed to a roughly 2pm departure from LA to reach New Orleans at the same time it traditionally had during UP's epic meltdown. That doesn't mean things are good, but the months long incidences of consistent severe lateness on some trains does not appear to be happening now. The incidents seem more random and sporadic, even if you get a wave of them like happened recently.
The downside is Amtrak is responding to severe lateness more poorly than it did then. You seldom saw trains being outright cancelled with no alternate transportation even when trains were terribly late for months on end. You never saw trains being terminated enroute with no alternate transportation as recently happened on the SW Chief. They'd turn the consists and do a bus bridge. They never stranded you or took you back to your origin. Some of their responses in the last couple years I have found to be quite disturbing.
I use Amtrak for routine transportation, including the LDs. I have developed my own rules of thumb from decades of Amtrak travel and don't generally look up the stats for my own travel. Always layover overnight in Chicago eastbound is a big one. But when answering questions here or on FB on lateness/connection advisabilty I will usually run ASMAD queries to look at the stats.
I imagine RPA does track, whether or not they use ASMAD. They certainly seem up on delay stats generally and actively participated/lobbied the FRA on how to define passenger delay metrics.
Speaking of FRA and passenger delay, the FRA publishes passenger delay metrics quarterly now and has for the last couple years.
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I think it would be helpful to define "meltdown" more specifically in this context. I looked at a few definitions on the OneLook Dictionary website. Merriam-Webster is concise: "a rapid or disastrous decline or collapse," like a nuclear reactor melting down. Not just seriously messed up, but going through the floor.
When Amtrak service collapses, with no alternative offered, passengers stranded (like the airport mess this week), no idea when service will be restored, I would call that a meltdown. A derailment that forces detours, but Amtrak gets everybody to their destination, albeit late—I wouldn't call that a meltdown. I think that collapse of service (not necessarily systemwide) should be part of our definition of an Amtrak meltdown.
When Amtrak service collapses, with no alternative offered, passengers stranded (like the airport mess this week), no idea when service will be restored, I would call that a meltdown. A derailment that forces detours, but Amtrak gets everybody to their destination, albeit late—I wouldn't call that a meltdown. I think that collapse of service (not necessarily systemwide) should be part of our definition of an Amtrak meltdown.
Well it certainly seems to me Amtrak has had an *incredible* amount of equipment/engine issue in the past month resulting in delays and cancellations.
JamesWhitcombRiley
Lead Service Attendant
Add in risk aversion and NJT equipment fouls. But on CrowdStrike Day, July 19, Amtrak stood proud while the airlines went blue screen.
west point
Engineer
But when tried a trial booking could not use my Cr card.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Credit Card transaction acquirers, many of them were down, so of course attempts to run credit card charges would have failed at that time. Many of the bank debit cards would not work either, and even most of the big banks were hit.
But then at least you could hopefully get train status information.
SubwayNut
Conductor
Currently on 49/449 waiting to leave chicago they've announced that we're delayed because they need to load sand in the leading locomotive.
You'd think that would be checked before it left the yard
Exactly! This is similar my experience last fall when the California Zephyr was almost 3 hours late leaving due to a horn that didn't work. You'd have expected that to be tested before it left the yard! The geniuses finally decided to switch the locos around.You'd think that would be checked before it left the yard
About a year or so ago, there was some discussion about how Amtrak was having a hard time training its replacement maintenance workers because the replacements didn’t have the reading skills to be able to understand and use the repair manuals. Judging from some of the maintenance-related incidents which have occurred recently, this might still be the case.
There might also be an issue that the people who write the repair manuals don't have the writing skills to write manuals in clear, simple language that can be easily understood and not misunderstood.
This is partly based on my experience reading various technical instructions of gizmos that I've recently purchased. Plus 40+ years of peer reviewing scientific and technical papers.
It would be nice to hear from some of the now-retired Amtrak maintenance people who also used these manuals and who can comment first hand on how easy or hard it was to understand them.
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west point
Engineer
As someone on both sides of writing and correcting ------ How true. Had to fight management many times to not issue technical manuals until reread and corrected for at three different days.
west point
Engineer
Another weekend and more CAT failures. Apparently more than one track. Maybe tracks 2 & 4? It is time to separate PRR style CAT on each track so a snag on one track will not have effect on more than one track. Oaf course the big question is who done it???
07/21/24 4:15pm EDT
_ Delay Notification: As of 4:13 PM ET Train 88 is currently
_ stopped north of Metropark (MET) due to overhead power issues.
_ Crews are diligently working to resolve the issue. We will
_ provide updates as more information becomes available. We
_ greatly appreciate your patience and understanding.
_
_ 07/21/24 4:57pm EDT
_ Mechanical Issue: As of 4:44 PM ET Train 88 is currently
_ stopped north of Metropark (MET) due to mechanical issues
_ resulting from overhead power issues. A new engine is enroute
_ and estimated to arrive in 45 minutes. We sincerely appreciate
_ your continued patience and understanding.
_
_ 07/21/24 5:35pm EDT
_ Service Update: As of 5:30 PM ET The new engine has arrived
_ to Train 88 and crews are currently working to make the
_ addition. We hope to have additional updates within 30 minutes.
_ We sincerely appreciate your continued patience and understanding.
07/21/24 4:15pm EDT
_ Delay Notification: As of 4:13 PM ET Train 88 is currently
_ stopped north of Metropark (MET) due to overhead power issues.
_ Crews are diligently working to resolve the issue. We will
_ provide updates as more information becomes available. We
_ greatly appreciate your patience and understanding.
_
_ 07/21/24 4:57pm EDT
_ Mechanical Issue: As of 4:44 PM ET Train 88 is currently
_ stopped north of Metropark (MET) due to mechanical issues
_ resulting from overhead power issues. A new engine is enroute
_ and estimated to arrive in 45 minutes. We sincerely appreciate
_ your continued patience and understanding.
_
_ 07/21/24 5:35pm EDT
_ Service Update: As of 5:30 PM ET The new engine has arrived
_ to Train 88 and crews are currently working to make the
_ addition. We hope to have additional updates within 30 minutes.
_ We sincerely appreciate your continued patience and understanding.
When catenary wires break on one track they often foul adjacent tracks because when not under tension they tend to curl up, but not necessarily in a nice neat way. The reason is that when the wire was new it was rolled up neatly on a large spool. It wants to revert to its original shape.
jb
jb
thefirewarde
Service Attendant
And this is even more true with the tight center to center distance on most of the NEC.
JuniusLivonius
Train Attendant
It appears that a PSE&G line fell on catenary. I don't know if that power line started it or Amtrak's started it. If you've ever seen how close utility lines are to catenary, it seems that this was bound to happen.
I found this picture of arcing on Reddit. No context, time or location (which can be inferred anyway) since we've all forgotten how to use the internet or organize information. I tracked the location of this image to W Grand Ave / E Grand Ave in Rahway, near MP 19.
Only tracks 1 and 3 were opened a few hours after that with a 60mph speed restriction from MP 18 to MP 19. Normal speed is 90mph and 125mph, respectively. Rahway is at MP 19.5.
On Twitter I found "Someone posted the video of the catenary snap at Rahway" - Again, no source or hint at where this video even is. If any of you know, please share.
Which tracks are 2 & 4 ? (I don't remember how Pennsy tracks are numbered).
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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2 is normally used westbound and it is the fast track. 4 is normally used eastbound and it is the slow track.
A similar incident took place in the same area a few years back involving utility power line falling on the catenary which shut down the NEC for a while, until the mess was cleared. I wonder if this occurred at the same location.
There were tornadoes and tornado warnings in northern Illinois that evening, including metro Chicago. If Amtrak held a train, or didn't send it out of Chicago Union Station, rather than send it out into a major windstorm, I don't think most people would hold that against them.
I spent part of that evening in the bathroom (windowless interior room) with my wife and dog due to tornado warnings. My phone and my wife's phone rang with weather alerts. I'm sure the people on that train were getting them too, and I'm fairly sure very few of them were thinking "I'd be better off driving in this weather!"
Is there a relation between these incidents on the NEC and the time of day? My daughter and I have an appointment in New York in a couple of weeks, and I've been checking the morning NEC trains in the AMSAD data base for delay history. Basically, I'm looking at 2150, 2152, 2154, 170, and 130. These are trains that leave Washington between 5 AM and 7 AM. Over the past month, even with these incidents, none of these trains have arrived into NYP more than 15 minutes late (usually a lot less that that, often early.) Are the issue related to the fact that the wires heat up as the day progresses? Should we be careful to avoid taking the last possible train home in the evening? We were hoping to do something in New York after the appointment.
Amtrak still sent out all trains I believe, but even after the storm passed trains were operating at very reduced speeds and had to stop for long periods of times, resulting in multiple corridor trains with 4+ hour delays. I don't blame Amtrak, but I think a car would probably be much much faster.
JuniusLivonius
Train Attendant
A, 1 - 4, B
This is the 6-track section from Rahway to Linden
From the perspective of the image, as it's looking southeast, it's backwards: B, 4 - 1, A; A and 1 are on a separate bridge in the back.
