It shouldn't be sticker shock when you consider what it costs for a steak dinner plus an alcoholic drink plus dessert at any half decent terrestrial restaurant.
New train (40-41 Floridian) between Miami and Chicago via Washington DC
- Thread starter danlb_2000
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I cannot see this new Floridian attracting many travelers from Chicago to Miami. The original Floridian/ South Wind train was one overnight over two days. The new route would make this two overnights over three days. I don't believe that is a good move. Furthermore, the old route stopped at Nashville, Louisville, Birmingham. Montgomery, Valdosta, Waycross and cities not served by the new route. IMO, a more direct N-S route is needed.
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They are also supposed to restore daily Cardinal. Been hearing rumors for I don't know how long about route that would come through Louisville. At this point it seems like we're just throwing money at research with no physical results to achieve these.For those who pine for a direct Chicago-Miami routing, similar to the defunct City of Miami or the original Floridian, check out the FRA LD Study on restoring this route. https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org/meeting-materials/
It made the list of 15 "preferred routes", but the early estimates are that it will cost a cool $3 Billion to get it up and running. I think Chicago/DC/FL will have to do, at least in my lifetime.
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Exvalley
Conductor
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Chicago to Florida is also very cheap in terms of airfare prices.
That said, it still can serve the original routes quite well (except for a connection now to get north of DC).
And just about all of the pre Superliner trains and pre Amtrak ones.
trimetbusfan
OBS Chief
It’s a very common practice on the starlight. They have dropped off supplies for the cafe (and sometimes the dining car) at Oakland on every trip I have rode in recent years. I usually ride northbound, but have take a few southbound as well
toddinde
OBS Chief
All pre-Amtrak sleepers were single level and most sleeping cars in the world are single level, so it’s hardly unprecedented.
toddinde
OBS Chief
The Canadian as well; three nights.
Other than the SSL, what would be the advantage of a Superliner train for multi night overnight travel as far as "on board" goes? I actually think the VL accommodations are preferable.
Why are you assuming that the only market being served is the endpoints? A train, unlike an airline flight, serves many markets. This train will not be just serving Chicago to Miami traffic. It will also serve Pittsburgh to Raleigh and Cumberland to Jacksonville, just to name two other markets served.
Could Amtrak have left the CL unchanged and made the Silver Star a Washington to Florida train? Of course but presumably they saw marketing advantages to combining them during the period that the Silver Star can't go to New York.
To put my two cents in: I know this is a (probably) temporary thing, but I am kinda excited for it! Had been going back and forth about doing an Amtrak odyssey from NC back to MN for Thanksgiving, which I did last year for the first time for Christmas; was also my first-ever Roomette experience (Capitol Limited). Long story short, due to the time and expense I had given up on it this time around, but when the Floridian came out, sleeper prices were actually lower (!) from Raleigh to Chicago than had been advertised from DC to Chicago on the CL, and I think even a tish better than the Cardinal. So now my girlfriend and I (her first sleeper experience, too!) will get to take the Floridian directly from Raleigh to Chicago, and, in more excitement for me, the new Borealis to St. Paul!
Prior to the CL and Star being combined, getting to the Midwest from the Triangle of NC entailed for me an extra overnight on the way to the Midwest! The Star from Raleigh was not a guaranteed connection to the westbound CL out of DC (I mean, one could book separate legs, but not smart, especially given how late the Star often is). Taking the Cardinal requires an early morning Crescent out of Greensboro.* So to get to Chicago and then to MN, that meant taking the Star or Carolinian to D.C. staying overnight, and taking the CL the next day, or taking the Piedmont or Carolinian to Greensboro (or driving) and staying overnight before catching the 7:30 a.m. Crescent north to either Charlottesville or D.C. The Floridian is a real improvement for Midwest destinations for the ~1.5 million residents of the Research Triangle region, and for the other stops in NC!
*I know that instead of taking the train to Greensboro, one could also theoretically rise very early and drive the ~hour-ish to Greensboro from the Durham-Chapel Hill area to arrive in advance of the 7:30 Crescent, but in addition to being very inconvenient and having to park my car for 5+ days far from my home, I don't have the time and $ to take Amtrak both ways, so I would have to get a ride back to Greensboro after returning home, just to get my car!
(Yes, I am also aware that one could theoretically take the Crescent to New Orleans and then take the CONO up to Chicago, but that's obviously going rather backwards by going way far south and also too far west, and then coming all the way back north!)
Prior to the CL and Star being combined, getting to the Midwest from the Triangle of NC entailed for me an extra overnight on the way to the Midwest! The Star from Raleigh was not a guaranteed connection to the westbound CL out of DC (I mean, one could book separate legs, but not smart, especially given how late the Star often is). Taking the Cardinal requires an early morning Crescent out of Greensboro.* So to get to Chicago and then to MN, that meant taking the Star or Carolinian to D.C. staying overnight, and taking the CL the next day, or taking the Piedmont or Carolinian to Greensboro (or driving) and staying overnight before catching the 7:30 a.m. Crescent north to either Charlottesville or D.C. The Floridian is a real improvement for Midwest destinations for the ~1.5 million residents of the Research Triangle region, and for the other stops in NC!
*I know that instead of taking the train to Greensboro, one could also theoretically rise very early and drive the ~hour-ish to Greensboro from the Durham-Chapel Hill area to arrive in advance of the 7:30 Crescent, but in addition to being very inconvenient and having to park my car for 5+ days far from my home, I don't have the time and $ to take Amtrak both ways, so I would have to get a ride back to Greensboro after returning home, just to get my car!
(Yes, I am also aware that one could theoretically take the Crescent to New Orleans and then take the CONO up to Chicago, but that's obviously going rather backwards by going way far south and also too far west, and then coming all the way back north!)
Actually, four nights…
That's not the reason for the new train. The main reason for the change is either (according to Amtrak) reducing congestion in the East River tunnels or (according to other reports), freeing up more Superliner equipment for Western trains. Whichever, the Chicago-Florda thru service is merely a fortunate consequence. of the change. While I'd prefer a more direct Chicago-Florida route, that's not going to happen anytime soon, and in the meantime, providing thru service for passengers who want it will not hurt anything.
I dunno. I spend four consecutive nights in a single level sleeper on a regular basis.
I find both the traditional roomettes on the Canadian and Viewliner roomettes to be more comfortable than Superliner roomettes. The advantage of the Superliner trains are the amenities, particularly the Sightseer Lounge, not the sleeping accommodations.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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Indeed, all of the FRA study stuff is speculative and belongs in the future speculation thread, and not this thread.
MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please focus this thread on the Floridian that is starting in November and direct discussion of FRA Study proposed trains to the FRA Study thread.
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glensfallsse
Service Attendant
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With my home station being Albany, this hurts. I now have one option to get to Florida instead of two. And with the Meteor departing Miami at 8:10 a.m., that means getting up at 6 a.m., which is no way to start your final day of vacation.
I could take the Silver Star and change at Washington and New York, but Amtrak would want a long layover in Washington and I doubt they'd guarantee the connection. Besides, that's a rugged day of travel for a guy my age.
How many trains per day go through the East River Tunnels? Isn't it hundreds? Is this one train really going to make a difference?
I could take the Silver Star and change at Washington and New York, but Amtrak would want a long layover in Washington and I doubt they'd guarantee the connection. Besides, that's a rugged day of travel for a guy my age.
How many trains per day go through the East River Tunnels? Isn't it hundreds? Is this one train really going to make a difference?
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Could they not just run a 3rd sleeper from Chicago to DC, then turn it back, seems like that would be 3 needed. Also, maybe add another Coach as well attach both on the rear and cut them in DC?
The connections are loaded for 40/41, so you can check them.
The guaranteed connection at WAS from 40 to NYP is either Acela 2122 with a 2:24 layover or NE Regional 196 with a 3:04 layover. That is consistent with the 2 hour minimum guideline for LD to NEC connections. There are no guaranteed connections to Albany listed.
Improving equipment utilization and freeing up badly needed Superliners for western trains is at least as much of a consideration as closing one of the East River Tunnels. It's a "two birds with one stone" solution.
Forgive me if I am less than sympathetic that you only have one long distance train option now. That's all anyone anywhere else in the country has, at best, so welcome to the club.
Found two more FLOR Bedroom fares, so here's a revised chart:
Suspect there's another Bedroom fare between the lower two, hence the space. Also suspect there's two additional fares for both sleepers if the present pattern of either 5 or 8 buckets holds.
Suspect there's another Bedroom fare between the lower two, hence the space. Also suspect there's two additional fares for both sleepers if the present pattern of either 5 or 8 buckets holds.
Sue, assuming all purchase costs equal. However, what if you can purchase three single level cars for the price of two bilevels we don't know this info.
Anything north of NYC often had you switching at WAS instead of NYP anyway.
I agree with your whole post, but wanted to add that the equipment would not have been an issue had Amtrak not completely bungled the rehab of the mothballed cars from over four years ago. I don't understand what is going on. Of course, the present VII issues are a separate problem, but there should be dozens more cars in revenue service right now.
Yes - a trip I make once or twice per year between west of Chicago and south of DC just went from 3 trains to 2. The shaving of some hours and removing the additional uncertainty of one connection will mean I can do this trip a little more often, too.
As much as I would love to drop in for some Cuban food, I probably won't ever ride close to Miami.
PaulM
Engineer
Among all the doom and gloom regarding the new service, I can't help but think it was designed specifically for me. I live in Illinois and snowbird in the Tampa Bay area; and this makes it so much easier.
Prior to #40, there wasn't even a train connection from Tampa to Chicago. The Star is scheduled to arrive in WAS at 3:04PM; and the Cap Ltd depart WAS at 4:05PM, a 1:01 layover, therefore not a legal connection. To make the trip, you would have to take a thruway bus to Orlando, then Silver Meteor arriving in WAS at 7:25AM. Now to my way of thinking getting up showering, having breakfast, and getting ready do de-train by 7:25 is not my idea of a civilized way to travel.
Granted, you could take the bus to Orlando, the Meteor to NYP, and the LSL to Chicago. I've done this several times. But still not an all train itinerary.
Now if one can throw their bike under the thruway bus from TPA to Clearwater/STP, I'm all set.
Prior to #40, there wasn't even a train connection from Tampa to Chicago. The Star is scheduled to arrive in WAS at 3:04PM; and the Cap Ltd depart WAS at 4:05PM, a 1:01 layover, therefore not a legal connection. To make the trip, you would have to take a thruway bus to Orlando, then Silver Meteor arriving in WAS at 7:25AM. Now to my way of thinking getting up showering, having breakfast, and getting ready do de-train by 7:25 is not my idea of a civilized way to travel.
Granted, you could take the bus to Orlando, the Meteor to NYP, and the LSL to Chicago. I've done this several times. But still not an all train itinerary.
Now if one can throw their bike under the thruway bus from TPA to Clearwater/STP, I'm all set.
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Absolutely agree. Amtrak completely bungled their COVID response, although I cannot help but suspect some of that was Anderson not letting a crisis go to waste in his pursuit of dismantling the LDs. After COVID and the Congressional mandate to return to 2019 service frequencies, there were a bunch of otherwise serviceable cars sitting because there weren't enough mechanics to just do COTS inspections! Management wanted to continue triweekly indefinitely and that seems how their equipment planning and staffing was oriented. That is, though, until Congress slapped them and mandated daily. They were far short of roadworthy equipment to run the trains daily as they had been before. We are still suffering from Anderson's decisions. While he is gone, he managed to kneecap the LDs in ways that persisted long after his departure.
However, with that said, wreck losses have reduced the Superliner fleet to a point where it would take virtually every serviceable and repairable car to barely cover what were "normal" consists in 2019. So those Superliners really are needed on the western trains.
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Well CHI-MIA isnt the point of the new route. Just a bonus for railfans
