Amtrak grade crossing incident

This time train 74 with a p-42 hits a police car at Greensboro. One word comment "CLUNK"

Check video as Amtrak pushes the car down the track. Car did not appear to ever go off track. Ridiculous/

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/t...losed/83-bc7590bd-2447-41b2-a7d8-e9cc7351dff3

Not sure if that's gonna buff out, but at least no one was hurt.

Normally, it's never good news for someone who runs into a police car, but maybe it's different in this case. At least it wasn't a case of a cop trying to beat a descending crossing gate.

The policeman was certain that the train would stop for the blue light. He was almost correct as the train appears to have stopped blocking the crossing. How many cars on that train? What appears is that the car was parked on the tracks pointed parallel to the tracks. Otherwise why would the police car travel along the tracks.

MARC Rider said:

Normally, it's never good news for someone who runs into a police car, but maybe it's different in this case. At least it wasn't a case of a cop trying to beat a descending crossing gate.

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Looked to me he was stopped between the gates. Not too smart if you ask me.

AmtrakBlue said:

Looked to me he was stopped between the gates. Not too smart if you ask me.

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I hope the engineer didn't get a ticket!

IMHO the police department dispatcher should have known to call the railroad. Additionally, the officer at the grade crossing should have known or been trained to know to directly call the railroad using the number posted near the crossing.

A similar case happened in Michigan though in that case the police dispatcher called the wrong railroad.

IMHO operation lifesaver or somone should pay for a series of public service announcements letting people know what to do if your car is stuck on the tracks. This is a different scenario than people driving around the gates.

Steve4031 said:

IMHO operation lifesaver or somone should pay for a series of public service announcements letting people know what to do if your car is stuck on the tracks. This is a different scenario than people driving around the gates.

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I know railroad social medias have posted about this. I have seen multiple videos and ads that say to call the number on the blue sign.


Sad how people still bet on trains stopping in time.

Fortunate no one was detained or arrested in the back of the cruiser. What is it with police that think they can park on the tracks while investigating something else?

UserNameRequired said:

Fortunate no one was detained or arrested in the back of the cruiser. What is it with police that think they can park on the tracks while investigating something else?

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Honestly my frustration and disappointment in these situations is large. I'm just gonna keep it at that...

Cal said:

Honestly my frustration and disappointment in these situations is large. I'm just gonna keep it at that...

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What needs to be done is: Send the officer involved back to repeat the state certification program. Officer has to pay. Then pass the word to every police agency in the state.

UserNameRequired said:

What is it with police that think they can park on the tracks while investigating something else?

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While as a whole, I respect and appreciate law enforcement officers for their service, I dislike the arrogance displayed by some of them, parking any place they feel like, even when not covering an emergency, often blocking other traffic. Just because “they can”, and are just too lazy to park properly…

Steve4031 said:

IMHO the police department dispatcher should have known to call the railroad. Additionally, the officer at the grade crossing should have known or been trained to know to directly call the railroad using the number posted near the crossing.

A similar case happened in Michigan though in that case the police dispatcher called the wrong railroad.

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Nope. The police dispatcher should not make the call for exactly the comment about the Michigan event. The cop in the car or first responder to whatever is blocking the crossing should look for and find the LITTLE BLUE SIGN on the pole supporting the crossing warning and CALL THAT NUMBER. The sign has all the information needed for the railroad to call trains approaching that crossing. Doing anything else will delay the transfer of information even if they do know which railroad company to call. And, by the way, to park the car on the railroad with lights flashing is simply an exercise in stupidity. Simple physics, the coefficient of friction between steel wheel on steel rail is much less than that between rubber tier and concrete or asphalt payment, so the stopping rate of trains is lower than the stopping rate of road vehicles. That is also a significant factor in the difference in fuel consumption per ton-mile between train and truck.

George Harris said:

Nope. The police dispatcher should not make the call for exactly the comment about the Michigan event. The cop in the car or first responder to whatever is blocking the crossing should look for and find the LITTLE BLUE SIGN on the pole supporting the crossing warning and CALL THAT NUMBER. The sign has all the information needed for the railroad to call trains approaching that crossing. Doing anything else will delay the transfer of information even if they do know which railroad company to call. And, by the way, to park the car on the railroad with lights flashing is simply an exercise in stupidity. Simple physics, the coefficient of friction between steel wheel on steel rail is much less than that between rubber tier and concrete or asphalt payment, so the stopping rate of trains is lower than the stopping rate of road vehicles. That is also a significant factor in the difference in fuel consumption per ton-mile between train and truck.

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I agree with you. It was idiotic for the police officer to park his car on the tracks. He should have used the number on the blue sign to notify the railroad to stop the train to protect whatever was he was trying to protect with his police car.

The abject stupidity of parking on or near the tracks boggles the mind. Engineers seeing red and blue flashers ahead presume the incident to not be on the tracks. It takes just a couple of seconds to light a couple of Fusees and drop them on the tracks. A red glare is visible for much farther away than the actual flame. Any Engineer will reduce speed and apply brakes immediately upon detecting the red glow.

I also cannot believe these mooks were not trained to short the tracks with jumper cables. This will set the block signals in both directions to Red (STOP), and set blocks further away to restrictive (slowing) aspects. Likely there is an error displayed at Dispatch for that block's going "Occupied" with no notice.

There is also a sign with an 800 number and crossing ID. You call them, explain the issue. While it is usually for reporting crossing signal problems, the operator will contact the RR forthwith .But parking anything within 4 feet either side of the tracks is idiocy.

Won't be much help if a train is already occupying that block, but a couple of Fusees burning will get an Engineer's immediate attention.

Bush league, this.

drdumont said:

I also cannot believe these mooks were not trained to short the tracks with jumper cables. This will set the block signals in both directions to Red (STOP), and set blocks further away to restrictive (slowing) aspects. Likely there is an error displayed at Dispatch for that block's going "Occupied" with no notice.

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NO! This is not reliable. You may not get a sufficiently good electrical connection to short the circuit. The wheel to rail contact pressure is measured in tons as opposed to a few pounds for the jumper cable clamps. Plus, it is absolutely useless on non-signaled track. Also, even if it gets the crossing lights and so forth going, that does not mean it has jumped the track circuit. When this happens you will be giving everyone a sense of confidence that is the exact opposite of reality. as if the train crew sees the lights working the logical conclusion is that all is good.

The fusees could be a good idea, but not much use if right at the point of blockage. Send a person up the track with the fusee not yet lit for at least one-half mile in both directions. Stay with it with the fusee unlit until you hear a train coming. Then light it and get to the side out of the way because there is a good chance the train will not be able to stop before it gets to you. The guy that went the other way should not light his fusee, but should have an escape path available and be out of the way until he knows the train is stopped.

George Harris said:

NO! This is not reliable. You may not get a sufficiently good electrical connection to short the circuit. The wheel to rail contact pressure is measured in tons as opposed to a few pounds for the jumper cable clamps. Plus, it is absolutely useless on non-signaled track. Also, even if it gets the crossing lights and so forth going, that does not mean it has jumped the track circuit. When this happens you will be giving everyone a sense of confidence that is the exact opposite of reality. as if the train crew sees the lights working the logical conclusion is that all is good.

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And I feel like there are much better ways to get a train to stop than to try tampering with the tracks...

Cal said:

And I feel like there are much better ways to get a train to stop than to try tampering with the tracks...

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I would not have made the comment had I not know about that of which I speak.
ANY decent set of jumper cables with usable clips, when connected across the shiny part of the rail will make a low resistance/low impedance connection sufficient to activate the track relay.
Fusees generate a lot of light, a ton of smoke, the cloud being illuminated by the light amplifies the glow making the Fusee(s) more visible. Shine a light into a cloud of smoke.
You presume there are other people available to go up or down track in the manner of brakemen. My assumption is one person with cool enough head to take actions.
Of course in dark territory shorting the tracks won't help. Tell me who other than a railroad employee or a foamer familiar with the territory will know it is dark territory.
Obviously:
Vehicles should not be left in the path of a train or close to the tracks in the fiisst place.
Signals IF PRESENT are the fastest method to signal danger
Flashing lights MAY be of some help
Fusees are a start
How long will it take to get people to run a half mile up or down track to drop a Fusee?
Calling the 800 number takes time
Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes you are the bug.

Mu suggestions are known and proven.
Nothing is 100 per cent. A train may be running at track speed already in the block, already too close to stop.
You might have crappy rusty jumper cables
Your Fusees might be wet
The vehicle might not be movable even with the 2 or 3 people you want to send up track
Did you even TRY to move the vehicle?
The train may already be bearing down on the site
Your "brakemen" might not be able to run down a right of way fast enough
An incident just may not be preventable

However, comma, doing SOMETHING positive beats just wringing your hands and lamenting

George Harris said:

NO! This is not reliable. ...

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See my post in reply to #Cal
You MIGHT get results. Beats standing around waiting for a miracle.
It is intuitively obvious that getting people to safety out of the way is a priority
A peace officer or someone with a smattering of intestinal fortitude should try to intervene.

Or you could just sit around, hold hands and sing Kumbaya... Maybe someone has a guitar.

drdumont said:

I would not have made the comment had I not know about that of which I speak.
ANY decent set of jumper cables with usable clips, when connected across the shiny part of the rail will make a low resistance/low impedance connection sufficient to activate the track relay.
. . . . . . . .
Of course in dark territory shorting the tracks won't help. Tell me who other than a railroad employee or a foamer familiar with the territory will know it is dark territory.
, , , , , ,
Mu suggestions are known and proven.
Nothing is 100 per cent. A train may be running at track speed already in the block, already too close to stop.

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drdumont said:

See my post in reply to #Cal
You MIGHT get results. Beats standing around waiting for a miracle.
It is intuitively obvious that getting people to safety out of the way is a priority
A peace officer or someone with a smattering of intestinal fortitude should try to intervene.

Or you could just sit around, hold hands and sing Kumbaya... Maybe someone has a guitar.

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Maybe I should count to 25 instead of to 10 before answering this. Since you threw it out there, I will say I might just accidentally know whereof I speak since I have been playing with railroads, mostly top of rail down for most of the last 50+ years. I consider your "sit around hold hands and sing Kumbaya" comment offensive. No way was "standing around waiting for a miracle" in anything that I said.

First, turn your comment about dark territory upside down. Who other than a railroad employee or foamer will know it is signaled territory? I consider the jumper cable idea a waste of time better spent in getting people out of the way and calling the blue sign number. A fairly large proportion of the nominal main track milage in the US is not signaled, making the jumper cable idea an exercise in futility for those lines, even if you magically get the adequate electrical contact. I have heard this idea bandied about most of my adult life, but never with examples of where it has worked. Obviously, you work with what you have, so if you do not have people to run with fusees you don,t do that, but lighting a fusee before you hear the train coming is, again, an exercise in futility unless you literally have plenty of fusees to burn. You don't know whether the train is coming in 30 seconds or 30 minutes or longer until you hear it. Get your designated fusee man involved in getting people first and things second clear of the track until you hear the train.

drdumont said:

I also cannot believe these mooks were not trained to short the tracks with jumper cables. This will set the block signals in both directions to Red (STOP), and set blocks further away to restrictive (slowing) aspects. Likely there is an error displayed at Dispatch for that block's going "Occupied" with no notice.

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I don't know what the train detection and crossing gate actuation mechanism in use is at that point. Often these days track circuit is being abandoned due to their unreliability especially with modern day light weight passenger rolling stock, and replaced instead by axle detectors and counters. Grade crossings are being protected by such too. But such grade crossing are also equipped with intrusion detection systems, so in such a case, in an adequately equipped crossing doing nothing beyond just getting out of the vehicle and away from it, just in case may be the best thing to do. Since there is no way to know what system is in use that might be the best thing to do anyway.

Well an Amtrak’s Empire Service train hit something big in Palatine Bridge, NY. The location is at Lock 14. The train is stopped just west of the lock. Heavy recovery/tow truck on scene. This was a public use area, but after a train hit a group of four it’s now closed to public. The lock is get rebuilt and the construction crew could have gotten in the way. The train is on the south track adjacent to the lock. The north track is open but it’s a stop and get permission before crossing the area.

jis said:

I don't know what the train detection and crossing gate actuation mechanism in use is at that point. Often these days track circuit is being abandoned due to their unreliability especially with modern day light weight passenger rolling stock, and replaced instead by axle detectors and counters. Grade crossings are being protected by such too. But such grade crossing are also equipped with intrusion detection systems, so in such a case, in an adequately equipped crossing doing nothing beyond just getting out of the vehicle and away from it, just in case may be the best thing to do. Since there is no way to know what system is in use that might be the best thing to do anyway.

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All the measures I suggest take just moments. And even if they don't work for whatever reason, at least you tried.