Acela 21 (Avelia Liberty) development, testing and deployment (2018 - 1Q 2024)

[Acela150]

140/108 and 48191 are enroute to Hornell for a pick up on Wednesday the 12th. Should run to Philly as 899(12)

 

[west point]

Has anything leaked out as to what the problems are? The only thing ever heard was the problems of pans staying against catenary. Has any AX-2 sets been accepted yet? Does an acceptance date for these mean the start of warranty? Each vendor's warranty might be different in details.

 

[Acela150]

Has anything leaked out as to what the problems are? The only thing ever heard was the problems of pans staying against catenary. Has any AX-2 sets been accepted yet? Does an acceptance date for these mean the start of warranty? Each vendor's warranty might be different in details.

Besides the issues with the Pans, that’s all that has really been said.

Alstom has been consistently doing work on the trainsets that have been in Philly for a while.

The next trainset is enroute to Philly as we speak. It passed through Poughkeepsie around 930. The power cars for this particular set are 2111 and 2112.

I parked in Race Street today and they currently have a decent amount of equipment that has a wide range. 4 of the new Highspeeds, a charger test train, a Heritage Unit to name a few.

 

[John819]

Will the Acela 21 be in service in 23? Or will it wait until 24? The original cars are showing a lot of duct tape in places.

 

[acelafan]

A friend of mine at Amtrak says end of 2024 for the new Acelas in revenue service. I guess nothing in the US goes fast in terms of rail (literally and figuratively). I just got back from Taiwan and they have a wonderful rail system, including HSR, with rolling stock in excellent shape.

 

[railiner]

I just got back from Taiwan and they have a wonderful rail system, including HSR, with rolling stock in excellent shape.

I hope I get to see it before any “troubles” with China break out…we’re due there on June 10 and 11…

 

[acelafan]

I hope I get to see it before any “troubles” with China break out…we’re due there on June 10 and 11…

Have a great trip - it is a wonderful place to visit!

 

[mfastx]

A friend of mine at Amtrak says end of 2024 for the new Acelas in revenue service. I guess nothing in the US goes fast in terms of rail (literally and figuratively). I just got back from Taiwan and they have a wonderful rail system, including HSR, with rolling stock in excellent shape.

So what's that, three years delayed now and counting?

 

[blueman271]

So what's that, three years delayed now and counting?

Delays kind of seem the norm for recent Amtrak equipment orders. What was the last order that didn’t run into delays? The P42’s?

 

[jis]

Besides the issues with the Pans, that’s all that has really been said.

Alstom has been consistently doing work on the trainsets that have been in Philly for a while.

The next trainset is enroute to Philly as we speak. It passed through Poughkeepsie around 930. The power cars for this particular set are 2111 and 2112.

I parked in Race Street today and they currently have a decent amount of equipment that has a wide range. 4 of the new Highspeeds, a charger test train, a Heritage Unit to name a few.

Do you know if they are still arguing about the amount of Underbalance to be allowed, which was the core reason for the last round of test beyond the pantograph fix related stuff? Or is there something else that is the holdup now?

 

[daybeers]

I thought the latest goal from the NGEC annual meeting was for revenue service by the end of 2023.

 

[Acela150]

Will the Acela 21 be in service in 23? Or will it wait until 24? The original cars are showing a lot of duct tape in places.

Latest that has been told to me was it's looking like this time next year.

So what's that, three years delayed now and counting?

Please keep in mind that the Alstom factory had to close for several days at the beginning of the Covid19 pandemic. Alstom had to go through hoops to reopen the factory to keep production going. However between that and the subcontractors being shut down for Covid, it has had a lasting impact.

Do you know if they are still aarguing about the amount of Underbalance to be allowed, which was the core reason for the last round of test beyond the pantograph fix related stuff? Or is there something else that is the holdup now?

I believe that it's part of the issue. I can definitely tell you that part of the issue is ride quality. It's a European piece of equipment running on an American ROW. Which are completely different, as they found out with the Pans.

 

[daybeers]

Latest that has been told to me was it's looking like this time next year.

Thanks for the info; that's really disappointing.

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This is a thread about Acela21 and not about Ventures. A number of posts about Venture cars have been moved to the thread on that subject that already exists:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...-caltrans-idot-venture-order-2012-2023.51197/
Please restrict posts in this thread to Acela 21s

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[jis]

It seems like Siemens hasn't been having problems with the Venture cars on American ROW. Of course, the Ventures are 125 mph max vs. the 160+ mph max for the new Acelas, and for that matter, has anybody actually run any Venture cars on American tracks at 125 mph, except for a few Brightline test runs?

Your question about Venture Cars is answered at:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...re-order-2012-2023.51197/page-83#post-1003460
There is an enormous difference between 125mph and 160mph specially pertaining to maintaining ride quality. Also the use of Jacobs Truck articulation is new in America with which they may be having issues at higher speeds. I believe the one major thing they were dealing with was how much additional underbalance can be used. This would have a significant impact on the end to end running times.

 

[user 32479]

Just saw the new Avelia Liberty testing in Providence last week. It was doing 75mph when it left Providence. Has anyone else seen them testing?

 

[Acela150]

Just saw the new Avelia Liberty testing in Providence last week. It was doing 75mph when it left Providence. Has anyone else seen them testing?

I hate to be the guy that disputes it. But, I can almost guarantee you that you didn’t.

 

[Amtrakacela75]

this was just announced the other day and saw a few people in the Facebook group mention its because of the deterioration of the fleet is amtrak really going to wait till next year to put the new trains in service? it seems like once a month one they breaking it pantograph and it seems like they cant even run there regular schedule and its only may, with a original date of service start this fall. it seems like they trying to go the appoarch of the orange line of phasing its old fleet all out at once, but will the old acelas really last that long? or is amtrak just flaking on maintenance because they going to be replaced so soon? it seems odd that the oldest acela is 25 years old but the amfleet are almost 50 years old and are doing fine and problaby will reach almost 60 before they completely phased out, even the aem-7 lasted almost 40 years. would atleast like some kind of public transparency from amtrak about the delays, we the tax payers did pay for these shouldn't we know why they been delayed almost 4 years now? even the Siemens units with there faults have been put in service within a year or two of delivery. hope to see something from amtrak soon was really looking forward to getting a chance to ride the new acelas this fall but sounds like it wont be for even longer.

 

[GDRRiley]

this was just announced the other day and saw a few people in the Facebook group mention its because of the deterioration of the fleet is amtrak really going to wait till next year to put the new trains in service? it seems like once a month one they breaking it pantograph and it seems like they cant even run there regular schedule and its only may, with a original date of service start this fall. it seems like they trying to go the appoarch of the orange line of phasing its old fleet all out at once, but will the old acelas really last that long? or is amtrak just flaking on maintenance because they going to be replaced so soon? it seems odd that the oldest acela is 25 years old but the amfleet are almost 50 years old and are doing fine and problaby will reach almost 60 before they completely phased out, even the aem-7 lasted almost 40 years. would atleast like some kind of public transparency from amtrak about the delays, we the tax payers did pay for these shouldn't we know why they been delayed almost 4 years now? even the Siemens units with there faults have been put in service within a year or two of delivery. hope to see something from amtrak soon was really looking forward to getting a chance to ride the new acelas this fall but sounds like it wont be for even longer.

Amtrak's out of spare parts as I understand it, they've been pulling apart HHP8 and units they pull from service to find them. They were suppose to be retied 2-3 years ago and so the small fleet is creating chaos as they can't keep the 16-17 sets the use to in service.
there are hundreds of Amfleets with more cars sharing key parts like trucks. 98 AEM-7 and ALP44 were built, compared to 40 Acela power cars and 21 HHP8.

 

[Amtrakacela75]

Amtrak's out of spare parts as I understand it, they've been pulling apart HHP8 and units they pull from service to find them. They were suppose to be retied 2-3 years ago and so the small fleet is creating chaos as they can't keep the 16-17 sets the use to in service.
there are hundreds of Amfleets with more cars sharing key parts like trucks. 98 AEM-7 and ALP44 were built, compared to 40 Acela power cars and 21 HHP8.

Are parts not able to be made and machined like steam engines? or are the parts more on the electronic side of things that need to be both custom-made and sourced?

 

[nochin87]

Are parts not able to be made and machined like steam engines? or are the parts more on the electronic side of things that need to be both custom-made and sourced?

The more complicated they make things the harder it is to just make a spare part. making a piece of brake linkage for a steam engine is far more simple than for something like the Acela once you take into account sensors and electronics that are all over that thing. I have no real technical knowledge mind you but that's what I can see the problem being with spare parts.

 

[Amtrakacela75]

The more complicated they make things the harder it is to just make a spare part. making a piece of brake linkage for a steam engine is far more simple than for something like the Acela once you take into account sensors and electronics that are all over that thing. I have no real technical knowledge mind you but that's what I can see the problem being with spare parts.

I can definitely see if there a lot of electronics to it its not easy to find other parts and homemaking them isn't something you want to do on something so expensive and complex seems weird that if they have these many issues they can't run the new Acelas as is. from what I saw from previous conversations its already qualified to tilt at the same degree as the current Acela the only issue is waiting for approval for higher tilt and training crews, don't know if the catenary at high-speed issue has been fixed yet. I'm hoping that the fall date is still what they aiming for some people said next spring, I honestly wonder if they'll be able to keep the current schedule for so long with more units having issues and no parts left. I already had a trip plan for September but slightly worry about whether or not it will break down like the few other Acelas I have seen lately losing their pans.

 

[joelkfla]

New Acela's delayed until 2024 -- Washington Post
https://wapo.st/3IIigKk

 

[jis]

If you have difficulty getting access to the Wapo article or don't have the patience to read it, here are some cliff quotes catching the gist of the message in it:

But their delivery has been snarled by multiple delays, including some stemming from unforeseen complexities in testing and computer simulation processes required by the Federal Railroad Administration. Amtrak and train manufacturer Alstom have cited some compatibility hiccups between the high-tech train, modeled after those in operation across Europe, and infrastructure that dates back 190 years in some areas.

The latest hurdle, officials said, involves testing the train’s wheels, particularly at higher speeds.

The modeling of the wheel to track interface is particularly complex due to age, condition, and specific characteristics of Amtrak infrastructure on the Northeast corridor, and especially the existing tracks,” Alstom said in a statement.

The company said it has been “conducting extensive investigations” to ensure trains will operate safely in all conditions. It added: “We are confident that this extensive process will demonstrate compatibility of the latest generation of high-speed technology with existing [Amtrak] infrastructure.”

They also noted these are the first train sets built under an FRA rule that establishes new safety standards for high-speed trains.

Amtrak in the coming months will seek approval from the FRA to operate on Northeast Corridor tracks, as well as for passenger safety standards and emergency preparedness requirements.

 

[Mailliw]

So there's still a chance we get the Avelias before they reach the end of their service life?