Acela 21 (Avelia Liberty) development, testing and deployment (2025)

[pennyk]

From January 6, 2025 forward, please post comments discussing the Acela 21 (Avelia Liberty) development, testing and deployment here. For previous posts regarding the Acela 21 (Avelia Liberty) development, testing and deployment, please refer to this thread, which is currently locked:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...deployment-2q-2024.87162/page-10#post-1057857

 

[Acela150]

Crew Training begins this month.

 

[JuniusLivonius]

Crew Training begins this month.

Finally.

Just finishing off this project though it remains to be seen if other trainsets need the same testing.

Nightly testing of Avelia Liberty between County and Ham came to a halt in the beginning of September 2024 except for a single run last month. Captures of KP2022's radio traffic are when the train is near the turnaround point in New Brunswick.

Night 12/18 - morning 12/19 (2024)

9:50PM - KP2022 is ready west; dispatcher could not provide absolute block to KP2022
9:57PM - dispatcher to KP2022: "here we go"
10:31PM - dispatcher needs briefing with KP2022 (new dispatcher shift)
10:43PM - "good runner, KP" (traction motor sound came through radio making it clear it wasn't a Charger)
11:32PM - KP2022 ready west, good runner, etc.
(NJT #3742 departs later since November so no complaints from them this time)
12:16AM - KP2022 clear signal, good brake test, good runner

 

[JuniusLivonius]

Someone linked from Reddit: https://safereddit.com/r/Amtrak/comments/1hyyitb/acela_avelia_crew_training_begins_this_month/ (safereddit.com link)

Link implies they’re running them nightly again

Nobody said this. In case they were referring to me, all I documented was a single run in December and I suggested there might be more County - Ham testing for each trainset.

However, someone on another forum alleged (on Saturday) that there might be a set out this week for brake testing.

 

[NE933]

Thanks JL. It's not your fault, but these dribs and drabs creeping along are frustratrating. You all know what I mean, Amtrak's lack of boldly taking these trains and really aggressively putting them thru their paces. I just don't see it. And the FRA also just sit back and yawns, working when they feel like it.

 

[MARC Rider]

Thanks JL. It's not your fault, but these dribs and drabs creeping along are frustratrating. You all know what I mean, Amtrak's lack of boldly taking these trains and really aggressively putting them thru their paces. I just don't see it. And the FRA also just sit back and yawns, working when they feel like it.

Just as a comparison, check out the East Broad Top Railroad, where they're restoring a vintage steam locomotive ("No. 15"):

https://eastbroadtop.com/about/

Down in the "Restoration FAQs section, there's this:

"When will No. 15 be finished? Has any progress been made?
Our policy is never to release any estimated completion date for a restoration project, especially in our steam program. The amount of variables in restoring vintage equipment makes it impossible to estimate a timeline accurately, and we want to ensure that our staff can focus on completing the job safely and efficiently. Be sure to follow our social media for periodic updates and announcement"


Just replace "steam program" and "vintage equipment" with "Tier 3 HSR" and the same applies to the completion date for the Acela 2s. And at least with the Acela 2s, we see evidence that they're testing the equipment.

 

[blueman271]

Just as a comparison, check out the East Broad Top Railroad, where they're restoring a vintage steam locomotive ("No. 15"):

https://eastbroadtop.com/about/

Down in the "Restoration FAQs section, there's this:

"When will No. 15 be finished? Has any progress been made?
Our policy is never to release any estimated completion date for a restoration project, especially in our steam program. The amount of variables in restoring vintage equipment makes it impossible to estimate a timeline accurately, and we want to ensure that our staff can focus on completing the job safely and efficiently. Be sure to follow our social media for periodic updates and announcement"


Just replace "steam program" and "vintage equipment" with "Tier 3 HSR" and the same applies to the completion date for the Acela 2s. And at least with the Acela 2s, we see evidence that they're testing the equipment.

Is the East Broad Top Railroad a passenger railroad funded with taxpayer dollars? Do they transport upwards of 30 million people a year? If the answers to those questions are no, which I suspect they are, then the situations don’t compare. If Amtrak were restoring a steam engine for excursion use then they would be justified in silence. But this is a multi-billion dollar contract that is severely delayed and has seemingly been mismanaged. Like every other passenger car order Amtrak has made in the last 25 years. Amtrak should be more forthcoming, the public deserves it.

 

[MARC Rider]

Is the East Broad Top Railroad a passenger railroad funded with taxpayer dollars? Do they transport upwards of 30 million people a year? If the answers to those questions are no, which I suspect they are, then the situations don’t compare. If Amtrak were restoring a steam engine for excursion use then they would be justified in silence. But this is a multi-billion dollar contract that is severely delayed and has seemingly been mismanaged. Like every other passenger car order Amtrak has made in the last 25 years. Amtrak should be more forthcoming, the public deserves it.

What makes you think the contract was mismanaged? Do you have some sort of insider information? And if you did, you would probably be in a good position to direct your criticisms to people who might be able to something about it rather than posting unhelpful criticism to a railfan forum website. Yeah, maybe they made a mistake letting the vendor build stuff before the model was validated and approved by the FRA, but if they hadn't, the project would probably have been even more delayed.

I don't blame Amtrak for being tight lipped about this. When I cook dinner, it's kind of hard to get the job done if all kinds of people are looking over my shoulder, giving me advice and whining about when dinner will be ready. And then they would complain because the roast was undercooked, to their taste. When Amtrak feels they're ready, they'll announce a start date. Maybe they'll have a "soft opening" as part of the test plan to make sure that when they do the inaugural run with the dignitaries on board, there are no hitches. Remember the first Acelas, which had to be withdrawn for some time because of manufacturers' defects.

 

[blueman271]

What makes you think the contract was mismanaged? Do you have some sort of insider information? And if you did, you would probably be in a good position to direct your criticisms to people who might be able to something about it rather than posting unhelpful criticism to a railfan forum website. Yeah, maybe they made a mistake letting the vendor build stuff before the model was validated and approved by the FRA, but if they hadn't, the project would probably have been even more delayed.

I don't blame Amtrak for being tight lipped about this. When I cook dinner, it's kind of hard to get the job done if all kinds of people are looking over my shoulder, giving me advice and whining about when dinner will be ready. And then they would complain because the roast was undercooked, to their taste. When Amtrak feels they're ready, they'll announce a start date. Maybe they'll have a "soft opening" as part of the test plan to make sure that when they do the inaugural run with the dignitaries on board, there are no hitches. Remember the first Acelas, which had to be withdrawn for some time because of manufacturers' defects.

Obviously I don’t have any inside information, I don’t work for Amtrak. But I would argue that the years-long delay and the Amtrak IG report are pretty good indicators that this contract has been mismanaged. If you paid me to build an addition onto your home and I told you it would take 6 months would you be happy if it were still not finished at the 24 months point? Would you recommend me to your friends? Would you say I had managed the project well?

I assume you’re cooking dinner with food you bought with your own money. Amtrak is “cooking dinner” with the taxpayers money. And dinner is numerous years late, so yes people should demand answers.

 

[Trogdor]

What makes you think the contract was mismanaged? Do you have some sort of insider information? And if you did, you would probably be in a good position to direct your criticisms to people who might be able to something about it rather than posting unhelpful criticism to a railfan forum website. Yeah, maybe they made a mistake letting the vendor build stuff before the model was validated and approved by the FRA, but if they hadn't, the project would probably have been even more delayed.

I don't blame Amtrak for being tight lipped about this. When I cook dinner, it's kind of hard to get the job done if all kinds of people are looking over my shoulder, giving me advice and whining about when dinner will be ready. And then they would complain because the roast was undercooked, to their taste. When Amtrak feels they're ready, they'll announce a start date. Maybe they'll have a "soft opening" as part of the test plan to make sure that when they do the inaugural run with the dignitaries on board, there are no hitches. Remember the first Acelas, which had to be withdrawn for some time because of manufacturers' defects.

To add to this: some people need to be reminded that there’s no magic wand that automatically designs a high-speed train to work on infrastructure that was built/upgraded to varying specs over the course of a century or more, which has to be built to exacting specifications.

Remember, much of this delay was because Alstom (not Amtrak) was struggling to get a computer model that could accurately reflect real-life conditions on a railroad and electrical infrastructure that literally pre-dates computers. On projects like this, you don’t know what you don’t know until you realize you need to know it, and when you buy new trainsets once every quarter century, and to a new set of standards and specifications, there are going to be a lot of unknowns that will pop up. Then, as this occurs, there will be a process to not only find out the information needed, but also document that information in a way that (hopefully) makes it easier to figure this out in the future, as opposed to having the answer just live in someone’s head (which is fine as long as they’re still around and have a good memory; but if you’re not going to do this again for 25 years…).

 

[Acela150]

Folks, let's remember that this project is a first for not only Amtrak, but the FRA. I believe it was Jis who mentioned that before.

This equipment is Tier III compliant and Amtrak and the FRA have no dealing with this type of equipment until now. It was a similar situation with the Legacy fleet.

This is NOT a criticizm of either party. Sadly, we don't have HSR like they do overseas. If HSR was as big as it is overseas I don't think their would be as much of an issue.