Acela 21 (Avelia Liberty) development, testing and deployment (2Q 2024)

[Acela150]

Railfans are an impatient lot. Far better to be safe than sorry! Be thorough. Be right. The stakes are incredibly high here. The careful approach to certification will (we presume) raise the odds a successful revenue rollout and relatively trouble free revenue service. We hope.

Indeed they are!

But I can agree with your post as a whole. Hopefully we will see them soon in service!

 

[Matt Johnson]

Halfway through November now and no sign of testing picking up. Still waiting for FRA approval?

 

[Acela150]

Halfway through November now and no sign of testing picking up. Still waiting for FRA approval?

Yup.

 

[UserNameRequired]

I will be in the NEC area in mid-January, 2025. How about another round of rumors/speculation (that this forum thrives on) about whether I can ride on new equipment or not?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I will be in the NEC area in mid-January, 2025. How about another round of rumors/speculation (that this forum thrives on) about whether I can ride on new equipment or not?

I'll take the Over on this! Say 2027!

 

[Matt Johnson]

Apparently they failed some emergency egress test so I'm beginning to wonder if these things will ever turn a wheel in service.

 

[Steve4031]

Apparently they failed some emergency egress test so I'm beginning to wonder if these things will ever turn a wheel in service.

So these idiots who designed this train did not think about the regulations for people to get off of this train in an emergency? Or did the idiots in congress change the regulations?

On the Acela they used metal bridge plates to move us to a regional when the Acela’s computer decided to not reboot in between stations. The same thing could be done with the new trains and the Siemens trains that are being built to replace the amfleet cars.

 

[sportbiker]

Apparently they failed some emergency egress test so I'm beginning to wonder if these things will ever turn a wheel in service.

What makes me suspicious about this type of report *now* is that egress tests are typically static tests done before any dynamic tests start. It’s waaaay too late in the process to be only now doing those tests.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Or did the idiots in congress change the regulations?

That can happen, since regulations follow the law, but regulations themselves are made by the executive branch and published in the Federal Register. The Supreme Court has now thrown a monkey wrench into the game though with "Loper Bright / Relentless," I guess they're calling it, or "overturning Chevron." It's likely businesses more aggressive than Amtrak will try to take advantage of it, as far as I can tell, and I don't know anything much.

So let's look at the Federal Register!

The major rule seems to be from 2008, "Passenger Train Emergency Systems; Emergency Communication, Emergency Egress, and Rescue Access."

Recently we have final rules:

• 11/2020: Texas Central Railroad High-Speed Rail Safety Standards
• 11/2018: Passenger Equipment Safety Standards; Standards for Alternative Compliance and High-Speed Trainsets
• 2/2016: Safety Glazing Standards (remember that one?)
• 12/2015: Passenger Train Exterior Side Door Safety
• etc.

But what about proposed rules, the kind of thing this train might get the disappearing railroad blues about:

• 4/3/2023: Passenger Equipment Safety Standards; Standards for High-Speed Trainsets
• then just the proposed rules that led to the above rules

That proposed rule is 67 pages long in three-column format. You can speed read the summary though...

FRA is proposing to amend its Passenger Equipment Safety Standards to modernize Tier I and Tier III safety appliance requirements; update the pre-revenue compliance documentation and testing requirements; establish crashworthiness requirements for individual Tier I-compliant vehicles equipped with crash energy management (CEM); establish standards for Tier III inspection, testing, and maintenance (ITM) and movement of defective equipment (MODE); incorporate general safety requirements from FRA's Railroad Locomotive Safety Standards for Tier III trainsets; and provide for periodic inspection of emergency lighting to ensure proper functioning.

... but I wonder about that date, April 2023. The Texas one only took about eight months to go from proposed to final, for what it's worth.

Here's the search I used, on "egress," limited to FRA: https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...tions[type][]=PRORULE&conditions[type][]=RULE

 

[Matt Johnson]

Yeah the only thing I really know is that another year has come and gone with no signs of movement with these things. We'll see what 2025 holds I guess.

 

[MARC Rider]

So these idiots who designed this train did not think about the regulations for people to get off of this train in an emergency? Or did the idiots in congress change the regulations?

On the Acela they used metal bridge plates to move us to a regional when the Acela’s computer decided to not reboot in between stations. The same thing could be done with the new trains and the Siemens trains that are being built to replace the amfleet cars.

I think it's highly unlikely that these trains were designed with no means of emergency egress. My suspicion is that if, indeed, there was some sort of test failure, it probably had to do with the crew failing the test, not the equipment. But of course, none of use actually knows exactly what is going on, and I suspect that the "idiots" who designed the train probably know more about train design than random railfans like us who post here.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood." - Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Matt Johnson]

Some official status updates on this 5 year late $2.3 billion acquisition might not be too much to ask for though.

 

[Acela150]

What I can say publicly about “emergency egress” on the new trainsets is that it’s plentiful as far as windows go. As far as the doors go each door has the ability to be opened in an emergency. The windows are differently designed then the traditional emergency window.

 

[John Santos]

The description is vague enough that it could be something as simple as the instructions and warnings on the exits are ambiguous or incomplete or incorrect in some way or don't meet the standards for size, colors, durability or some other aspect, or as complex as the exits can't be opened as they should after a collision and require a major redesign and years of delay. "Egress" includes window exits, side doors and end doors, so the issue could be any or all of them. In addition, many trains and buses have exits in the floor or roof to be used if it is on its side.

What every one wants to know is how long will this delay the introduction to service?

 

[Trogdor]

The description is vague enough that it could be something as simple as the instructions and warnings on the exits are ambiguous or incomplete or incorrect in some way or don't meet the standards for size, colors, durability or some other aspect, or as complex as the exits can't be opened as they should after a collision and require a major redesign and years of delay. "Egress" includes window exits, side doors and end doors, so the issue could be any or all of them. In addition, many trains and buses have exits in the floor or roof to be used if it is on its side.

What every one wants to know is how long will this delay the introduction to service?

I don’t think it’s fair to say that “everyone” wants to know that. Some of us, for example, want to know why we should believe some random post on an internet forum of third- or fourth-hand information, presented without detail or context, that may or may not resemble an actual thing that happened.

 

[railiner]

What I can say publicly about “emergency egress” on the new trainsets is that it’s plentiful as far as windows go. As far as the doors go each door has the ability to be opened in an emergency. The windows are differently designed then the traditional emergency window.

I think the “quick fix” for older equipment that was not designed with emergency window exits, was to simply hang a hammer with instructions to break glass in emergency.

I seem to recall that method in VIA Rail’s Canadian bedrooms…

 

[PaTrainFan]

This Amtrak webpage says they will be in service in Spring of 2025. So, Summer 2025!

 

[Bob Dylan]

This Amtrak webpage says they will be in service in Spring of 2025. So, Summer 2025!

Or Fall, or Winter or Spring of 2026..

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

As of the 2024-2029 Five Year Plan, looks like about 9 Acela II's have been delivered. The count of active Acela I's is down from 20 to 16, with 4 inactive. Two of the 20 active were leased and now none are leased. https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...g/Amtrak-Equipment-ALP-Appendices-FY24-29.pdf

 

[JuniusLivonius]

This Amtrak webpage says they will be in service in Spring of 2025. So, Summer 2025!

Let's look at the history of "scheduled to enter service" claims on Amtrak's website.

That page is actually completely new and has no history before this month: https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/https://media.amtrak.com/nextgen-acela-trains/

In fact, this URL actually has no date attached to it like the previous ones. The "object" (representing this page) was put up on November 27th.

So we'll have to find the fact sheet URL they used to have since I know there's been an Acela 2 "fact sheet" page for a long time. The fact sheet page has been around since 2016: https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/https://media.amtrak.com/fact-sheets/

Go back to the November 23, 2024 capture (4 days before they posted the new fact sheet) and you'll see a box for the new Acela fleet which points to this: https://web.archive.org/web/20241127041734/https://media.amtrak.com/2023/06/new-acela-fleet-2/ (the live URL now redirects to the 2024/11 "update")

The PDF is linked in that page. The original PDF link is actually still live but you can tell by its name that it's from June 2023: https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/FOR_NewAcela-Fact-Sheet-June-2023.pdf (watch them scrub this document now that I pointed out it's still there)

They're not doing anything wrong but they just push the date up every time. 2024 is ending so there is now no possibility of the 2024 target being met, so this is just a change to keep the target date well into the future. With one URL this is actually better than what they were doing before so hopefully they keep current information on one page instead of moving it each time.

I decided to look another posting back. May 2022 Acela 2 fact sheet: https://web.archive.org/web/2023092...ads/2022/05/FOR_NewAcela-Fact-Sheets-2023.pdf ("scheduled to enter service ... in 2023")

That being said I think we are closer to an actual start date. At least they have a season with the year now whereas before they didn't box themselves in anything smaller than a year.

 

[Matt Johnson]

I won't put much weight on any estimate until they start the next phase of testing, which I thought would happen by spring, then summer, then surely by autumn, and now looks unlikely to happen until sometime in 2025 at the earliest.

 

[benya]

At this point I’m starting to wonder if the IIs will go past their service life while in storage. Let’s hope for the IIIs in 2050!

 

[west point]

Here is an announcement from Amtrak about starting service Spring 2025; Maybe this announcement was supposed to be issued tomorrow at the Seattle BOD's meeting?

https://www.amtrak.com/about-amtrak/new-era/fleet-projects/next-generation-high-speed-trains.html

My question will it occur on June 20 as summer solstice is June 21 at 0242h UTC or 2242h June 20 EDT.

Quote from announcement/
"Building on Amtrak’s expertise as the only high-speed rail operator in the U.S. and Alstom’s record of delivering world class, proven, high-speed trainsets" —... Alstom's record on this delivery ???

 

[jis]

According to a presentation at the Board Meeting (12/4/24), qualification testing for the Avelias has been completed and they are about to start pre-introduction training runs etc. Spring 2025 is still on track.

 

[west point]

Any recording of the BOD meeting?