Acela II RFP information announcement

[afigg]

The FRA has granted Amtrak's and CHSRA's Buy America waiver requests for two prototype HSR trainsets (each) to be built overseas. This waiver request is not the recent one that was submitted for HSR trainset components, but the waiver requests that were jointly submitted in late February when Amtrak and CHSRA were still teamed on HSR trainset acquisition. I figure that the 2 prototype waiver request is still relevant to Amtrak's plans, probably not as much for CHSRA.

FRA eLibrary page link: Amtrak High Speed Rail Prototypes Buy America Waiver Decision. (3 page PDF) Excerpts:

This letter is in response to your request dated February 27, 2014, that the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) grant the National Passenger Railroad Corporation (Amtrak), a waiver from FRA's Buy America provision, at 49 U.S.C. § 24405(a)(1), for final assembly of two prototype high-speed rail (HSR) trainsets. For the reasons contained in this letter, FRA is granting Amtrak's request, subject to the following condition:

• At ''Notice To Proceed", Amtrak must provide support for its assertion and certify to FRA that its selected supplier has not established domestic manufacturing facilities capable of assembling the prototypes within a reasonable time.

Interesting bit on public comments:

On March 14, 2014, FRA published on its website public notice of Amtrak's and the Authority's waiver requests. FRA received 13 online comments and one mailed response to this notice. None of the commenters identified a domestic source for HSR trainsets. Of the 14 comments, 10 commenters indicated they were against granting the waiver; four were for granting the waiver. Of the 10 comments "against," four were not responsive to the notice. Of the six remaining dissenters, they mainly disagreed with Amtrak's and the Authority's argument that HSR trainsets cannot be delivered in a reasonable time because Amtrak and the Authority could wait for domestic assembly. While this is theoretically possible, significant capacity and technology transfer problems are probable, and FRA believes that the one and a half to two year minimum delay could negatively impact the schedules proposed by Amtrak and the Authority. In addition, as noted above, assembling the prototypes at the suppliers' nondomestic factories will facilitate the successful technology transfer and training of U.S. workers. Finally, because FRA is limiting the waiver to final assembly of up to four prototypes with the expectation that the training of domestic resources will occur simultaneously, FRA is not delaying or preventing the establishment of the selected supplier's domestic assembly facilities.

Which led me to look for where to submit public comments on the HSR component waiver request which appear to be on this FRA webpage: Amtrak High Speed Trainsets Components Waiver Request.

There are only 3 comments so far. If anyone is interested in posting a comment, I suggest in support, the close out date is December 5.

 

[jis]

Bombardier has decided not to participate in Acela II procurement process.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN0JM20L20141208

 

[Paulus]

Let's hope Siemens is still in and makes a clean sweep just so we can bring back the American Flyer name (clear progression from Sprinter and Charger after all).

 

[afigg]

Bombardier has decided not to participate in Acela II procurement process.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN0JM20L20141208

Interesting. I wonder what the change in technical specifications was that Bombardier decided they did not have enough time to respond to. They could have asked for an extension if they were serious about bidding.

The article confirms that Hyundai Rotem has submitted a bid. I expect Siemens is still in as well, but the requirement is for a (near) off-the-shelf tilt HSR trainset which may leave Siemens at a disadvantage. Would be interesting to get a list of who submitted bids and whether companies teamed up (one with a US manufacturing facility, the other with a operating HSR trainset that can meet the requirements).

 

[jis]

Bombardier has decided not to participate in Acela II procurement process.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN0JM20L20141208

Interesting. I wonder what the change in technical specifications was that Bombardier decided they did not have enough time to respond to. They could have asked for an extension if they were serious about bidding.

The only major change I am aware of, that could have such far reaching impact, is the separation of the CAHSR thing from the Amtrak thing. I have heard from reliable sources that Amtrak has just given broad performance requirements and left all technical details to be specified by the vendors.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hopefully this won't lead to the problems that Amtrak experienced with the original Acela equipment?!!

 

[jis]

Well, it may also be the case that Bombardier is running gun shy after its previous experience trying to develop and deliver equipment in parallel with FRA's more or less capricious Tier II development.

Even though almost two years have passed since FRA talking about finalizing Tier III regs they are not final yet. So who knows what will actually be in the final spec. Under these circumstances it is quite reasonable for vendors to be a bit circumspect. Even Siemens has not made any final commitment to bid apparently. The situation is a bit distressing.

 

[Amtrak172]

I just want to make sure that I'm reading this and understanding this correctly. So, Amtrak is ordering 12 new train sets soon-ish, and ordering 20 more by 2020?

 

[afigg]

I just want to make sure that I'm reading this and understanding this correctly. So, Amtrak is ordering 12 new train sets soon-ish, and ordering 20 more by 2020?

No, the RFP is for 28 HSR trainsets with around 425 seats each to replace the 20 Acela trainsets as a single order. The split order of 12 trainsets, then 20 later was an earlier plan which has been dropped.
The update to the Fleet Strategy Plan in the FY15 Budget and FY15-FY19 Five Year Financial Plan, which was released in mid-February, projects 2 new HSR trainsets in service in FY19, 20 in FY20, 6 in FY21. Of course, the actual delivery schedule is another matter.

 

[afigg]

Came across this tidbit of info in the January 2015 Agenda for a monthly meeting of the US DOT Credit Council. The DOT Credit Council reviews and recommends or rejection grants of all DOT loan applications such as RIFF, TIFIA loans. Their monthly agenda summaries are posted on the US DOT website.

(d) IFA request for a $2.7 billion RRIF loan application from Amtrak for the acquisition of 28 high-speed trainsets for the Northeast Corridor - the Council recommended to the FRA Administrator the hiring of an IFA for application analysis

So $2.7 billion is the total that Amtrak is looking for to fund the HSR trainset purchase. However, I think the $2.7 billion covers more than just the rolling stock acquisition and spares, probably maintenance facility upgrades, possibly NEC infrastructure improvements. This RIFF application may be a moot point if the PRRIA act passed by the House with its provision for access to some $14 billion in RIFF loans for Amtrak and the NEC is included in the Senate version.

PS. I think in the context of the Credit Council, IFA = Independent Financial Analyst.

 

[afigg]

Amtrak is still apparently waiting for the FRA to approve the Buy America waiver. Senator Schumer (NY) poked the US DOT last week to get moving on the waiver approval, although this story doesn't explain why Amtrak needs federal approval from the US DOT. I think with a new acting head of the FRA who had no background in railroads running the agency in combination with a full plate at the agency (PTC, oil tanker regulations, multiple accidents to deal with), the waiver request may be getting lost in the shuffle. A poke in the ribs from Senator Schumer should help expedite the process. OTOH, Schumer could also be referring to getting preliminary approval for a RRIF loan, so Amtrak can talk $ with the bidders.

Progressive Railroading: Schumer calls on USDOT to OK Acela train purchase

During a visit to the Alstom Transport plant in Hornell, N.Y., U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer last week urged the U.S. Department of Transportation to approve Amtrak's efforts to buy new Acela trains.

The $3 billion train project could improve rail safety, Amtrak service and boost the local economy in cities such as Hornell, where Alstom manufactures and services trains at its plant, Schumer said in a press release.

Amtrak is seeking federal approval to purchase the new high-speed trains for the Acela service along the Northeast Corridor. Schumer noted that the Acela service is at a "critical stage" because the leases on its current trains, which were acquired in 1994, are set to expire in the next six to eight years. As a result, Amtrak needs to advance production of its next generation trains, he said.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Amtrak is still apparently waiting for the FRA to approve the Buy America waiver. Senator Schumer (NY) poked the US DOT last week to get moving on the waiver approval ...

I haven't been following this closely at all, but ...

Aren't Amtrak and the car-builders waiting to see if the safety regulations will require another generation of not-so-high-speed and costly-to-operate "tanks on rails"?

If a change is made to modern methods, we can see new technology and European designs over here, to prevent and avoid crashes, rather than bundling up the passengers in tons of steel to survive them.

Are they waiting for some of the Safety agency members to die of old age or what? We've been waiting for new regs since Obama and Amtrak Joe were elected.

 

[jis]

After riding around on ICE-Ts in Germany for almost 12 hours one day on a very twisty turny route through the mountains between Berlin and Frankfurt, I am hoping that something based on the ICE-T is what we get for Acela IIs. Their performance was impressive. The Pendolino based tilt system from Fiat-Ferroviera is far superior in its feel in the passenger compartment than the LRC derived stuff from Bombardier in the Aclea Is. And boy, are those things quiet and smooth even at full speed!

The fly in the ointment is that at present they are limited to 230kph. For NEC Acela IIs they will need to have the max speed upped to 270 or 280kph or so. Not insurmountable, but something to be done. They do already meet the distributed power requirement which I believe appears in the RFP somewhere. Even if it doesn't it is desirable for performance. These puppies can really accelerate> Think of each car having almost a querter of the power of an ACS, and only one or two unpowered cars in a train consist. But then again FRA will have to shed another one of its early 20th century dogmas about no HV bus running the length of the train. Well that they will have to shed no matter which off the shelf high speed electric train is chosen.

 

[west point]

Where is the limitation of a train length high voltage bus stated ?

 

[Fan Railer]

New Velaro Acela concept art from Siemens... seems like they're confident they'll get the order, given their currently cushy relationship with Amtrak:

 

[Hal]

New Velaro Acela concept art from Siemens... seems like they're confident they'll get the order, given their currently cushy relationship with Amtrak:

I would guess all the bidders have a concept art like that. I would not read anything more into it than that. I don't know if Amtraks relationship with Siemans is cushy or not but the winning bidder won't win the the bid without meeting the specifications. They may have to be the low bidder meeting the specs, but I don't know if Amtrak has any discretion on that.

 

[afigg]

New Velaro Acela concept art from Siemens... seems like they're confident they'll get the order, given their currently cushy relationship with Amtrak:

It is a rendering, presumably generated for the Siemens bid. Wouldn't read anything into someone posting it on the net. Where did it come from?

 

[WoodyinNYC]

New Velaro Acela concept art from Siemens... seems like they're confident they'll get the order ...

It is a rendering ... Wouldn't read anything into someone posting it on the net.

Thanks for posting it, Fan Railer. Like the skeptics above, I'm not reading too much into it.

But I liked seeing it.

Maybe that's the main purpose of releasing it. Something to help the "journalists are generalists" to visualize it, get a bit of understanding of it, maybe flash it on another screen where others may like seeing it.

As public relations, to help build popular support for the new Acelas project, I don't see a downside. It's all good.

 

[PerRock]

Bombardier has similar imagery of their Acela 2 train:

It's quite the old mock-up so I'm uncertain if it is till on the Bombardier website, but it was at one point in time.

peter

 

[Fan Railer]

Only describing the relationship as "cushy" because they got both the electric locomotive order, and are positioned to replace the P42s as well, so it would be reasonably unsurprising if they also got the HSR contract.

 

[seat38a]

Only describing the relationship as "cushy" because they got both the electric locomotive order, and are positioned to replace the P42s as well, so it would be reasonably unsurprising if they also got the HSR contract.

Since their factory is in California, and the State does not want anything that hasn't been proven yet, I can see CAHSR going to Siemens as well. Even though CAHSR and Amtrak broke off their joint purchase agreement, it just may turn out that both orders goes to the same manufacturer.

 

[jis]

OTOH, if the cash starving of Amtrak continues, I can see Amtrak ordering something from Japan or China if they are willing to provide a funding package attached to it. That was one of the primary determiner of who got the contract for Acela Is afterall! It is difficult for beggars to have significant freedom of choice when it comes to such things.

 

[Hal]

OTOH, if the cash starving of Amtrak continues, I can see Amtrak ordering something from Japan or China if they are willing to provide a funding package attached to it. That was one of the primary determiner of who got the contract for Acela Is afterall! It is difficult for beggars to have significant freedom of choice when it comes to such things.

Exactly. And that quite possibly what will happen. That Japan or China will provide a funding package that determines the outcome.

 

[Andrew]

Bombardier has similar imagery of their Acela 2 train:

It's quite the old mock-up so I'm uncertain if it is till on the Bombardier website, but it was at one point in time.

peter

Does anybody know which company or companies are likely to get the new Acela contract, and when this contract will be signed/announced?

 

[Ryan]

Nothing other than what was discussed in the last 13 pages.