Acela II RFP information announcement

[Andrew]

New Velaro Acela concept art from Siemens... seems like they're confident they'll get the order, given their currently cushy relationship with Amtrak:

I would guess all the bidders have a concept art like that. I would not read anything more into it than that. I don't know if Amtraks relationship with Siemans is cushy or not but the winning bidder won't win the the bid without meeting the specifications. They may have to be the low bidder meeting the specs, but I don't know if Amtrak has any discretion on that.

Probably some strong candidates for the new Acela Train-sets:

1. Siemens Velaro

2. Alstom AGV.

3. Kawasaki EfSET (Environmentally Friendly Super Express Train).

4. Bombardier Zefiro (although Bombardier is no longer involved in the process).

 

[jis]

Then there are the Velaro and Zefiro clones from China It would be interesting to see if they would be entered into the fray. Maybe, maybe not.

Also, if Talgo can conjure up anything in the high floor (1.25m) category.

Also for the speeds being talked about on the NEC, Hitachi could be in the running too.

It would be really neat though if there were a ICE-T (multiple unit tilting). I really liked the ICE-T rides. In fact they were smoother than the ride on the Classical ICE in Germany. Rode them from Berlin Hbf to Munich Hbf via Leipzig and Nurenberg and back on the Munich - Berlin - Hamburg service.

Incidentally also saw a ICE-VT (multiple unit diesel) on the Berlin - Copenhagen service. Now if there were a dual model version that would work out real well for through service off the NEC to Virginia. Just a thought, though I have seen no indication of such OOB thinking at Amtrak. Also, unfortunately they wouldn't exactly be off the shelf so would probably not be considered at the present time.

 

[Andrew]

Then there are the Velaro and Zefiro clones from China It would be interesting to see if they would be entered into the fray. Maybe, maybe not.

Also, if Talgo can conjure up anything in the high floor (1.25m) category.

Also for the speeds being talked about on the NEC, Hitachi could be in the running too.

It would be really neat though if there were a ICE-T (multiple unit tilting). I really liked the ICE-T rides. In fact they were smoother than the ride on the Classical ICE in Germany. Rode them from Berlin Hbf to Munich Hbf via Leipzig and Nurenberg and back on the Munich - Berlin - Hamburg service.

Incidentally also saw a ICE-VT (multiple unit diesel) on the Berlin - Copenhagen service. Now if there were a dual model version that would work out real well for through service off the NEC to Virginia. Just a thought, though I have seen no indication of such OOB thinking at Amtrak. Also, unfortunately they wouldn't exactly be off the shelf so would probably not be considered at the present time.

Who then do you think will get the Acela replacement contract?

 

[jis]

Who do you think? Why do you th8ink so?

 

[Andrew]

Who do you think? Why do you th8ink so?

I actually think that Alstom will get it since New York Senator Schumer just visited their facility, and talked about the new Acela Train-sets.

 

[afigg]

I actually think that Alstom will get it since New York Senator Schumer just visited their facility, and talked about the new Acela Train-sets.

I would not read that much into Schumer visiting the Alstom's plant. Senators and House members visit companies and manufacturing facilities for photo ops all the time. Whoever lands the Acela 2 contact has to be able to supply trainsets that meet Amtrak's requirements for the NEC. Tilting, >160 mph speeds, no more than 205 meters distance between the first and last axles on the trainset, have floors level with the NEC high level platforms, and so on for a close to off the shelf trainset design. And beat the other bidders on price.
We do not know who are the serious bidders on the RFP nor do we know when or if the FRA will grant Amtrak's Buy America waiver request or when the FRA will issue final new regulations that will allow Amtrak to buy the EMU HSR trainsets it seeks. You can post more when and who type questions, but no one here is likely to be able to answer them.

 

[jis]

I don't believe the safety rule making for concurrent operation of Tier II and Tier III equipment on the same trackage at over 125mph has been fully settled yet either. If FRA cannot figure out how to do that then the whole off the shelf idea is out the window unless the Tier II Acelas are discontinued (or restricted to 125mph) the day Tier III trains start operating on the NEC.at above 125mph.

 

[Andrew]

I actually think that Alstom will get it since New York Senator Schumer just visited their facility, and talked about the new Acela Train-sets.

I would not read that much into Schumer visiting the Alstom's plant. Senators and House members visit companies and manufacturing facilities for photo ops all the time. Whoever lands the Acela 2 contact has to be able to supply trainsets that meet Amtrak's requirements for the NEC. Tilting, >160 mph speeds, no more than 205 meters distance between the first and last axles on the trainset, have floors level with the NEC high level platforms, and so on for a close to off the shelf trainset design. And beat the other bidders on price.
We do not know who are the serious bidders on the RFP nor do we know when or if the FRA will grant Amtrak's Buy America waiver request or when the FRA will issue final new regulations that will allow Amtrak to buy the EMU HSR trainsets it seeks. You can post more when and who type questions, but no one here is likely to be able to answer them.

I don't believe the safety rule making for concurrent operation of Tier II and Tier III equipment on the same trackage at over 125mph has been fully settled yet either. If FRA cannot figure out how to do that then the whole off the shelf idea is out the window unless the Tier II Acelas are discontinued (or restricted to 125mph) the day Tier III trains start operating on the NEC.at above 125mph.

I still believe that Alstom or Siemens will get the contract...

 

[jis]

I thought you said only Alstom was going toge t the contracts. So what caused Siemens to get on your good list?

And prey tell what does my comment about Tier II and III mixed operation have to do with who gets the contract?

 

[frequentflyer]

Per the drawing looks like Siemens have an off the shelf solution for Amtrak. Good for the Chunnel operation should be good and reliable for Amtrak.

 

[Andrew]

I thought you said only Alstom was going toge t the contracts. So what caused Siemens to get on your good list?

And prey tell what does my comment about Tier II and III mixed operation have to do with who gets the contract?

Siemens has so sold so many Velaro's so that's why.

 

[Andrew]

Came across this tidbit of info in the January 2015 Agenda for a monthly meeting of the US DOT Credit Council. The DOT Credit Council reviews and recommends or rejection grants of all DOT loan applications such as RIFF, TIFIA loans. Their monthly agenda summaries are posted on the US DOT website.

(d) IFA request for a $2.7 billion RRIF loan application from Amtrak for the acquisition of 28 high-speed trainsets for the Northeast Corridor - the Council recommended to the FRA Administrator the hiring of an IFA for application analysis

So $2.7 billion is the total that Amtrak is looking for to fund the HSR trainset purchase. However, I think the $2.7 billion covers more than just the rolling stock acquisition and spares, probably maintenance facility upgrades, possibly NEC infrastructure improvements. This RIFF application may be a moot point if the PRRIA act passed by the House with its provision for access to some $14 billion in RIFF loans for Amtrak and the NEC is included in the Senate version.

PS. I think in the context of the Credit Council, IFA = Independent Financial Analyst.

It is my understanding that Amtrak was looking at spending close to $300 million from the $2.7 Billion RRIF Loan Proposal to renew the high speed track infrastructure between Washington D.C. and New York City. I don't know if this is still the case.

I hope, though, that some catenary renewal is part of the loan request, as well as pole replacement. These types of investments are urgently needed and they will help Amtrak (and the rest of the Northeast Corridor) better cope with extreme weather conditions, such as heat waves and torrential rain storms.

 

[afigg]

According to an announcement from Senator Schumer, Altsom has been selected to build the Acela HSR replacements. Amtrak's board is expected to vote this afternoon to award the contract to Alstom.

The news is breaking in upper NY state first because the jobs it means to the region: Schumer: Amtrak to award Alstom $2.5B contract

WASHINGTON – A Hornell-based rail car factory operated by Alstom is expected to be awarded a $2.5 billion Amtrak contract, New York Sen. Chuck Schumer announced this morning.

The contract is expected to sustain 400 jobs at Alstom’s Hornell facility and another 350 in other parts of New York, according to Schumer’s office.

“This contract will add a massive injection of economic energy and hundreds of good-paying jobs for the economically struggling Southern Tier,” Schumer said in a statement.

Schumer was expected to join a representative of Republican Rep. Tom Reed of Corning, local officials, Steuben County officials, economic development leaders and ‎union officials in Hornell today for the announcement.

The rail cars will be used for Acela high-speed rail service on the Northeast Corridor between Washington and Boston.

The Amtrak board of directors is expected to give its approval this afternoon for negotiations with Alstom, which would be finalized by December.

Now we wait for details on what Alstom offered for the bid. And what the status is of the FRA Buy America waivers and the long in the works regulatory changes.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Good ole Senator Schumer! The saying in Washington is never get between him and a camera! LOL

Be interesting to see the details as was said, and to have the speculation start on how many decades it will be before we actually see this equipment in revenue service!

 

[A Voice]

When are the leases up on the current Acela equipment (they have to be returned to the lessor, correct?). Is Amtrak not as anxious to be rid of the expensive-to-maintan and operate Acela I transets as it was the HHP-8?

Pardon me if this was discussed earlier in the thread, and skimming over things I missed it.

 

[Thirdrail7]

According to an announcement from Senator Schumer, Altsom has been selected to build the Acela HSR replacements. Amtrak's board is expected to vote this afternoon to award the contract to Alstom.

ALSTROM?????

 

[Acela150]

Well if Alstom gets it the Acela II's will be just another POS. I hope to the good lord himself that this is some BS. Siemens seems to have delivered well so far with the ACS units.

 

[Hal]

According to an announcement from Senator Schumer, Altsom has been selected to build the Acela HSR replacements. Amtrak's board is expected to vote this afternoon to award the contract to Alstom.

ALSTROM?????

Amtrak likes to go cheap......

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CHamilton]

http://www.schumer.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-announces-amtrak-is-set-to-select-hornells-alstom-as-part-of-25-billion-program-to-build-safer-next-generation-high-speed-trains-senator-says-project-will-create-750-jobs-including-400-direct-manufacturing-jobs-at-alstom-in-hornell-

 

[Andrew]

I wish they would release the height, length and weight specifications, as well as the seating capacity, of these new train-sets.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Well if Alstom gets it the Acela II's will be just another POS. I hope to the good lord himself that this is some BS. Siemens seems to have delivered well so far with the ACS units.

Don't get ahead of yourself!!

 

[jis]

If it is Alstom it would be AGV derivative I suppose?

 

[Fan Railer]

If it is Alstom it would be AGV derivative I suppose?

I don't think Amtrak is looking for an articulated train set (using Jacobs trucks). I believe Alstom DID design a conventional high speed rail train set that they named the "Cordelia" which they used as part of their failed bid to win the ETR1000 contract in Italy. I would want to say that we can expect something closer to that design. That or something like the Pendolino.... God, is that thing ugly though...

 

[afigg]

I wish they would release the height, length and weight specifications, as well as the seating capacity, of these new train-sets.

Andrew, we already know the basic specifications Amtrak sought in their bid. The original spec document was posted on the CHSRA and Amtrak's procurement portal website when they sought a joint bid. I doubt if there were any changes in size constraints when Amtrak went with a solo bid. The width and height will have to be compliant with the NEC clearance envelope, so there should be few surprises there.

For length, quoting the original spec "For Amtrak, the distance between the first and last axles of the Trainset shall be a maximum of 205 m (672.6 feet)." ie, within the length of the axle spacing on the current Acelas. But as EMU trainsets, they won't have locomotives on either end.

For seating capacity, the request was "For Amtrak, the baseline interior layout shall provide a nominal 425 passenger seats." I think a range of 4xx to 450 was stated in the second range spec request, but can't find it. I expect the seating capacity will be in a press release, either this week or after the contract is signed once the negotiations are done.

We'll see if this will be in the new trainsets, although it may be years before it is known for sure (namely after internal photos of the first trainset in testing are released): "An adjustable cup holder shall be provided at each seat such that it does not require the tray table to be in the lowered position in order to be used." Whoo, cup holders! It is America!, cup holders are required.

edit: wording fixes

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yippe, cup holders! Suddenly its the 1990s! Can't wait to ride in one of those babies!