AGR points trip: OK to book family rooms for only part of the trip?
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I'll add one more rant, then return to the more mundane issues of life.
AGR is a really great deal for those who enjoy rail travel. It is not that hard to amass 30,000 points through rail travel, credit card use, hotels, and the like. Those 30,000 points can get you a two or even three night trip in a Bedroom that has a value of over $1000, sometimes way over $1000. There are no capacity controls, so you can grab the very last Bedroom off the train - a room that would have sold at the highest bucket. Try using airline miles to grab the last First Class seat on a trans-Pacific flight sometime and see how that works.
Given that, it bothers me that it is then desired to find some way to scam AGR (and Amtrak) to make a great deal even better: to turn what is, in fact, a two-zone trip into a one-zone trip by booking a fake segment. If the desire is to travel to Portland, then I say, ante up the points to travel to Portland and appreciate what a nice benefit AGR is for Amtrak fans.
AGR is a really great deal for those who enjoy rail travel. It is not that hard to amass 30,000 points through rail travel, credit card use, hotels, and the like. Those 30,000 points can get you a two or even three night trip in a Bedroom that has a value of over $1000, sometimes way over $1000. There are no capacity controls, so you can grab the very last Bedroom off the train - a room that would have sold at the highest bucket. Try using airline miles to grab the last First Class seat on a trans-Pacific flight sometime and see how that works.
Given that, it bothers me that it is then desired to find some way to scam AGR (and Amtrak) to make a great deal even better: to turn what is, in fact, a two-zone trip into a one-zone trip by booking a fake segment. If the desire is to travel to Portland, then I say, ante up the points to travel to Portland and appreciate what a nice benefit AGR is for Amtrak fans.
Ryan
Court Jester
I couldn't agree with this more. If you want to do something crazy like the_traveler and go from KIN-PDX by way of Atlanta, and actually ride all of those segments, then go for it (I sure would). But, no-showing on a segment crosses the line in my personal book. If it were just that, I'd say "let your conscience be your guide", but the risk of it screwing up what is a really good deal for the rest of us pushes me even farther over the fence - do it right, or don't do it at all.
amamba
Engineer
But you are riding all of the segments that you are ticketed for. That is still different then booking a ticket to someplace and then only using halfway to take advantage of a loophole.I agree that we can agree to disagree. Here's my last post, and it is a personal experience which is similar.
I frequently travel from KIN to PDX. If I go directly in a bedroom, it is a 3 zone award that costs 50,000 points, - and may go thru WAS. I instead get a 1 zone coach award (yes, it does includean overnight) to ATL, buy a <$30 ticket to BHM, and then redeem a 2 zone bedroom award to PDX. This carries me from BHM to WAS on the SAME tracks that I traveled a few hours before. However, there is a difference!
Besides riding over 1,000 miles further, by doing this I only spend 35,500 points! So by riding more trains, I HONESTLY give Amtrak 14,500 LESS AGR points! So should I feel I did something wrong? :huh:
I did nothing wrong. I redeemed 3 zones worth of travel.
ceblack
Train Attendant
Sorry to chime in once more... but I'd like to present another hypothetical situation:
What if I paid cash for the tickets? If I pay $2975 for my family of four for two roomettes from Kansas City to Los Angeles (via Southwest Chief) to Portland (via Coast Starlight) to Wolf Point (via Empire Builder), and we get off the train in Portland and never board the Builder, and do NOT seek any type of refund or compensation for the Builder portion of the trip that we did not use ($865 worth)... have I done anything wrong? Stupid, most certainly... but wrong?
I don't think I've wronged Amtrak. They received full compensation for all portions of the trip, whether used or unused.
Going back to the AGR loophole scenario, this is where I restate that POINTS EQUALS CASH. If I pay points for the roomettes I have paid full asking price, the same as cash. Amtrak and/or AGR have stated that 30,000 AGR points (2 1-zone roomettes) is equivalent to $2975. Of course they have also stated that 40,000 AGR points (2 2-zone roomettes) is worth $2110 (for tickets to Portland) or perhaps only $1412 (if I purchase tickets to Los Angeles). At this point, I am just being a smart consumer by getting the most value for my currency (points, in this case).
Now, you could argue that I have wronged the "train traveling public" by denying them access to two roomettes on a capacity-limited section of one of Amtrak's nicest trains. I would tend to agree, although I feel that is a pretty slight wrong. They had the same opportunity to reserve the trip. First come, first served. Tour companies do much the same thing, booking up large numbers of sleepers on primo Amtrak routes making it difficult and/or extremely expensive for others to book trips. True, they release unused compartments before the travel date, but that is generally long after those of us who work for a living and actually have to plan ahead for our time off can use them.
Again, back to the AGR loophole scenario, this is where I would try to book the last leg of the trip in coach. If you do that, I think you've minimized the "wrong" to the rest of the train traveling public. I would feel comfortable doing this.
What if I paid cash for the tickets? If I pay $2975 for my family of four for two roomettes from Kansas City to Los Angeles (via Southwest Chief) to Portland (via Coast Starlight) to Wolf Point (via Empire Builder), and we get off the train in Portland and never board the Builder, and do NOT seek any type of refund or compensation for the Builder portion of the trip that we did not use ($865 worth)... have I done anything wrong? Stupid, most certainly... but wrong?
I don't think I've wronged Amtrak. They received full compensation for all portions of the trip, whether used or unused.
Going back to the AGR loophole scenario, this is where I restate that POINTS EQUALS CASH. If I pay points for the roomettes I have paid full asking price, the same as cash. Amtrak and/or AGR have stated that 30,000 AGR points (2 1-zone roomettes) is equivalent to $2975. Of course they have also stated that 40,000 AGR points (2 2-zone roomettes) is worth $2110 (for tickets to Portland) or perhaps only $1412 (if I purchase tickets to Los Angeles). At this point, I am just being a smart consumer by getting the most value for my currency (points, in this case).
Now, you could argue that I have wronged the "train traveling public" by denying them access to two roomettes on a capacity-limited section of one of Amtrak's nicest trains. I would tend to agree, although I feel that is a pretty slight wrong. They had the same opportunity to reserve the trip. First come, first served. Tour companies do much the same thing, booking up large numbers of sleepers on primo Amtrak routes making it difficult and/or extremely expensive for others to book trips. True, they release unused compartments before the travel date, but that is generally long after those of us who work for a living and actually have to plan ahead for our time off can use them.
Again, back to the AGR loophole scenario, this is where I would try to book the last leg of the trip in coach. If you do that, I think you've minimized the "wrong" to the rest of the train traveling public. I would feel comfortable doing this.
Ryan
Court Jester
Completely different. In one case, you're spending more currency for the extra leg, in the other you're spending less currency. By taking the bailout, you're not giving Amtrak what they're asking for to travel from KCY-PDX. The fact that you can go farther for cheaper is irrelevant.
ceblack
Train Attendant
Welcome aboard AMTRAK's "Analogy Express"! Nothing is finer than breakfast in the Diner!
Today's menu:
AmMeal #1 -- 2 Eggs, Orange Juice . . . . . . . . . . . . . $5.00
AmMeal #2 -- 2 Eggs, 2 Pancakes, Orange Juice . . . . $4.00
You want 2 Eggs and Orange Juice. Do you:
a. Order AmMeal #1.
b. Order AmMeal #2, and leave the pancakes uneaten.
c. Order AmMeal #2, and end up eating the pancakes because you can't stand to leave food you've paid for uneaten.
d. Order AmMeal #2, leave the pancakes uneaten, and hand them to the waiter as you leave, saying "Sir, there will be no money for a tip, but breakfast is on me!"
(In all honesty, I would probably choose c).
Today's menu:
AmMeal #1 -- 2 Eggs, Orange Juice . . . . . . . . . . . . . $5.00
AmMeal #2 -- 2 Eggs, 2 Pancakes, Orange Juice . . . . $4.00
You want 2 Eggs and Orange Juice. Do you:
a. Order AmMeal #1.
b. Order AmMeal #2, and leave the pancakes uneaten.
c. Order AmMeal #2, and end up eating the pancakes because you can't stand to leave food you've paid for uneaten.
d. Order AmMeal #2, leave the pancakes uneaten, and hand them to the waiter as you leave, saying "Sir, there will be no money for a tip, but breakfast is on me!"
(In all honesty, I would probably choose c).
Ryan
Court Jester
If enough people chose "B", then it would be perfectly reasonable for Amtrak to raise the price of AmMeal#2 to $6.00. Most of us have a vested interest in keeping AGR just as it is, so "B" is a pretty crappy option to choose for long term happiness of the group. But, as usually happens, people will get too greedy and ruin if for the rest of us.
