Albany Springfield Boston Train Service

[Brian Battuello]

Pretty sure the Cape Flyer is run by MBTA.

https://capeflyer.com/ (see picture)

Fun train, by the way!

 

[John Santos]

MassDOT made an executive decision that they are opposed to expanding the MBTA's jurisdiction beyond Metro Boston public transportation to include intercity rail services outside of the Metro Boston area so the T will have absolutely no involvement with east west service along either route. MassDOT will coordinate it within its internal rail office as an Amtrak state supported service as they do now with the current services in Western Massachusetts. They've basically already made deals with Amtrak to do two inland route frequencies once the improvements between Worcester and Springfield are built out and they are working the second phase (extension out to Albany) through the corridor ID. Northern Tier is earlier in the process - they are just now writing to apply for getting it into one of the follow up rounds of Corridor ID. They will probably start out as New Haven - Boston via Springfield using short diesel trainsets with P42s and Horizon or Amfleet cars and then eventually transition to Airo equipment in the long term (and probably run through to New York when that occurs.)

So not the MBTA, but MassDOT would be running East-West services past Worcester, but that's more than just Metro Boston. The T currently runs about 21 commuter rail trains each way between Boston and Worcester daily (way more than I expected), but nothing west of Worcester. The only Boston-Springfield direct service is the LSL, once a day in each direction, but you can also take many Amtrak (Valley Flyer and Vermonter) and some CTRail trains between Springfield and New Haven and connect to almost any NEC or Acela from New Haven to Boston or the reverse. This of course takes much longer and not all the connections are good.

The bold part in the quote MUST refer to East-West service via the existing LSL route, not Northern Tier. This is basically the old. pre-Amtrak inland route, except some variations of that went southwest from Worcester or Palmer to Hartford or New Haven and bypassed Springfield completely.

 

[Lcon]

Pretty sure the Cape Flyer is run by MBTA.

https://capeflyer.com/ (see picture)

Fun train, by the way!

It’s a joint between CCRTA and MBTA. The former is the operator the latter owns the rolling stock.

MassDOT made an executive decision that they are opposed to expanding the MBTA's jurisdiction beyond Metro Boston public transportation to include intercity rail services outside of the Metro Boston area so the T will have absolutely no involvement with east west service along either route. MassDOT will coordinate it within its internal rail office as an Amtrak state supported service as they do now with the current services in Western Massachusetts. They've basically already made deals with Amtrak to do two inland route frequencies once the improvements between Worcester and Springfield are built out and they are working the second phase (extension out to Albany) through the corridor ID. Northern Tier is earlier in the process - they are just now writing to apply for getting it into one of the follow up rounds of Corridor ID. They will probably start out as New Haven - Boston via Springfield using short diesel trainsets with P42s and Horizon or Amfleet cars and then eventually transition to Airo equipment in the long term (and probably run through to New York when that occurs.)

The reported game plan is to build off the LSL. Although there has been some discussion of an Inland NYC-Boston route it’s not really moving beyond a single NER run.
Given the Airo sets expected delivery starting next year with NEC probably 2028. An East West would probably start with Amfleet II, Metroliner and Genesis as that’s what is commonly used on the Vermonter, Flyer today
Horizon is more of a west of the Mississippi south of the NEC deal. What happens after that depends on how ambitious things get. There had been talk of electrification. Either way it would likely be Airo sets longer term.
Northern Tier would likely similarly start off. I doubt a first run along that route before the end of the decade at which point Amfleet II /metro and Genesis or maybe Chargers would be more available for additional services.
Today the Valley Flyer and Vermonter both use Amfleet II/Metroliner and Genesis with the occasional F40 when the Genesis isn’t available. Though a longer trip the Amfleet II is much more comfortable than the Amfleet I and has much of the same range of cafe cars. Eventually you get the Airo fleet trains with both the NEC and Vermonter are going to be mid range trains.

 

[Tom C]

So not the MBTA, but MassDOT would be running East-West services past Worcester, but that's more than just Metro Boston. The T currently runs about 21 commuter rail trains each way between Boston and Worcester daily (way more than I expected), but nothing west of Worcester. The only Boston-Springfield direct service is the LSL, once a day in each direction, but you can also take many Amtrak (Valley Flyer and Vermonter) and some CTRail trains between Springfield and New Haven and connect to almost any NEC or Acela from New Haven to Boston or the reverse. This of course takes much longer and not all the connections are good.

The bold part in the quote MUST refer to East-West service via the existing LSL route, not Northern Tier. This is basically the old. pre-Amtrak inland route, except some variations of that went southwest from Worcester or Palmer to Hartford or New Haven and bypassed Springfield completely.

Basically I think the idea behind keeping the T focused on transit in Boston and the surrounding area (yes as far as the cape and Worcester) and not involved in this is the differences in grant writing (at least from when MassDOT explained it). As a transit agency (including yes commuter rail) the MBTA primarily seeks federal funding through FTA capital investment grants that are highly competitive across multiple modes and MassDOT wanted to keep them focused on that - these grants aren’t a good fit for his project due to the competitiveness and FTA’s cost benefit requirements. FRA has separate grant programs for Amtrak and intercity passenger rail (CRISI etc) and has a different process which MassDOT has always handled in house. Plus they felt Amtrak was the proper vehicle for this (and Amtrak also provided some grant match funding for the CRISI grant.)

 

[west point]

The reported game plan is to build off the LSL. Although there has been some discussion of an Inland NYC-Boston route it’s not really moving beyond a single NER run.

This will give Amtrak much needed flexibility. Whenever the shore line is not in service Amtrak can reroute a 9 - 10 car regional train onto the inland route in place of the normal short train and take lost coast line passengers to / from BOS <<> NYP.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The bold part in the quote MUST refer to East-West service via the existing LSL route, not Northern Tier. This is basically the old. pre-Amtrak inland route, except some variations of that went southwest from Worcester or Palmer to Hartford or New Haven and bypassed Springfield completely.

Under Amtrak there were inland route trains that ran Boston - Worcester - Springfield - New Haven - New York and beyond. I don't recall when these were discontinued. I rode it in 2001 when we were in the process of moving from the Philadelphia area to Central Massachusetts. Below is the Inland Route train arriving at the old Worcester Amshack in early 2001 January I think.



Pre-Amtrak there was a service that ran New London - Norwich - Worcester originally by the New Haven RR and continued under Penn Central with the Worcester station moved from the Union Station to a more inconvenient location which discouraged ridership. Ran using RDC cars and lasted until Amtrak.

For a while Amtrak's Vermonter had a New York - New London - Palmer routing over the New England Central, after the Conn River Line was embargoed by Amtrak due to track conditions, which missed Hartford and Springfield. Eventually that was changed to New Haven - Hartford - Springfield - Palmer then NECR as before, requiring a reversal at Palmer, which by the way was never a station stop in the Amtrak era.

Here is a picture I took in July 2005 of the Vermonter at Palmer which had just arrived off the NECR getting ready to reverse and follow 449 which is passing in the foreground. Note 449 has no sleeper! The reversal of the Vermonter was a bit involved with the conductor sometimes having to manually throw switches plus a brake test had to be performed.

 

[blueman271]

Under Amtrak there were inland route trains that ran Boston - Worcester - Springfield - New Haven - New York and beyond. I don't recall when these were discontinued. I rode it in 2001 when we were in the process of moving from the Philadelphia area to Central Massachusetts. Below is the Inland Route train arriving at the old Worcester Amshack in early 2001 January I think.

View attachment 39265

Pre-Amtrak there was a service that ran New London - Norwich - Worcester originally by the New Haven RR and continued under Penn Central with the Worcester station moved from the Union Station to a more inconvenient location which discouraged ridership. Ran using RDC cars and lasted until Amtrak.

For a while Amtrak's Vermonter had a New York - New London - Palmer routing over the New England Central, after the Conn River Line was embargoed by Amtrak due to track conditions, which missed Hartford and Springfield. Eventually that was changed to New Haven - Hartford - Springfield - Palmer then NECR as before, requiring a reversal at Palmer, which by the way was never a station stop in the Amtrak era.

Here is a picture I took in July 2005 of the Vermonter at Palmer which had just arrived off the NECR getting ready to reverse and follow 449 which is passing in the foreground. Note 449 has no sleeper! The reversal of the Vermonter was a bit involved with the conductor sometimes having to manually throw switches plus a brake test had to be performed.
View attachment 39264

The Vermonter never ran east of New Haven however the Montrealer did from 1991 until 1995 I believe.