All-sleeper consist?

[Tumbleweed]

Hmmmm...just had a thought....what if.....there were all-sleeper consists for twice the cost of a coach ticket....it would perhaps allow people that couldn't otherwise afford a sleeper to buy one and would reduce the cost for those who are used to purchasing sleepers at steep prices....revenue wise, it may even increase the total that a combination of coaches and sleepers now generate.....discussion?

 

[Ryan]

Where is the money going to come from to get them, and why do you think that's a better utilization of that money than other needed projects?

 

[Tennessee Traveler]

Remember the Panama Limited? That's the City of New Orleans now. Problem is that when that train was running there was a second Illinois Central day time all coach train between New Orleans and Chicago. Amtrak with current political situation would never be able to acquire enough equipment to run all sleeper trains since there will always be demand for "coach".

 

[FormerOBS]

Does this mean a second, separate, all-coach train for those who can't afford the double price? How about passengers who are traveling on a portion of the route that is traversed in daylight, and not overnight? Or would those folks be simply S.O.L.? What route? Would the operating railroads agree to operate an additional train on that route?

Tom

 

[Bob Dylan]

That's why lots of us wish that the Slumber Coach would come back, a roomette without meals was an excellent way to travel on an overnight trip without paying hundreds of dollars on top of the rail fare in Coach!

Santa Fe ran the Super Chief as an all Sleeper Train with the El Capitan as an all Coach Train running pretty much the same schedule! The Broadway Limited, 20th Century and as was said The Panama Ltd.ran as all Sleeper Trains back in the Golden Days, but by "A" Day they were a sad skeleton of what once we're the crack trains!( exceptions were the Super Chief, now a Sleeper and Coach Train and the Southern Crescent )

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

IF for ONLY the 2X price of low bucket coach! . YES SIR!

.I would settle for a 10 USD per meal voucher and give me a shower lll be happy!

Edit

@ Jim above. .

Yes . the old slumbercoach is a dream for me .

I would Love to afford a roomette by sharing it . Heck I wish there was a app to some how match up folks and nip amtrak in the bud. some times the shared cost of roomette upgrade is VERY reasonable to to all but a few coach only pax.

By sharing a room you kinda make your own slumbercoach.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The slumbercoach option does seem to have plenty of appeal. I personally wouldn't be surprised if Amtrak could potentially sell double or even triple the current number of sleeper compartments if only they had the rolling stock with which to offer it. That being said the anti-rail lobby is already hard at work targeting sleeper services as being out of touch with today's anti-government rhetoric.

 

[crabby_appleton1950]

what if.....there were all-sleeper consists for twice the cost of a coach ticket....i

Would it have a dining car?

How about an all 'dining car' consist, for those of us who might enjoy eating our way from NYC to L.A.?

 

[spacecadet]

The slumbercoach discussion comes up every once in a while. I agree it'd be great to have that option again, but it still can't really take the place of coach. Slumbercoaches were compartments for a single person, so if you're traveling with someone else, you'd still have to spring for a roomette - and coach passengers have that option now. The reason most coach passengers don't buy roomettes now is that they can't afford it, or don't want to pay for it. Many of them are short-haul passengers who have no need for a bed, or privacy.

I'm not sure how many people really travel solo in coach who would *also* be willing to pay a premium of any kind for a private compartment. I'm sure the answer is "more than zero" but I'm not sure it's enough to fully ditch coach and make it worth it for Amtrak to bring back the slumbercoach. All-sleeping car trains of the past assumed mostly origin/destination ridership (the 20th Century Limited only made five intermediate stops, for example, and the first four were pickup only), which most people don't do anymore.

Then again, Amtrak *is* chronically short on sleeping cars in general - they know there's more demand than supply. (That's why they're building more of them, but not more coaches yet.) There probably is about a sleeping car's worth of passengers on a lot of trains who just couldn't get accommodations and are slumming it in coach. But that still leaves 2-3 coaches full of passengers who are there by choice.

All that said, if I was still single, I'd be slumbercoaching all over the place if I still could. I used to travel alone on Amtrak when I was a kid all the time and I went slumbercoach a bunch of times and it was great. I have real nostalgia for those cars, and I actually feel kind of privileged to have been able to ride them; there never were that many and not many people these days have had the experience. I do remember the premium over regular coach going from NY to Chicago was only something like $23 at the time.

 

[FormerOBS]

There was a time when the Twentieth Century Limited, the Broadway Limited, The Capitol Limited, the Panama Limited, and others were 100% sleepers. That practice died around the late 1950's. Not likely that you'll find that kind of market today.

Tom

 

[user 1215]

I've argued (pointlessly, and to much ridicule) that the AutoTrain should be an all sleeper train. Don't care how it's done - but just about everyone on that train sleeps through the night because there is only one starting point and one ending point. People sit in coach only because it's the economical option to a sleeper.

Replacing coach with sectionals on AutoTrain would be awesome. But then there are all those sheets that need to be cleaned....

 

[Guest]

I guess I don't understand why would a sleeper-only consist yield cheaper tickets (guaranteed?) than a sleeper+coach consist?

Are sleeper cars cheaper to buy, and cheaper to operate, when not mixed with coach cars on the same train/consist?

I don't think trains today, except for possibly the AT, are really car limited. The two engines of a LD train can pull 6 coach + 4 sleepers as "easily" as just 4 sleepers, no?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Slumbercoaches were compartments for a single person, so if you're traveling with someone else, you'd still have to spring for a roomette.

Why couldn't two people traveling together simply have two slumber coaches?

The reason most coach passengers don't buy roomettes now is that they can't afford it, or don't want to pay for it. Many of them are short-haul passengers who have no need for a bed, or privacy.

The main reason I rode in coach was because the tiny number of sleeper compartments were already sold out or were being used by Amtrak staff. I also ended up stuck in coach a few times when conductors refused to sell me an open sleeper compartment. Eventually I wised up and only traveled on Amtrak when I could book a compartment before I boarded. When I cannot I simply don't ride Amtrak and they lose that revenue completely.

I'm not sure how many people really travel solo in coach who would *also* be willing to pay a premium of any kind for a private compartment. I'm sure the answer is "more than zero" but I'm not sure it's enough to fully ditch coach and make it worth it for Amtrak to bring back the slumber coach.

Right now Amtrak forces single travelers to sleep with strangers in a makeshift reclining love seat with no armrest or other divider between them. Amtrak also refuses to allow single travelers to buy two seats in order to sleep alone. In light of this absurd situation I can imagine that many single travelers would happily pay extra to get even a tiny amount of personal space and privacy.

 

[Bierboy]

....Slumbercoaches were compartments for a single person...

Not exclusively; they had both one-person and two-person compartments. I traveled on the NP North Coast Limited back in the 60s and our family of four fit in two slumbercoaches....

 

[Ryan]

No need to fixate on the specific Slumbercoach design.

Take a car, put in lie flat airline seats and sell them. In a perfect world where Amtrak had tons of money for rolling stock, these seats would sell well.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

This discussion causes me to wonder what it actually cost to run a sleeper, or actually any car.

Obviously there is the fuel per mile to haul the car. Then the cost of the Attendant per hour. Maintenance and supplies. What else and what does this add up to?

 

[jis]

If you want to see how all Sleeper consists with many different pricing levels of Sleepers is done nowhere better to see that than in India. There are literally dozens and dozens of overnight all Sleeper trains criss-crossing the country each day.

 

[neroden]

There was a time when the Twentieth Century Limited, the Broadway Limited, The Capitol Limited, the Panama Limited, and others were 100% sleepers....

....when there were all-coach trains running only an hour later.

If you want all-sleeper trains, what you need is *more trains per day* on each route. Period.

 

[Paulus]

Hmmmm...just had a thought....what if.....there were all-sleeper consists for twice the cost of a coach ticket....it would perhaps allow people that couldn't otherwise afford a sleeper to buy one and would reduce the cost for those who are used to purchasing sleepers at steep prices....revenue wise, it may even increase the total that a combination of coaches and sleepers now generate.....discussion?

Raise expenses, cut fares, and cut capacity while running a train that will no longer appeal to most of its riders? Yeah, that one's not going to do so well.

As for slumber coaches: Probably a better idea than the current Viewliner set up. Turnover rates on the Viewliners suggest that they're predominately ridden by one passenger per roomette per day. If that's true, you could effectively double capacity over a Viewliner with a Slumbercoach. Fares should be kept to 66-75% of a full roomette (with one occupant).

 

[PaulM]

I would Love to afford a roomette by sharing it . Heck I wish there was a app to some how match up folks and nip amtrak in the bud. some times the shared cost of roomette upgrade is VERY reasonable to to all but a few coach only pax.

Why don't you design one? As far a I know, Amtrak doesn't require occupants of a roomette even know each other.

By sharing a room you kinda make your own slumbercoach.

No, sharing a room would kinda make your own couchette. Now I know that unlike Europe, Jack the Ripper rides the rails in the US of A.

 

[MARC Rider]

There was a time when the Twentieth Century Limited, the Broadway Limited, The Capitol Limited, the Panama Limited, and others were 100% sleepers. That practice died around the late 1950's. Not likely that you'll find that kind of market today.

Tom

I believe the Broadway Limited was all sleeper (in fact "all private room train" -- none of those open section riff-raff!) into the late 1960s. I have some PRR timetables from 1967-68, I'll have to check.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I think the Rep Mica would have a field day with this idea. :help:

 

[Guest]

There was a time when the Twentieth Century Limited, the Broadway Limited, The Capitol Limited, the Panama Limited, and others were 100% sleepers....

....when there were all-coach trains running only an hour later.

If you want all-sleeper trains, what you need is *more trains per day* on each route. Period.

Actually, the Panama did not have a coach train on a close schedule, at least south of Fulton KY where the Seminole diverged to head to Jacksonville. In its last years before Amtrak as sleeper passengers began to dwindle the IC added coaches, but under a new name so as to not sully the Panama Limited name. The coach portion was called the Magnolia Star.

The Crescent was nominally all Pullman Washington to Atlanta, with coaches added south thereof. It did have a coach train on a slower schedule that could pick up the northbound coach passengers out of Atlanta, and I think one into Atlanta not too long ahead of the southbound departure from Atlanta. In its last years the southbound was combined with the Southerner and the northbound combined with whatever the northbound coach closely scheduled was. Do not confuse the Crescent with the Southerner.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Take a car, put in lie flat airline seats and sell them. In a perfect world where Amtrak had tons of money for rolling stock, these seats would sell well.

Trains have advantage of having greater height than airplane cabins. Putting one layer of lie-flat seats is a very inefficient use of resources. There can be at least 2 (for single level cars) and up to 3 levels of lie-flat seats one on top of other for double level cars like Superliner. Of course, at that point it becomes what other countries call sectional sleepers. Give every seat/berth individual curtains (or sliding doors) and there is reasonable amount of privacy, more than airline lie-flat seats.

Example from Indian Railways-

 

[Ryan]

Yeah, I'm wildly disinterested in getting packed into a car like that