Amenities Being Eliminated from Long Distance Routes

[D.P. Roberts]

[

BTW, in the Jan 2014 Amtrak Ink interview with Mark Murphy, the new GM for LD services, I'm surprised no one picked up on this part of his statement on looking at changes for the LD trains: "We will be looking at the dining car model, service delivery model, employee empowerment, sales and revenue incentives, possible new routes just to name a few". Talk is cheap and it probably means nothing, but he did state that for the record.

I'm curious about possible new routes, but a new LD dining car model too? What in the world is that?=

He was talking in context of LD services, the service model for how the dining car operates, not a new physical model of a dining car.

I assumed that's what he meant - a new business model, not a new train car. But I'm curious as to what "new models" he may be considering. After reading the report mentioned previously, it really sounds like outsourcing is the only "model" they have in mind - and Subway is mentioned as a contractor on some routes. Well, they do mention several other models - like actually charging what the food service costs, or implementing a "non-food" sleeping car service - but it sounds like outsourcing is their main hope for making ends meet.

The report also indicates that labor cost is the main problem - both in terms of individual pay and the proportion of costs for dining. I do wonder whether a "Subway"-style service would reduce costs and increase consistency. Interestingly, the report lists "labor unrest" rather than "customer complaints" as the main drawback of a change to a food contractor.

Personally, I'd like to see Mr. Boardman use this politically- "Congress, we agree to turn our dining services over to a contractor and greatly reduce our other operational losses - in dining, as well as other areas. In return, we demand a bill that provides permanent, long-term funding for Amtrak that allows us to maintain and replace our equipment properly, and the ability to force our host railroads to run our trains on time."

Yes, we'd lose sit-down dining that so many people know and love. In return, though, we'd get trains that run on time on reliable equipment.

I'm sure it will never happen, but I think it would be a deal worth making.

 

[roomette]

I'd miss the steak. That's all, otherwise Subway or KFC or some Chipotle I could live with.

 

[lirr42]

I'd miss the steak. That's all, otherwise Subway or KFC or some Chipotle I could live with.

The steak is among my favorite things about traveling on overnight trains. Hopefully it doesn't go away too quickly!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Yes, we'd lose sit-down dining that so many people know and love. In return, though, we'd get trains that run on time on reliable equipment. I'm sure it will never happen, but I think it would be a deal worth making.

Any "deal" with this congress wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on. At this point our congress can't even be bothered to honor previous promises or to pass a legitimate annual budget anymore. Nothing they might promise us on Monday would mean anything on Tuesday. I don't see how we can improve Amtrak's service by letting an even less productive and even more dysfunctional branch of government dictate their policies and procedures through political posturing and micromanagement.

 

[Anderson]

On train distances:

That's true, but IIRC the Palmetto makes up quite a bit of time vs. the Cap (at least) because it's got running on both the NEC and a lot of 79 MPH running, while the Cap has to deal with both the mountains in MD/PA/WV and the approaches to Chicago. Also, the Auto Train is slightly dinged by its lower speed (it runs as an intermodal, not a passenger train).

On dining car stuff:
I know they're looking at tweaking staffing models, and I know they want to go to a cashless system. In all likelihood they'll be stuck with some cash use in some form (I can already see the horror story of some poor guy being unable to buy food because he has no card with him; the best solution I can think of would be to have some sort of "special use card" that can be used in such instances, since the alternative is that passenger having to do a cash swap with other passengers onboard), but adding a POS system should speed things up substantially. There's also the "diner-club" model that's been suggested, which would mix café and diner food service options in a single car.

On dropping the diners:
The OIG report estimates a loss of 345k riders and $93m in revenue from such a switch. Put another way, even if axing the diners would eliminate 100% of food service losses, it would probably be a losing proposition for Amtrak by a wide margin. My best guess is it would gut the western LD trains' ridership rather spectacularly, while leaving some of the eastern routes in workable shape (such as the LSL or Cap, due to their shorter timeframes and the ability of travelers to get meals at WAS, CHI, and NYP).

There are possibly a few cases where the damage would be limited, such as the SAS-NOL section of the Sunset Limited. Doing this would allow a realignment of the diners to run CHI-SAS-LAX...which is roughly in line with the Daily Sunset proposal IIRC.

On OBS pay and so forth:
If Amtrak could trim pay back by 10% in real terms over a few years (possibly by "just" limiting pay increases), you'd at least have the LD diners moving into seasonal profitability. I believe pay should be a bit above the other operations listed (it is notable that VIA Rail is excluded, while none of the other operations run overnight services; differences in the US/Canadian labor markets are also not addressed), but at the same time it might be possible to get Amtrak's numbers closer to $40/hr.

-Of course, there's a fallacy in the data provided insofar as there's only one LSA while there are often 2-4 other OBS...averaging them likely distorts the numbers a bit on the high side.

-I also can't tell if the 180 hour figure included held-away time and so forth. I would assume it does. Of note, a minor tweak might be to reduce the 180 hour number back to 170-175. Technically, a full-time OBS employee is paid for 41.5 hours per "average" week (versus the 40 hours in a "standard" workweek). That tweak alone would be worth 3-5% in labor costs.

 

[tonys96]

This says the complimentary champagne, and wine and cheese cost $428,000 annually for the three routes that have it. and there are free meals to employees on PERSONAL travel on just ONE route cost over $260,000! So the "savings" would be over 50% higher if the free "extras" given to people on personal travel on an employee pass on just this one route were cut also. Let me see.......free "extras" to those riding for free, but none for paying customers. Make sense?

The one route is the Auto Train, where all passenger receive free meals (so your statement about free extras for passriders but not for paying customers is false).On other routes, if an employee rides in business travel space, they do not get free meals. If they are in revenue space, they do get free meals, but actually have to pay for the sleeper at the employee rate (80% of the public fare).

OIG report stated that FREE riders on AT getting FREE meals cost Amtrak over half what it costs to provide 'extras' to all paying customers on three routes. Period. No amount of spin changes that fact. But, that did not get cut. 'Extras' for paying customers did.

 

[user 1215]

On train distances:

That's true, but IIRC the Palmetto makes up quite a bit of time vs. the Cap (at least) because it's got running on both the NEC and a lot of 79 MPH running, while the Cap has to deal with both the mountains in MD/PA/WV and the approaches to Chicago. Also, the Auto Train is slightly dinged by its lower speed (it runs as an intermodal, not a passenger train).

Just to quantify - the Palmetto runs 14 hours and 45 minutes vs the Capitol 16 hours; 829 miles vs 780, respectively.
Maybe the solution is to run Amfleets on the Capitol Limited, run it as a day train, eliminate the sleepers and diner? Of course, one reason why I would hesitate to take the Palmetto from SAV to NYP is that 15 hours without a real diner is a drag. I've done it once, and it gets miserable dining on cafe car food for three meals - and on a busy train, to be told around dinner time that everything is sold out.

Again, this OIG report is more focused on reducing expenses than generating more revenue. Very bad business sense.

Auto Train actually has its own speed designation on CSX timetables. Whereas Passenger Trains are 79 MPH, and intermodal (and all) freights are 59 MPH, the Auto Train gets its own speedlimit of 70 MPH (where applicable).

On Outsourcing:

WAFFLE HOUSE

 

[Anderson]

tonys96, on 11 Feb 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Trogdor, on 10 Feb 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

tonys96, on 10 Feb 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:This says the complimentary champagne, and wine and cheese cost $428,000 annually for the three routes that have it. and there are free meals to employees on PERSONAL travel on just ONE route cost over $260,000! So the "savings" would be over 50% higher if the free "extras" given to people on personal travel on an employee pass on just this one route were cut also. Let me see.......free "extras" to those riding for free, but none for paying customers. Make sense?

The one route is the Auto Train, where all passenger receive free meals (so your statement about free extras for passriders but not for paying customers is false).On other routes, if an employee rides in business travel space, they do not get free meals. If they are in revenue space, they do get free meals, but actually have to pay for the sleeper at the employee rate (80% of the public fare).

OIG report stated that FREE riders on AT getting FREE meals cost Amtrak over half what it costs to provide 'extras' to all paying customers on three routes. Period. No amount of spin changes that fact. But, that did not get cut. 'Extras' for paying customers did.

I'm wondering if the issue here is that the Auto Train diner has no setup to process purchasing meals. Mind you, they could run the cost through the register in the café (or have a fixed-price meal voucher that they'd pay for in advance when booking their space)...

 

[tonys96]

On train distances:That's true, but IIRC the Palmetto makes up quite a bit of time vs. the Cap (at least) because it's got running on both the NEC and a lot of 79 MPH running, while the Cap has to deal with both the mountains in MD/PA/WV and the approaches to Chicago. Also, the Auto Train is slightly dinged by its lower speed (it runs as an intermodal, not a passenger train).

Just to quantify - the Palmetto runs 14 hours and 45 minutes vs the Capitol 16 hours; 829 miles vs 780, respectively.Maybe the solution is to run Amfleets on the Capitol Limited, run it as a day train, eliminate the sleepers and diner? Of course, one reason why I would hesitate to take the Palmetto from SAV to NYP is that 15 hours without a real diner is a drag. I've done it once, and it gets miserable dining on cafe car food for three meals - and on a busy train, to be told around dinner time that everything is sold out.Again, this OIG report is more focused on reducing expenses than generating more revenue. Very bad business sense.Auto Train actually has its own speed designation on CSX timetables. Whereas Passenger Trains are 79 MPH, and intermodal (and all) freights are 59 MPH, the Auto Train gets its own speedlimit of 70 MPH (where applicable).On Outsourcing:WAFFLE HOUSE

Agreed that the emphasis on cutting costs instead of increasing revenues is short sighted. It is reaching over a dollar to pick up a dime.

Also agree on the Waffle House idea!

 

[jis]

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

We endlessly talk about employee morale or lack thereof. Well you wanna kill morale? Go for it. But don't complain when the inevitable consequences come and hit you in the butt!

BTW, I have done the Palmetto its entire length a couple of times now, and yes it is a bit much food wise if you just depend on the current Amtrak Cafe fare. I usually come on board with a good sandwich from an off board source for the lunch and that works out just fine. Shades of the food habits of traveling on current domestic airlines I am afraid, where I seem to be generally eating much better food these days than before. I know it is completely disturbing as a general phenomenon.

 

[cirdan]

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

I recently read that Easyjet had won an award for the best on-plane food or something like that. Interestingly, they are also one of the few airlines who genuinely charge for all food and drinks. I am sure this is no coincidence. If you need to sell something to a customer who can say no, you've got to make sure what you're offering is genuinely attractive. On the other hand, if food is perceived as a freebie, customers are happy to raise their tolerance limits and there is no incentive by the provider to focus on quality.

Actually, I understand that Easyjet actually turns a profit with its catering business, but does not run all its flight routes at a profit. That would imply catering income is subsidizing flights rather than vice versa as is the case for most arlines.

 

[Anderson]

cirdan, on 11 Feb 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

I recently read that Easyjet had won an award for the best on-plane food or something like that. Interestingly, they are also one of the few airlines who genuinely charge for all food and drinks. I am sure this is no coincidence. If you need to sell something to a customer who can say no, you've got to make sure what you're offering is genuinely attractive. On the other hand, if food is perceived as a freebie, customers are happy to raise their tolerance limits and there is no incentive by the provider to focus on quality.

Actually, I understand that Easyjet actually turns a profit with its catering business, but does not run all its flight routes at a profit. That would imply catering income is subsidizing flights rather than vice versa as is the case for most arlines.

Very few airlines run all routes at a profit. Most of them at least have to eat some losses on "feeder" routes which connect passengers to higher-volume and/or higher-priced long haul routes. Likewise, there will always be seasons that routes do better than others...if you look at the numbers in the OIG report, Amtrak's LD OBS does far overall at the summer peak (one month reports $41.24/OBS hour in revenue for the studied routes, vs. $41.19 in estimated hourly wages/benefits), and Amtrak even has seasons that are either profitable or very close to it. Airlines may be less tolerant of such losses now than in the past, but there are routes and days that even the most profitable airline has to eat some losses to keep passengers around on other days.

 

[tonys96]

cirdan, on 11 Feb 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

I recently read that Easyjet had won an award for the best on-plane food or something like that. Interestingly, they are also one of the few airlines who genuinely charge for all food and drinks. I am sure this is no coincidence. If you need to sell something to a customer who can say no, you've got to make sure what you're offering is genuinely attractive. On the other hand, if food is perceived as a freebie, customers are happy to raise their tolerance limits and there is no incentive by the provider to focus on quality.

Actually, I understand that Easyjet actually turns a profit with its catering business, but does not run all its flight routes at a profit. That would imply catering income is subsidizing flights rather than vice versa as is the case for most arlines.

Very few airlines run all routes at a profit. Most of them at least have to eat some losses on "feeder" routes which connect passengers to higher-volume and/or higher-priced long haul routes. Likewise, there will always be seasons that routes do better than others...if you look at the numbers in the OIG report, Amtrak's LD OBS does far overall at the summer peak (one month reports $41.24/OBS hour in revenue for the studied routes, vs. $41.19 in estimated hourly wages/benefits), and Amtrak even has seasons that are either profitable or very close to it. Airlines may be less tolerant of such losses now than in the past, but there are routes and days that even the most profitable airline has to eat some losses to keep passengers around on other days.

Yes. The recommendation to cut staff at under utilized seasons is one that should be implemented, IMHO. But instead 'extras' were cut lowering the paying customer's traveling experience opportunities.

 

[SubwayNut]

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

I can think of witnessing the opposite happening on a plane, I was sitting next to a non-revving, commuting Delta pilot recently on an American Airlines domestic flight. When the Buy-On-Board Cart passed us the flight attendants asked him if he wanting anything. He said the Sandwich which was given to him free of charge, no credit card handed over for a swipe, I assume as a professional curtesy as a freebie he clearly expected.

 

[jis]

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

I can think of witnessing the opposite happening on a plane, I was sitting next to a non-revving, commuting Delta pilot recently on an American Airlines domestic flight. When the Buy-On-Board Cart passed us the flight attendants asked him if he wanting anything. He said the Sandwich which was given to him free of charge, no credit card handed over for a swipe, I assume as a professional curtesy as a freebie he clearly expected.

I suspect it has more to do with Union contracts. But I could be wrong of course. Saxman could probably give the inside story on this sort of thing.

 

[cirdan]

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

I can think of witnessing the opposite happening on a plane, I was sitting next to a non-revving, commuting Delta pilot recently on an American Airlines domestic flight. When the Buy-On-Board Cart passed us the flight attendants asked him if he wanting anything. He said the Sandwich which was given to him free of charge, no credit card handed over for a swipe, I assume as a professional curtesy as a freebie he clearly expected.

The airlines are infamous for having been extremely generous with staff freebies back in the days when it rained money for them. Now they're having difficult backpedalling on that. I had a schoolfriend whose father worked for an airline as a maintenace technician, and the anount of free trips not just he but all his family were getting (including grown up kids who had their own household) was simply incredible.

 

[Ryan]

cirdan, on 11 Feb 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

This business about free riders getting free meals is getting a bit over the top IMHO. I have never heard of an airline charging specially for meals of the people traveling non-rev or on passes, on flights that serve free meals in general. It is nice to know what it costs, but that does not mean it is a good idea to try to recover that cost.

I recently read that Easyjet had won an award for the best on-plane food or something like that. Interestingly, they are also one of the few airlines who genuinely charge for all food and drinks. I am sure this is no coincidence. If you need to sell something to a customer who can say no, you've got to make sure what you're offering is genuinely attractive. On the other hand, if food is perceived as a freebie, customers are happy to raise their tolerance limits and there is no incentive by the provider to focus on quality.

Actually, I understand that Easyjet actually turns a profit with its catering business, but does not run all its flight routes at a profit. That would imply catering income is subsidizing flights rather than vice versa as is the case for most arlines.

Very few airlines run all routes at a profit. Most of them at least have to eat some losses on "feeder" routes which connect passengers to higher-volume and/or higher-priced long haul routes. Likewise, there will always be seasons that routes do better than others...if you look at the numbers in the OIG report, Amtrak's LD OBS does far overall at the summer peak (one month reports $41.24/OBS hour in revenue for the studied routes, vs. $41.19 in estimated hourly wages/benefits), and Amtrak even has seasons that are either profitable or very close to it. Airlines may be less tolerant of such losses now than in the past, but there are routes and days that even the most profitable airline has to eat some losses to keep passengers around on other days.

Yes. The recommendation to cut staff at under utilized seasons is one that should be implemented, IMHO. But instead 'extras' were cut lowering the paying customer's traveling experience opportunities.

The report was also pretty up front about saying that the guaranteed hours agreements likely make this infeasible.
The other beef I have with the report is that using the "if we're as profitable year-round as we are during the busy season, we'd lose $x Million less" is a silly assumption. It's impractical to assume that you can maintain that level year round.

 

[Nathanael]

He was talking in context of LD services, the service model for how the dining car operates, not a new physical model of a dining car.

We already know one change which is already planned: electronic real-time inventory tracking. ("Point of Sale", they call it.) This is supposed to give the dining car staff more time to serve customers with the same number of total working hours, since they will spend a lot less time doing paperwork.
I'd like to see the results of that -- if the dining car stays open longer that would definitely give better financial results.

 

[Nathanael]

Listen, it might not be nice to say, but the almost all blue collar workers, and most lower tier white collar workers do not have the intelligence, knowledge, or time to manage their investments effectively.

Most higher-tier white collar workers don't either.

And please don't give me exceptions that prove the rule. They just don't. Competent management of money is a gift certain people have. The point of a pension department is to provide the employees with the advantages of having one.

I dunno. My investment portfolio has grown an average of 16% year for the past ten years versus basis. I know I'm good, but I didn't think I was so good as to beat pension fund managers by such huge numbers.

You are that good. I do a bit better than the market averages, and well enough to live off my investments, but I don't do nearly as well as you do. (I'm a very conservative investor, so that has something to do with it, but still.)

 

[fairviewroad]

I'd like to see the results of that -- if the dining car stays open longer that would definitely give better financial results.

Perhaps, but simply being able to serve more customers during the current open hours would probably be even better.

How many people (i.e. coach passengers) are turned away during busy hours due to lack of available seating? We've

all had the experience of sitting around a diner waaaaiiiiittttingg for the server to show and up then later waaaaiiiiitttttiiinnng

for the other fellow to come and take your money. I'm not sure how much of that is due to lousy service as opposed to

antiquated paperwork procedures, but either way you really don't need to keep the diner open longer in order to

serve more customers.

(Not that I'm opposed to the diner staying open longer)

 

[tonys96]

I'd like to see the results of that -- if the dining car stays open longer that would definitely give better financial results.

Perhaps, but simply being able to serve more customers during the current open hours would probably be even better.

How many people (i.e. coach passengers) are turned away during busy hours due to lack of available seating? We've

all had the experience of sitting around a diner waaaaiiiiittttingg for the server to show and up then later waaaaiiiiitttttiiinnng

for the other fellow to come and take your money. I'm not sure how much of that is due to lousy service as opposed to

antiquated paperwork procedures, but either way you really don't need to keep the diner open longer in order to

serve more customers.

(Not that I'm opposed to the diner staying open longer)

Agreed. The fixed costs (salary/benefits, etc) are the same whether there are three people served a meal, or if there are three seatings full for that meal. The only variable is the cost of the materials (food). Increasing revenues is the way to go, and that happens by serving more customers or raising the price points. At current prices, increasing them would likely result in a net loss, due to more folks opting to not use the diner, so the remaining way to increase revenue is to serve more patrons.

 

[rrdude]

I'd like to see the results of that -- if the dining car stays open longer that would definitely give better financial results.

Perhaps, but simply being able to serve more customers during the current open hours would probably be even better.

How many people (i.e. coach passengers) are turned away during busy hours due to lack of available seating? We've

all had the experience of sitting around a diner waaaaiiiiittttingg for the server to show and up then later waaaaiiiiitttttiiinnng

for the other fellow to come and take your money. I'm not sure how much of that is due to lousy service as opposed to

antiquated paperwork procedures, but either way you really don't need to keep the diner open longer in order to

serve more customers.

(Not that I'm opposed to the diner staying open longer)

Having been an Amtrak Dining Car employee in the late 70's and early 80's, and then making my adult-career in the POS business, (and consulted with Amtrak on this back in the mid-90's, when they still had the vertical business units VBU)

I have a pretty good perspective on this.

POS will help with END of TRIP reports, (as they presently have the implementation planned) but unless they migrate to a tablet, or table-side ordering, we will not see much of an impact on the dining times of passengers. AND, thee single most important aspect of introducing POS to a restaurant that has not used them before, single most important aspect, is the management buy-in, or acceptance of it.

I've seen IBM SurePOS 1's (now sold by Toshiba) on the side of the ROW along the NEC. Why? LSA's didn't want it!

Ivy City (Maint facility in DC) had a huge amount of damaged/destroyed IBM units, along with all the other "operable units" They were joined later on by the NCR units I sold Amtrak, and then even later by the Ciao CacheBox units sold by Jonathon W. Price. (He beat out Micros and NCR 2170 for the RFP, because he had been doing Govt Contract and RFP's for years, and he was able to help 'write" the RFP. I knew from day one when I saw the RFP, that Ciao had written it..................)

Amtrak California has been the most successful with POS, and I believe it is a variable of that model/software that is being installed system-wide in the lounge and cafe cars.

POS for full-service diners is a whole other beast, I surely hope they are not trying to "put a square peg in a round hole" by using the POS s/w they are using in the lounge cars, in the diner too.

As soon as they (if ever) start using either a tablet or other handheld at the table, (then the orders shoot directly to the kitchen!) then you will see a modest improvement in TABLE-TURNS, provided they kitchen can keep up with the flow of orders. (Years ago, Taco Bell tested customer-facing kiosks, and had to stop the tests, as the kitchen could not keep up with the volume. Cashiers taking the orders provided an artificial "buffer" in the amount and speed in which orders were sent to the kitchen. Now, kisok, or "customer facing" POS units are all the rage, and exploding into the Quick Casual (Think Chipotle, Quizno's Five Guys) and Quick Service (Think Micky D's, Taco Bell [deja vu all over again for them], BK, Wendy's, Chik Fil A)

Customer Facing Kiosks (Full Disclosure, the previous link is the company I work for) have made huge impacts at C-Stores like Wawa and Sheetz. They are creeping into sit-down restaurant too, as Applebees just cut short a pilot, and decided to roll out the Presto tablets in all of Applebee's locations. The ROI for Applebee's is off-the-chart great. You can't order everything off the menu, but you can get started, (apps and drinks) and for a mere .99 more, (Thanks for the idea Apple Corp.) you can play unlimited games! The amount of money that Applebee's has made just on the games has exceeded even the most wild prediction that anyone at Applebee's had. Chili's has tested similar, and so it goes.

And, it goes one further, my company, among others, are now piloting s/w that allows user to use their own device, (iPhone, Droid, Tablet) log onto the restaurant's web site, and place their own orders. (only if you want to) It's called Bring Your Own Device (BYOD) Imagine the savings that chains will have with this? No more deploying and maintaining thousands of POS and CC terminals, customers will just use their own phones/tablets!

Several grocery retailers are already doing it. Giant Foods, a grocer in my area, for years has had "hand-held" scanners that one can check out upon entering the store, scan and bag your groceries as you shop, and then scan "END of ORDER" at the checkout, and away you go after paying. (there are random audits, but the savings vs. having add'l cashiers is still lower, even with the shrinkage) Just recently, they offered an APP for the iPhone that allows me to bypass picking up a hand-held scanner in the store. Now I just enter the store, my phone automatically joins the Giant WiFi, and I start scanning and bagging my own groceries, with my phone!

So, if Amtrak is wise, "some time soon", you'll be able to enter the dining car, whip out your phone or tablet, and place your own order.

I guess the day of the passenger filling out their own order really will be LONG GONE.

 

[RalphCT]

I've never filled out my order. The most I've ever done is signed the form and added my room and car number. The dining car staff took car of the rest. Why would I want to fill out an order form now, either paper or electronic?

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

 

[afigg]

We already know one change which is already planned: electronic real-time inventory tracking. ("Point of Sale", they call it.) This is supposed to give the dining car staff more time to serve customers with the same number of total working hours, since they will spend a lot less time doing paperwork.

I'd like to see the results of that -- if the dining car stays open longer that would definitely give better financial results.

I expect that implementation of electronic POS and inventory tracking will have wide ranging implications for the dining car staff. My takeaway from the OIG report is how haphazard and inconsistent the management and staff procedures are for the F&B services. Lack of detailed data on food sales and inventory tracking for one.
Another is Figure 3 which shows the wide range in revenue per rider across the lead service attendants on the CL. This is not a surprise with the frequent reports of how some dining staffs make the effort to make the dining service available to coach passengers and others don't give a damn. Detailed sales and passenger count data at the end of each trip by meal and time will provide quick feedback on which crews are bringing in the revenue and which are not. Start an incentive program to quickly award the crews with food sales above the median and the diner car sales to coach passengers should increase. Of course, there may be difficulty in implementing an valid incentive program.

 

[rrdude]

I've never filled out my order. The most I've ever done is signed the form and added my room and car number. The dining car staff took car of the rest. Why would I want to fill out an order form now, either paper or electronic?

A Montanan who enjoys train travel.

For years, dining car passengers filled out their own order, by simply checking the boxes. Even Amtrak continued this until they started scanning the forms, and the scanners only like a certain color ink, then they asked the server to fill them out for the passengers...........