Amenities Being Eliminated from Long Distance Routes

[Eric S]

I don't wanna pickle,

I just wanna ride on my train so fickle...

Well done, sir, well done.

 

[jebr]

Tablecloths will no longer be used for breakfast/lunch service, just placemats on the bare table. For dinner, a tablecloth will be placed with sheets of butcherblock paper on top, one for each estimated dinner seating for the evening.

Weren't they using butcherblock paper already in the diners, just for all three meals? If so, I think placemats on the bare table are a step up from butcherblock paper. It should also speed things up a bit, I would think (though maybe the time from trying to move the old piece of paper out to a fresh one is comparable to cleaning the table between each patron.)

Honestly, I would like to see them either use real tablecloths or just bare tables, no placemat (unless the placemats surprise me with how formal they appear.)

 

[montana mike]

The email I just received, signed by Mark Murphy at Amtrak, stated all of these actions were designed to not just reduce costs but to "increase revenue". Maybe he knows something I don't know, but cutting back on what you offer to your guests and customers and lowering their expectations and still marketing your product as a "first class" experience, is not a way you "increase revenue".

Oh, well. Most people are very happy to pay more for an experience if they truly perceive that experience will be enhanced and value added by the amenities being offered. Just look at cars. The big bucks cars survived the downturn in auto sales much better than the econoboxes because there is always a certain number of people who are ready, willing and able to pay for "the extras". If I have learned one thing in my 20+ years in the Marketing business is just this tenet!!

 

[SarahZ]

I'm not convinced they're going to lose business, though. Sure, some of the posters on this forum are upset, but they still ride trains. I, personally, don't care, because the private room and shower are worth the upgrade cost.

Once we have some ridership numbers, it'll be easier to say if this is affecting the bottom line or not. If they post the same (or record) ridership numbers for the LD routes again, then this is sort of moot.

Remember, only three trains were affected by the big amenities - the wine and cheese tastings, the champagne, and the comfort kits (which were hit or miss as it was). On the other LD routes, it's doubtful the majority of passengers (i.e. people who don't post here) will notice missing flowers or a missing newspaper. I can't remember the last time I got a newspaper anyway.

There's a lot of armchair quarterbacking about Amtrak becoming a sinking ship and everyone ending up in steerage bunks and on and on. Let's wait for the numbers and stop sliding down this slippery slope.

 

[yarrow]

The email I just received, signed by Mark Murphy at Amtrak, stated all of these actions were designed to not just reduce costs but to "increase revenue". Maybe he knows something I don't know, but cutting back on what you offer to your guests and customers and lowering their expectations and still marketing your product as a "first class" experience, is not a way you "increase revenue".

you have to remember that amtrak is a monopoly and that monopolies are generally quite unresponsive to their customers. if we get tired of being jerked around there is always another sap out there

 

[tonys96]

I'm not convinced they're going to lose business, though. Sure, some of the posters on this forum are upset, but they still ride trains. I, personally, don't care, because the private room and shower are worth the upgrade cost.

Once we have some ridership numbers, it'll be easier to say if this is affecting the bottom line or not. If they post the same (or record) ridership numbers for the LD routes again, then this is sort of moot.

Remember, only three trains were affected by the big amenities - the wine and cheese tastings, the champagne, and the comfort kits (which were hit or miss as it was). On the other LD routes, it's doubtful the majority of passengers (i.e. people who don't post here) will notice missing flowers or a missing newspaper. I can't remember the last time I got a newspaper anyway.

There's a lot of armchair quarterbacking about Amtrak becoming a sinking ship and everyone ending up in steerage bunks and on and on. Let's wait for the numbers and stop sliding down this slippery slope.

4 routes lost amenities. So far. But that makes them closer to equal to the other routes, correct?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I had actually been thinking of suggesting to them that they do placemats for breakfast/lunch (seriously, where else do you still see table clothes of that type being used in restaurants that don't require at least business casual attire?)

And the butcher block paper with real table cloth under it really does make sense for dinner.

If this is the kind of intelligent snipping of waste, I'm for it. Amtrak has always had a stuck in the mud mentality. When they stopped washing china onboard, they tried to hide it with those fake paper table clothes and plastic plates that looked like the china they replaced. It kinda reminds me of GMs early downsizing where they took the big full sized dinosaurs and replaced them with miniature front wheel drive replicas of them. Whereas Ford took their full size LTD and replaced it with the Taurus, an actual well thought out imaginative response to the conflicting needs at the time of economy verses six seat comfort.

So I am pleased. Amtrak is cutting again, yes. But not mindlessly.

 

[rrdude]

I'm not convinced they're going to lose business, though. Sure, some of the posters on this forum are upset, but they still ride trains. I, personally, don't care, because the private room and shower are worth the upgrade cost.......................

Yeah?

Not so much for me.

I just CANX my second trip on the Cap in May.

Canx'd my CS trip yesterday.

I know, most of you will say, "We'll, it's your loss, and look who has the last laugh, the sleepers are still sold out............"

Just me I guess. Amtrak, while I still like riding trains, can shove these new policies "where the sun doesn't shine."

I'm talking with my wallet.

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$565.00

 

[Green Maned Lion]

No, the jokes on you. They still have $565 of your money and you have to use it with them.

 

[jis]

I find it incredible that some actually rides Amtrak just for the dining experience and the pickles and flowers and cranberry juices for free (er. paid for by the fare). But that may be just me of course. I certainly will continue to ride it as and when I need it for transport and/or leisure, when it fits my plans just like I do now.

It is true in every country of the world that the run of the mill train service is generally pretty "blah". Yes in many countries there are a few prestige trains run either by the same railroad that runs the "blah" run of the mill service or by some other outfit. But certainly most trains in most places are not where one would go to try to get a "gourmet" experience of any sort. IMHO as long as the run of the mill service that is provided adequately serves the needs of the traveling public the outfit is serving 90% of its purpose. If in addition it can pull off running a few luxury trains, more power to it. But if it doesn't, well c'est la vie. Yes they will lose some ridership perhaps. But as long as it is not a disastrous loss, no harm done.

OK, now I am donning my +6 charmed Chain Mail and ducking. :help: :hi:

 

[rrdude]

No, the jokes on you. They still have $565 of your money and you have to use it with them.

Well actually, almost 2 or 3 X that, but I still feel the value on the Acela FC.

 

[CHamilton]

But certainly most trains in most places are not where one would go to try to get a "gourmet" experience of any sort. IMHO as long as the run of the mill service that is provided adequately serves the needs of the traveling public the outfit is serving 90% of its purpose.

Is it too much to ask for to have comfortable, reliable, and affordable transportation? We seem to be in a place where one can get two of those, but never all three.

 

[Railroad Bill]

I guess we are disappointed in the loss of some of the amenities, but most are not a crucial element in whether we ride Amtrak. We enjoy the ride, the scenery, the convenience of not driving long distances, meeting new people and sharing stories, and the food, which in our opinion is usually pretty good.

I am concerned as to what is happening to the Empire Builder, once a quality ride on Amtrak, that has now become a joke.

But as long as the CZ and SWC can get us to the west coast, we will continue to ride and have fun. The older you get, the more you appreciate the experiences you have

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I find it incredible that some actually rides Amtrak just for the dining experience and the pickles and flowers and cranberry juices for free (er. paid for by the fare). But that may be just me of course. I certainly will continue to ride it as and when I need it for transport and/or leisure, when it fits my plans just like I do now.

I agree.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm not convinced they're going to lose business, though. Sure, some of the posters on this forum are upset, but they still ride trains. I, personally, don't care, because the private room and shower are worth the upgrade cost. Once we have some ridership numbers, it'll be easier to say if this is affecting the bottom line or not. If they post the same (or record) ridership numbers for the LD routes again, then this is sort of moot.

I remember many people saying something similar about service reductions at US airlines over the last few decades. The airlines continued reducing service levels, and adding more fees, and suffering performance degradation, and further restricting customer recourse during irregular operations. But they were careful about it. They didn't make all these changes at once. Instead they implemented them as part of a series of waves that each seemed relatively minor at the time. Americans begain to complain but in the end most of them simply lowered their expectations and kept on flying like nothing had happened. That would be the end of my post except that I don't think I've never seen a forum whine and moan about airline service more than this one. So maybe the little things really do matter and maybe this issue isn't really moot after all.

There's a lot of armchair quarterbacking about Amtrak becoming a sinking ship and everyone ending up in steerage bunks and on and on. Let's wait for the numbers and stop sliding down this slippery slope.

I think you may be confusing a joke with a serious complaint.

 

[yarrow]

we are sitting in the metro lounge in pdx and see there is a notice about the impending amenities cuts

 

[neroden]

More revisions announced to dining car service. Tablecloths will no longer be used for breakfast/lunch service, just placemats on the bare table.

Honestly, this will probably look better. Real placemats would be nice.
I'm guessing they're going to go with paper, though. :-( Makes it easier to throw more crap away and be less environmentally conscious.

Amtrak should advertise the huge amount of garbage it sends to landfills when it doesn't need to. If it doesn't advertise that, I'll be happy to advertise it for them. ;-)

For dinner, a tablecloth will be placed with sheets of butcherblock paper on top, one for each estimated dinner seating for the evening.

This.... won't look better. Butcher block paper is really, really low end and people know it.

Also sliced pickles being removed from use as a garnish, mainly because of a procurement issue that causes more waste/condemmage than is considered worthwhile. It is a complicated reason which I can explain if requested....

Fine by me. This is a rational change given the bizarre procurement issues.

 

[neroden]

in the end most of them simply lowered their expectations and kept on flying like nothing had happened.

I'm not at all sure that that is true. It's hard to get a breakdown of the nature of the trips currently taken by airplane; I think they suffer from counting unlinked trips (so they double-count when people change planes).

I spent a while looking at the T-100 airplane ridership numbers from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, which have a long time series. They dropped sharply in 2001, grew through 2007, dropped sharply in 2008, and are flat-to-declining since then.

Ridership on small airplanes (60 seats or less) is not included in the T-100 data, but is included in the "headline" data starting in 2002. These show a significant and large rise in ridership, *not* present in the T-100 data, indicating that something rather more complicated is happening in the airline market. Those little puddlejumpers never had on-board amenities. I'm not sure why they're getting more riders, but it could be related to forced transfers, and be essentially a double-counting artifact.

Anecdotally, I've heard of a lot of air-to-car shifts in travel.

 

[zepherdude]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore.

You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore.

You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

Ditto

 

[afigg]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore.

You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

+2
I thought the purpose of a train service is to get one from one place to another in a reasonable degree of comfort, at an acceptable pace, and depending on one's financial status, at an affordable price. So far, the changes have been in the small stuff: wine & cheese tastings, flowers, loss of the sleeper lounge on the AT, changing the child's fare age limit, and so on. The LD trains are still running with sleeper and diner service. Much of what Amtrak is doing is following the path taken by the airlines over the last several decades; trimming amenities to reduce costs and employing a complex price structure designed to maximize revenue. Whether the airlines customers were happy about the changes or not, going very lean on service has kept the airlines in business and led to actual operating profits (for now).

So far, Amtrak has not taken it anywhere near as far as the airlines with much tighter seating in coach, charging extra for all checked bags, and so on. The airlines also have aggressively cut the number of domestic flights over the past 6-8 years to increase passenger loads on the remaining flights. Amtrak has not done that nor should it because there is no excess of daily service frequencies to cut. Whether there are more shoes to drop for the LD trains and the system as a whole, well, we shall see what happens in Congress this year.

 

[boxcarsyix]

So far the only big change is the elimation of the second lounge on the AT. LD trains should have enough lounge space to allow for reasonable use. My last trip on the CS had an SSL instead of the PPC. It was mostly empty. If the other SSL was not overly used, it is hard to justify two lounge cars. NOT THAT I WOULD NOT MISS THE PPC, but the use may not pay for it.

Different menus on different trains would be nice, especially on my upcoming CZ SWC CS trip, but I can live with what they offer.

I would be dissapointed not to have bottled water in the sleepers though.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore. You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

So the discovery that some strangers have different desires than yours bothers you enough to start shouting and bossing people around? Who are you to tell other people if their topics and concerns are acceptable or not? Maybe you had a point somewhere in that mess of judgmental shouting but the way you wrote it makes you sound like a confused hobo who just discovered the internet yesterday.

 

[tonys96]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore. You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

+2I thought the purpose of a train service is to get one from one place to another in a reasonable degree of comfort, at an acceptable pace, and depending on one's financial status, at an affordable price. So far, the changes have been in the small stuff: wine & cheese tastings, flowers, loss of the sleeper lounge on the AT, changing the child's fare age limit, and so on. The LD trains are still running with sleeper and diner service. Much of what Amtrak is doing is following the path taken by the airlines over the last several decades; trimming amenities to reduce costs and employing a complex price structure designed to maximize revenue. Whether the airlines customers were happy about the changes or not, going very lean on service has kept the airlines in business and led to actual operating profits (for now).So far, Amtrak has not taken it anywhere near as far as the airlines with much tighter seating in coach, charging extra for all checked bags, and so on. The airlines also have aggressively cut the number of domestic flights over the past 6-8 years to increase passenger loads on the remaining flights. Amtrak has not done that nor should it because there is no excess of daily service frequencies to cut. Whether there are more shoes to drop for the LD trains and the system as a whole, well, we shall see what happens in Congress this year.

Two key words in your post: So far.

 

[tonys96]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore.

You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

Free stuff? What 'free stuff' are you talking of?