Amenities Being Eliminated from Long Distance Routes

[cpamtfan]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore. You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

So the discovery that some strangers have different desires than yours bothers you enough to start shouting and bossing people around? Who are you to tell other people if their topics and concerns are acceptable or not? Maybe you had a point somewhere in that mess of judgmental shouting but the way you wrote it makes you sound like a confused hobo who just discovered the internet yesterday.

The only one I see shouting and being bossy is you.

 

[boxcarsyix]

Just a side note concerning the Airline's cutting service. Just checked Delta Sacramento to Chicago in first class. The price is $650.00 im May. This compares with a roomette on the CZ at the same time. AFAIK first class on the airlines has not suffered the cuts that coach has. So we may need to compare apples to apples as far as amenites are concerned. (First class lounges, food, drinks, luggage, etc)

 

[SubwayNut]

When you fly domestic first class it doesn't include lounge access in the US (except certain transcon routes), its only an international amenity. This is because of the membership based/pay per use model that prevails here. Something those with S+ benefit from since we can access UnitedClubs.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore. You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

So the discovery that some strangers have different desires than yours bothers you enough to start shouting and bossing people around? Who are you to tell other people if their topics and concerns are acceptable or not? Maybe you had a point somewhere in that mess of judgmental shouting but the way you wrote it makes you sound like a confused hobo who just discovered the internet yesterday.

The only one I see shouting and being bossy is you.

I may be blunt but I do not shout. I also don't bother with kid gloves for thin skins. If someone feels the need to bash the very existence of a thread then maybe they should find another thread to read or start their own.

 

[amamba]

When you fly domestic first class it doesn't include lounge access in the US (except certain transcon routes), its only an international amenity. This is because of the membership based/pay per use model that prevails here. Something those with S+ benefit from since we can access UnitedClubs.

but the airline lounges are also generally much nicer and more luxurious than the Amtrak lounges. They have full meals and free booze. Also airline first class tends to include alcohol.

 

[Allypet]

I posted this on the AT thread, but I think it bears reposting here. Below are messages I received from someone in Amtrak about the AT cuts. I removed all reference to this person. I take this to mean this is only the beginning of cuts, and things will get worse before they will get better, and the fact that they are so over working the crew will also have a chilling effect on service. I ride the AT very often, so it hits close to home for me.

"I notice that the people who are most certain that this new plan will work, are mostly located far from A-T's route and probably have never ridden the train & probably never will. 90 min. per seating in the diner is a ludicrous plan, created by office-dwellers who have never worked on board. It may become possible when salads are eliminated., which will happen soon when the job of the guy who makes the salads is eliminated (probably about a month from now, when jobs go up for re-bid). Right now, veterans are looking at transfer options, possibly quitting altogether, retiring, or other options. Diner crews give up their own dinner break & STILL can't keep the 4 dinner seatings on time. The one lounge attendant is often overwhelmed. People who don't know the job will blame the O.B.S. crews, but the fault lies with managers who are TOTALLY uninvolved in the day to day implementation of their bogus plan. I repeat, NO experience O.B.S. personnel were involved in formulating this plan, which has more holes than a sieve. As usual, the onboard service people are making the best of the situation & keeping it from getting as bad as it otherwise could get. I've never seen morale this low."

"So far the coffee is safe. Free water may be a future casualty. ALL fruit (bananas, apples, oranges) is supposed to be discontinued when current supplies run out"

 

[sunchaser]

Just a side note concerning the Airline's cutting service. Just checked Delta Sacramento to Chicago in first class. The price is $650.00 im May. This compares with a roomette on the CZ at the same time. AFAIK first class on the airlines has not suffered the cuts that coach has. So we may need to compare apples to apples as far as amenites are concerned. (First class lounges, food, drinks, luggage, etc)

We just recently booked a flight with Frontier, and paid extra for 'stretch seating', free checked baggage, carryons and includes free beverages and 1 free alcoholic beverage. I think what we need to remember is that Amtrak is similar to a hotel or bed and breakfast on wheels. So comparing prices should include not only meals & beverages, but 'hotel' costs. Most hotels provide free coffee/coffemaker, tolietries, etc. except for the very cheap ones. I know the hotel we use provides these things, and fresh fruit, too.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I think what we need to remember is that Amtrak is similar to a hotel or bed and breakfast on wheels. So comparing prices should include not only meals & beverages, but 'hotel' costs. Most hotels provide free coffee/coffemaker, tolietries, etc. except for the very cheap ones. I know the hotel we use provides these things, and fresh fruit, too.[/b][/font][/size][/color]

If I fly I arrive at a hotel I can use as a base to go exploring other areas and sites besides the bedroom and the lobby. If I want to spend my vacation in the hotel itself then I would pick a destination resort. Amtrak isn't the kind of hotel you can leave for extended exploration and Amtrak isn't a resort either. So the idea that it should be compared to a hotel seems confusing to me. It's a hotel in the middle of nowhere that I'd never have to bother with if I were flying. Even back when I used to drive long distances it wasn't that hard to find a generic hotel for a lot less than Amtrak costs me today.

 

[boxcarsyix]

On board amenities in first class on the airlines includes meals at mealtime (if the flight is long enough) complimentary snacks, drinks (alchoholic as well as not) entertainment, WiFi, comfortable space, etc. This is Amtrak's competition. If it ends up that "Sleeper Class" means being stuffed in a roomette for the entire trip with no complementary beverage and no reasonable seat availability in the on board lounge, I think revenues will definately drop. My trips so far have been OK in terms of lounge space but twice was on the CS with the PPC (or an SSL) and the food service has been fine. I don't think the tablecloths and flowers are a critical element. I do agree with many here that much in the way of further cuts would not be good for business.

 

[rrdude]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore.

You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

+2
I thought the purpose of a train service is to get one from one place to another in a reasonable degree of comfort, at an acceptable pace, and depending on one's financial status, at an affordable price. So far, the changes have been in the small stuff: wine & cheese tastings, flowers, loss of the sleeper lounge on the AT, changing the child's fare age limit, and so on. The LD trains are still running with sleeper and diner service. Much of what Amtrak is doing is following the path taken by the airlines over the last several decades; trimming amenities to reduce costs and employing a complex price structure designed to maximize revenue. Whether the airlines customers were happy about the changes or not, going very lean on service has kept the airlines in business and led to actual operating profits (for now).

So far, Amtrak has not taken it anywhere near as far as the airlines with much tighter seating in coach, charging extra for all checked bags, and so on. The airlines also have aggressively cut the number of domestic flights over the past 6-8 years to increase passenger loads on the remaining flights. Amtrak has not done that nor should it because there is no excess of daily service frequencies to cut. Whether there are more shoes to drop for the LD trains and the system as a whole, well, we shall see what happens in Congress this year.

Spoken like true Rail Fans.................

Level of service means very little to you then, eh? Why not go X country in a commuter coach? Hey, it would be cheaper! No need for Service Attendants to clean the bathroom, or other duties that PAX could do.

Ya just don't get it..............

"John Q Traveling Public" certainly doesn't have the same level-of-expectation that I do when riding Amtrak, but they aren't gonna be happy with dirty cars, tardy trains, and crap food either. "John Q" could care less about a P-42, or a switch engine, he just wants to get there, reliably, and maybe cheaply. He probably doesn't care so much about flowers or tablecloths either. But some people do, especially the ones who pay the premium for sleeper class.

That's my beef with Amtrak. If you are gonna charge the rates they do, then provide something other than mediocre food, and "Denny's style" service....... No one is asking for a return to the days of silver service, bedtime turn-down, or shoes being polished. But Amtrak's current movement is going to chase away a few travelers, who expect something, anything, for the extra fare. Not just an average meal on a Formica table, served on plastic plates, and flat bed to lay down at night...........

Now, if they can keep the sleepers full, AND get rid of all the amenities, china, wine tasting, tablecloths, etc.?

Well, then they should. Because "why give something away for free, when you have more business than you can handle anyway?

I won't ride, but that won't make a lick of difference to Amtrak's bottom line. 'Cause someone else, either a foamer or an unwitting traveler, will gladly buy the sleeper that I have chosen not to buy.

No, the "ENTIRE THRILL" of riding a train is NOT the country-side, the inner-city, and what's OUTSIDE the window. If that were the case, Auto-Train would cease to exist. There is FAR MORE than just scenery, although for many, including me) that is a big part. The service I get, (or not), the food, I eat, and the surroundings I consume that meal in, (Table-mates, staff, "amenities" on table, entree choices, quality of food, cleanliness of windows, cleanliness of diner-in-general, quality of dining experience, time it took etc.,etc., ) all play a major role in my traveling experience.

I just don't get, (my fault, I admit) how some people could be happy curled up in a coach seat for days, staring out the window, eating their meals from the cooler they brought.

I'd rather listen to chalk-screeching on a blackboard, or have my eyes poked out with a dull stick than do that again. I've "been there - done that" as a youth/twenty-something.

So when I pay the premium bucks for the sleeper service, I expect more. Now that Amtrak is not giving me what I expect, I will complain, and travel other modes more frequently. You can say "my loss". Any you may be correct.

But I cannot, and will not, pay those bucks, and put up with the kind of service that seems to be in Amtrak's future. To each their own. The dumbing-down (and what many think of as "good service") of America continues..............

 

[Allypet]

I thought the entire thrill was riding the train and seeing the countryside. I thought the experience of the trip.the Rockies, the great Southwest, the inner cities and the back streets. Yet this entire thread is about stuff! Tablecloths, pickles and wine/cheese, salt and pepper shakers. Its all about stuff. Its not about the freedom of the rails anymore.

You guys want stuff, go stay at a high class hotel in NYC. You will get all your stuff and you will pay for. Amtrak looses gazillions of bucks, but as long as everyone gets their free stuff its Ok. I am 65 and do remember the good old RR days. Silver service, home cooked meals and plenty of stuff. Why did those days end? RRs could not afford the stuff, jet travel was that way, now they can no longer afford the stuff. Everyone needs to get a grip, nothing is free anymore. If you don't wish to ride Amtrak, then don't! Go elsewhere! Find a different train, one that gives plenty of free stuff! Just stop griping about stuff that ain't coming back.

+2
I thought the purpose of a train service is to get one from one place to another in a reasonable degree of comfort, at an acceptable pace, and depending on one's financial status, at an affordable price. So far, the changes have been in the small stuff: wine & cheese tastings, flowers, loss of the sleeper lounge on the AT, changing the child's fare age limit, and so on. The LD trains are still running with sleeper and diner service. Much of what Amtrak is doing is following the path taken by the airlines over the last several decades; trimming amenities to reduce costs and employing a complex price structure designed to maximize revenue. Whether the airlines customers were happy about the changes or not, going very lean on service has kept the airlines in business and led to actual operating profits (for now).

So far, Amtrak has not taken it anywhere near as far as the airlines with much tighter seating in coach, charging extra for all checked bags, and so on. The airlines also have aggressively cut the number of domestic flights over the past 6-8 years to increase passenger loads on the remaining flights. Amtrak has not done that nor should it because there is no excess of daily service frequencies to cut. Whether there are more shoes to drop for the LD trains and the system as a whole, well, we shall see what happens in Congress this year.

Spoken like true Rail Fans.................

Level of service means very little to you then, eh? Why not go X country in a commuter coach? Hey, it would be cheaper! No need for Service Attendants to clean the bathroom, or other duties that PAX could do.

Ya just don't get it..............

"John Q Traveling Public" certainly doesn't have the same level-of-expectation that I do when riding Amtrak, but they aren't gonna be happy with dirty cars, tardy trains, and crap food either. "John Q" could care less about a P-42, or a switch engine, he just wants to get there, reliably, and maybe cheaply. He probably doesn't care so much about flowers or tablecloths either. But some people do, especially the ones who pay the premium for sleeper class.

That's my beef with Amtrak. If you are gonna charge the rates they do, then provide something other than mediocre food, and "Denny's style" service....... No one is asking for a return to the days of silver service, bedtime turn-down, or shoes being polished. But Amtrak's current movement is going to chase away a few travelers, who expect something, anything, for the extra fare. Not just an average meal on a Formica table, served on plastic plates, and flat bed to lay down at night...........

Now, if they can keep the sleepers full, AND get rid of all the amenities, china, wine tasting, tablecloths, etc.?

Well, then they should. Because "why give something away for free, when you have more business than you can handle anyway?

I won't ride, but that won't make a lick of difference to Amtrak's bottom line. 'Cause someone else, either a foamer or an unwitting traveler, will gladly buy the sleeper that I have chosen not to buy.

No, the "ENTIRE THRILL" of riding a train is NOT the country-side, the inner-city, and what's OUTSIDE the window. If that were the case, Auto-Train would cease to exist. There is FAR MORE than just scenery, although for many, including me) that is a big part. The service I get, (or not), the food, I eat, and the surroundings I consume that meal in, (Table-mates, staff, "amenities" on table, entree choices, quality of food, cleanliness of windows, cleanliness of diner-in-general, quality of dining experience, time it took etc.,etc., ) all play a major role in my traveling experience.

I just don't get, (my fault, I admit) how some people could be happy curled up in a coach seat for days, staring out the window, eating their meals from the cooler they brought.

I'd rather listen to chalk-screeching on a blackboard, or have my eyes poked out with a dull stick than do that again. I've "been there - done that" as a youth/twenty-something.

So when I pay the premium bucks for the sleeper service, I expect more. Now that Amtrak is not giving me what I expect, I will complain, and travel other modes more frequently. You can say "my loss". Any you may be correct.

But I cannot, and will not, pay those bucks, and put up with the kind of service that seems to be in Amtrak's future. To each their own. The dumbing-down (and what many think of as "good service") of America continues..............

I agree 100%. There are not enough foamers to keep Amtrak afloat. They need people like us!

 

[Ryan]

Ridership and revenue numbers suggest that they don't.

When they start going negative, then I'll start worrying. Until then this is nothing more than 27 pages of hot air.

 

[SarahZ]

Ridership and revenue numbers suggest that they don't.

When they start going negative, then I'll start worrying. Until then this is nothing more than 27 pages of hot air.

Precisely. I've been saying this for weeks. People can tease me and berate me and call me dumb/stupid all they want, but until the ridership numbers come in, nobody can say who's right and who's wrong.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

No listen dear lass, no facts or figures are a match for the exuberance of negative opinions that spring forth from the tortured existences of a grumpy crotchety old men.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Ridership and revenue numbers suggest that they don't.

When they start going negative, then I'll start worrying. Until then this is nothing more than 27 pages of hot air.

Precisely. I've been saying this for weeks. People can tease me and berate me and call me dumb/stupid all they want, but until the ridership numbers come in, nobody can say who's right and who's wrong.

Persecution complex notwithstanding, I would caution against placing the success/failure criteria entirely on passenger numbers. I do not doubt that Amtrak will probably be able to maintain or perhaps even increase ridership over current levels (outside of deteriorating and dysfunctional routes such as the Empire Builder). Nonetheless I find it doubtful that such results will appease the anti-rail folks over the long term. If and when Amtrak is ready to hack and slash the current dining service into vending machines they may stand a real chance of putting the congressional attacks to rest. Although that may very well lead to a substantial drop in passengers thereafter. The bottom line is that we'll either have a lot more cuts coming down the pipe or we'll have gained zero protection from future congressional attacks. Pick your poison. The cuts that have occurred so far have accomplished absolutely nothing.

 

[neroden]

"I notice that the people who are most certain that this new plan will work, are mostly located far from A-T's route and probably have never ridden the train & probably never will. 90 min. per seating in the diner is a ludicrous plan, created by office-dwellers who have never worked on board.

This is ludicrous.

It may become possible when salads are eliminated., which will happen soon when the job of the guy who makes the salads is eliminated (probably about a month from now, when jobs go up for re-bid).

This is insane. Salads are mandatory to get a balanced meal on Amtrak.
This is an attempt to eliminate food service, full stop. Thankfully Amtrak allows us to bring our own food on board. There's gonna be a *LOT* more of that going on, and the rooms and coaches are gonna need a lot more cleaning due to all the food scraps. The lounges will fill up with people bringing their own food and wanting a table, too.

Idiocy. They had better not expand this attack on food service to the other trains.

Right now, veterans are looking at transfer options, possibly quitting altogether, retiring, or other options. Diner crews give up their own dinner break & STILL can't keep the 4 dinner seatings on time. The one lounge attendant is often overwhelmed.

"So far the coffee is safe. Free water may be a future casualty.

Free water is mandatory, but the water in the sinks IS supposed to be potable water, so I guess they can't really get rid of free water even if they try.

 

[neroden]

Ridership and revenue numbers suggest that they don't.

When they start going negative, then I'll start worrying.

That will happen pretty fast on the Auto Train. A few months for people to notice the absurdly deteriorated service, then the ridership & revenue starts dropping.

 

[rrdude]

No listen dear lass, no facts or figures are a match for the exuberance of negative opinions that spring forth from the tortured existences of a grumpy crotchety old men.

Now I've been called out before, but never with such eloquence! Thank you GML, thank you, thank you, thank you.

I finally made it............

Luv you man................

Or as my dear friend, a very successful restaurateur often reminds me, "I can feed 'em s h i t, and they still keep packing the place......why should I change? (spend more or discount) ............... I don't eat here, and I never would, but I've built a successful, profitable restaurant............."

 

[SarahZ]

Ridership and revenue numbers suggest that they don't.

When they start going negative, then I'll start worrying. Until then this is nothing more than 27 pages of hot air.

Precisely. I've been saying this for weeks. People can tease me and berate me and call me dumb/stupid all they want, but until the ridership numbers come in, nobody can say who's right and who's wrong.

Persecution complex notwithstanding [...]

I do not have a "persecution complex", but thanks for proving my point.

 

[The Journalist]

I was recently on the Silver Star WAS-CYN (Cary, NC) and ate dinner in the dining car. Had some rather excellent chicken. I can't say I cared, or noticed for that matter, what the tablecloth was made of or if there were flowers on the table. I paid with a credit card and the LSA had a Square-like mobile POS system, which was new to me-last time I used a diner they imprinted my card, which I had never seen before.

Someone mentioned salads...from my tomato-hating perspective the salads are entirely unnecessary, so dropping them-or at least making them a paid side?-wouldn't trouble me at all. But complementary dinner salads seem to be one of those things that practically every traditional restaurant does and seems well-received overall, my personal disinterest notwithstanding. Giving everyone a free salad weather they actually want one or not in a space- and time-constrained environment seems counterproductive.

So I guess I'd say my reaction to these "downgrades" ranges from "Makes sense" to "Eh, whatever."

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm one of those who would have no problem if the less than OK Amsalads were dropped, they're terrible!

I did notice that on the Cardinal which is knocked by many for it's Diner Lite fare, that the lunch sandwiches were assembled by the double duty attendant and included sliced tomatoes and nice looking and tasting lettuce!

Perhaps salads could be offered, as was said, all la carte but made with better ingredients!

 

[neroden]

Perhaps salads could be offered, as was said, all la carte but made with better ingredients!

I'd go for that!

 

[JayPea]

I could go for salads like that too. As far as the amenities that have been cut so far, to me, they don't mean much. I can understand how some folks might be upset, though. I enjoy train travel too much to sweat what is to me the small stuff. Now if there happen to be huge cuts like eliminating dining cars or sleepers altogether, then I'd rethink my position. Now the Autotrain cuts seem a bit drastic, on the other hand. I've never taken it but to an outsider the cuts seem ill-advised. I'd still like to take the AT sometime but for me the logistics would be difficult. As for the cuts over the years in airline travel, as far as I'm concerned losing those Gawdawful meals on the planes was an improvement. I've never flown overseas so have never spent more than 4 hours at a time on a plane. I'd much rather eat a good meal before boarding and a good meal during layovers in the airport.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

No listen dear lass, no facts or figures are a match for the exuberance of negative opinions that spring forth from the tortured existences of a grumpy crotchety old men.

Now I've been called out before, but never with such eloquence! Thank you GML, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I finally made it............

Luv you man................

Or as my dear friend, a very successful restaurateur often reminds me, "I can feed 'em s h i t, and they still keep packing the place......why should I change? (spend more or discount) ............... I don't eat here, and I never would, but I've built a successful, profitable restaurant............."

I gotta stop trying to be eloquent on my iphone. You know I luv u too, rrdude. Lol

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Listening to a phone conversation in Boardman's office, with Boardman on the phone... ???

"Count the beans!"

"What?"

"Retract!"

Now repeat, over and over and over again.

Until....

"Mica is still upset?"

"Okay, do away with ALL LD trains!"