Amenities Being Eliminated from Long Distance Routes

[rrdude]

Yes, but they are just selling fixed set of items with no variation. Actually they seem use a device that looks surprisingly similar to the one that they use (and have used for quite a while) on international flights flights for selling duty free, from the looks of it. This would be quite different and relatively restricted in functionality compared to what one would need in a properly functioning Restaurant/Dining Car, unless of course the Dining Car is run merely as a car full of tables for eating from a completely fixed set of boxed items with no variations allowed. Maybe that is the reason that POS's have managed to get deployed on Acelas and other Corridor Service and not in Diners.

What kind of "varitions" are you talking about? Amtrak diners are just about the most variation-free sit down restaurant I've ever seen.

Modifiers, STEAK, Rare, Med Rare, Med, Med Well, Well, Pittsburgh. Beverage: Soda (Pepsi, Mt. Dew, Pibb) Water, tea. We call them modifiers in the POS biz, and virtually every POS software handles them flawlessly today, some better than others. but it's a core part of any POS. Usually the modifiers print indented, or ALL CAPS, or bolded-colored. So the kitchen (or bar) can easily make out the variations......... Many times there are more modifiers in the dBase, than there are menu-items

 

[jis]

Yes, but they are just selling fixed set of items with no variation. Actually they seem use a device that looks surprisingly similar to the one that they use (and have used for quite a while) on international flights flights for selling duty free, from the looks of it. This would be quite different and relatively restricted in functionality compared to what one would need in a properly functioning Restaurant/Dining Car, unless of course the Dining Car is run merely as a car full of tables for eating from a completely fixed set of boxed items with no variations allowed.

Maybe that is the reason that POS's have managed to get deployed on Acelas and other Corridor Service and not in Diners.

JIS, the flexibility and modifications needed are a no brainer, check out this old video from Action Systems, makers of Restaurant Manager. (my employer)
Sorry about the music, we make sucky videos....

Oh I completely agree. The point I was making is that for the sort of food sales that United does in domestic cabin, it does not require variations. It is exactly like the sales they do for duty free on international flights. So they just had to take basically the same system and load it up with a different inventory and were good to go.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

And of course there are even, I kid you not, FREE POS software systems out there. The one I use is combined with my merchant services system (I.e. Credit cards) and the only thing I pay for is a single percentage of sale fee on credit cards. So it really is free if I was brainless enough to not take credit cards.

 

[tonys96]

Indeed the POS that I saw used in the Food Service car on the Cape Flyer was a hand held iPhone.

Probably like THIS JIS, which is what the company I work for, has been doing for about ten years...........

I've installed table-side, or hand-held ordering systems on dinner boats, NFL stadiums, dinner theaters, fast-casual restaurant, sit-down restaurants, theme parks, amphitheaters, sandwich shops, and even in the drive-thru lane at McDonald's, to "bust the line", and casino's. The ROI is huge and fast, provided the situation warrants hand-helds. (It the restaurant doesn't care about table turn, why bother installing?)

It would work like a champ for the dining cars. And now Amtrak has a choice of dozens of off-the-shelf POS companies to choose from, when ten years ago, we were almost the only one offering it. (Stateside)

Sales of our Hand-Held units skyrocketed when we ported our s/w over to the iOS (iPad Touch and iPhone) and now, with the advent of "cheap" tablets, the market is set to explode again, estimates are by 1/3, domestically.

At first we thought this would put a "dent" in the sales of our dealers who sell our product.

SURPRISE!

Reverse is true.

Now restaurants, instead of buying 3 "fixed" POS stations, for all the servers to share, placed around the restaurant at $1,500 a pop, (h/w only), now they buy 7, 8, 9 or however many servers they have on the floor at one time, so it's a 1:1 ratio. 1 POS unit (albeit iPad) per server. So it's win for us, as we only do the s/w. Now a restaurant will buy 7,8, or 9 server-licenses from us (and in turn, our dealers) instead of 3 or 4.

Oh, btw, even though mgmt can "mandate" the use of POS, if the rank-and-file don't "buy-in" (less work, more accuracy, more tips, more accountability-opps, the don't like the accountability benefit!) then the actual deployment of the POS s/w in the field (train or land-based restaurant, I've seen it happen with chain restaurants.) will really cannibalize the ROI......

How do these work? Here most chain restaurants servers have IPhone type devices that they put the order in on, I assume to the kitchen/bar. This is done wirelessly. What is the logistic for this? What mechanism allows this to happen? Something like a wireless router in my house?

I know diddly squat about this, but am curious.....on a train, this would have to be internal, so there would have to be something that moves the data from point A to point B that did not rely on the cellular systems, which allow my IPad to connect to the internet......what is the connection mechanism for what you speak of, and would it work on a train in a tunnel, or in a no cell service area?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The system in my store is cloud based. While all the devices are hooked up to the internet through the same routers, it actually does it all through a server at the MS company- and if our wifi internet goes out the iPhones connected to the system can still run on cell data. The iPads, and the MacBook Pro, can't, however.

 

[tonys96]

The system in my store is cloud based. While all the devices are hooked up to the internet through the same routers, it actually does it all through a server at the MS company- and if our wifi internet goes out the iPhones connected to the system can still run on cell data. The iPads, and the MacBook Pro, can't, however.

So if you were in a no cell area, or without wifi, as is the case in many places on the western LD trains, you would be SOL until getting back in cell service area? Or does it work a different way?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

My system does batch unsent orders and sends them out when it gets in touch with the cloud. It does have an option to take unconfirmed credit cards for later processing. I don't use it- I don't have borscht for brains. But it can fully function without the cloud being connected. It just doesn't send the information to the broader system until it has connection.

 

[The Chief]

And of course there are even, I kid you not, FREE POS software systems out there. The one I use is combined with my merchant services system (I.e. Credit cards) and the only thing I pay for is a single percentage of sale fee on credit cards. So it really is free if I was brainless enough to not take credit cards.

Good point GML; I've thought the same thing. We live in an App world.

This isn't the thread, but many of us would like to see some upgrades on some Legacy systems (I'm thinking ARROW is one).

My understanding on (some of) the Chicago-St Paul Stub (Builder) (807 / 808) trains this week didn't even show in the (public facing) res system (for some time). Rather the oft used Service Disruption was in use to the actually open route.

Can we say what was used was a POS and what's needed is a POS?

 

[neroden]

For the wireless communication, the way to do it is to have a local WiFi hub computer in the dining car. The radio waves will connect from the handheld devices to the local hub, no problem. If connectivity to the outside world comes and goes, *that's OK*, the system still works.

This should be pretty easy to do. It's likely to even work off the shelf with some of the off-the-shelf systems, though rrdude would know better than I about that.

 

[rrdude]

For the wireless communication, the way to do it is to have a local WiFi hub computer in the dining car. The radio waves will connect from the handheld devices to the local hub, no problem. If connectivity to the outside world comes and goes, *that's OK*, the system still works.This should be pretty easy to do. It's likely to even work off the shelf with some of the off-the-shelf systems, though rrdude would know better than I about that.

Pretty much nailed it, a LAN, is used for POS (fixed or hand-held) to Kitchen printers, while a WAN is used for internect connection, with built-in cellular back up for CC Auth

 

[tonys96]

For the wireless communication, the way to do it is to have a local WiFi hub computer in the dining car. The radio waves will connect from the handheld devices to the local hub, no problem. If connectivity to the outside world comes and goes, *that's OK*, the system still works.This should be pretty easy to do. It's likely to even work off the shelf with some of the off-the-shelf systems, though rrdude would know better than I about that.

Pretty much nailed it, a LAN, is used for POS (fixed or hand-held) to Kitchen printers, while a WAN is used for internect connection, with built-in cellular back up for CC Auth

Which is probably why they have not installed it yet........it would take a capital outlay to start and they are not spending any money, instead they are cutting back on things to save money. Even if spending a little right now might increase revenues (or cut costs) in the future, and if the cost cuts implemented might prove to decrease revenues in the future.

Every manager has to make decisions and implement their own vision, some win, some lose. JCPenney's recent fiasco comes to mind.......

 

[neroden]

Even if spending a little right now might increase revenues (or cut costs) in the future, and if the cost cuts implemented might prove to decrease revenues in the future.

"Cut costs" until you go bankrupt, it's been done by many companies before. We can only hope for a reversal in attitude. I wish Amtrak had stuck to the attitude shown in the PIPs, which was a pretty good attitude.

 

[haolerider]

Even if spending a little right now might increase revenues (or cut costs) in the future, and if the cost cuts implemented might prove to decrease revenues in the future.

"Cut costs" until you go bankrupt, it's been done by many companies before. We can only hope for a reversal in attitude. I wish Amtrak had stuck to the attitude shown in the PIPs, which was a pretty good attitude.

Most of the employees involved in the PIP program have left the company, some voluntarily and others Either forced out or retired. The program was positive, but was fought by Operations management.

 

[neroden]

Most of the employees involved in the PIP program have left the company, some voluntarily and others

Either forced out or retired. The program was positive, but was fought by Operations management.

Now that's bad news. If correct, there seem to be some bad eggs in Operations management who are out to kill Amtrak and need to get fired for cause. Opposing operational improvements which will increase revenue, while simultaneously supporting stupid service quality reductions which will drive people away? People who act this way don't belong in Amtrak management.

 

[Ryan]

This is also the same operations department that makes it difficult for reasonable connections to be added into ARROW so that trips can be booked on AGR redemptions.

Because, reasons, and stuff. Why can't we get rid of those jokers?

 

[Bob Dylan]

This is also the same operations department that makes it difficult for reasonable connections to be added into ARROW so that trips can be booked on AGR redemptions.

Because, reasons, and stuff. Why can't we get rid of those jokers?

Yep, the classic Potomac Two-Step where the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing and when someone points it out a turf war breaks out and nothing gets fixed! Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians!

 

[PRR 60]

This is also the same operations department that makes it difficult for reasonable connections to be added into ARROW so that trips can be booked on AGR redemptions.

Because, reasons, and stuff. Why can't we get rid of those jokers?

Because, the operation side of the Amtrak house runs the show, and no one has ever dared challenge that.

 

[jis]

Actually some have tried to challenge and got summarily ejected. :-/

 

[greatcats]

If I was working for Amtrak, given my outspoken history on NJ Transit, It would be likely thatcIbroo would be ejected!

 

[greatcats]

I too!

 

[haolerider]

I too!

On the positive side, some of the Operations people were also ejected!

 

[jis]

I too!

On the positive side, some of the Operations people were also ejected!

Indeed! Now that you mention it, that is certainly true. At least the one that immediately comes to mind IMHO was quite worthy of being ejected too.

 

[PaulM]

Most of the employees involved in the PIP program have left the company, some voluntarily and othersEither forced out or retired. The program was positive, but was fought by Operations management.

You seem to be attributing the nickel and diming (the subject of the thread) to operations rather than bean counters, In most industries, operations and bean counters are mortal enemies.

Could someone explain what the term "operation management" or "operations" means with reference to Amtrak?

 

[PaulM]

This is also the same operations department that makes it difficult for reasonable connections to be added into ARROW so that trips can be booked on AGR redemptions.

Because, reasons, and stuff. Why can't we get rid of those jokers?

Because, the operation side of the Amtrak house runs the show, and no one has ever dared challenge that.

But we are constantly told that Amtrak and AGR are separate. More specifically, does operations force AGR to stick by the published route rule even though it has been shown to be arbitrary and illogical?

 

[PRR 60]

This is also the same operations department that makes it difficult for reasonable connections to be added into ARROW so that trips can be booked on AGR redemptions.

Because, reasons, and stuff. Why can't we get rid of those jokers?

Because, the operation side of the Amtrak house runs the show, and no one has ever dared challenge that.

But we are constantly told that Amtrak and AGR are separate. More specifically, does operations force AGR to stick by the published route rule even though it has been shown to be arbitrary and illogical?

AGR can suggest, but the final decision is not AGR's.