Aaron
Lead Service Attendant
I've seen another scanned document floating around detailing a plan being implemented in 2016 to replace the folding chair with an upside down plastic bucket.
Amenities Being Eliminated from Long Distance Routes
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Really? I think they take quite a bit of scenery away. Often the windows are dingy or crazed and enjoying the scenery can be quite difficult.
Speaking of which - do they still wash the windows in ABQ?
AmCans have windows? Gimmie a Talgo or Chinese railway window any day. Remember the first AmCans? It was even worse than today.
montana mike
Conductor
Ah, this is an example of an organization that just doesn't "Get It!!". Can you imagine a firm that is truly in the business of taking care of customers well-like Disney, The Ritz Carlton or LL Bean being so rigid and uncaring? Not!!! Since I have enjoyed literally dozens and dozens of these W&C events there have been a small number of people who enjoyed the "cheese and crackers" but chose to just sip water instead of the wine. None of the Attendants minded at all at these events. I guess it was the luck of the draw (or lack thereof) for you--bummer......
montana mike
Conductor
Yes, I also remember the cookies--sorry to see those disappear a while back as well.
tim49424
Engineer
Not had cookies before, but I've only made two round-trips.
Never experienced windows so bad that the scenery was skewed or difficult to see from the sleepers. Coach, yes, but I've seen everything there is on the route I used to take riding in coach....did that two dozen times, so looking out the window didn't matter to me. If at some time, it does happen that the window in my room isn't clean, there is always the sightseer lounge.
Ryan
Court Jester
It's all a matter of perspective. If I'm the customer that gets to attend the wine tasting, I'm pretty pleased to have not been shut out of the event by someone there that's not participating and just taking up space.
caravanman
Engineer
The front page of amtraktrains.com has a picture of flowers in a vase, maybe now the page should be re-vamped... I vote for something exciting and interesting, rather than the very staid present offering!
Ed
Ed
Aaron
Lead Service Attendant
Leaving aside the questions of the truth or amount of actual savings in the olive story (debated here), a useful counterpoint to that story is Bob Farrell's "Pickle Principle", teaching his employees to not get hung up on disappointing customers with little piddly things like the cost of an extra pickle and just "give 'em the pickle". The principle is that the bad impression given by the argument over the price of the pickle is way more costly to the bottom line over the long run than just giving them the pickle. It costs virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things, and leaves a much better impression in the minds of customers.
As an aside, the first time that I realized that "consultants" in my industry were worthless was a convention where in the same day, two different "consultant" speakers gave the exact opposite advice in telling us the best way to treat our customers. One based her whole talk on the olive story, the other based his entire talk on the pickle story. The only thing I took home from that convention is that it was vitally important to be constantly concerned about which garnish to provide to which person when.
I will miss the wine and cheese tastings. Those afternoon tastings truly made long distance train travel special. I hope the PPC isn't discontinued. I'm gathering points this year for a round trip cross country trip in a roomette for sometime next year.I hope there are no other amenities dropped in the future I can't think of any others.Hopefully meals will still be offered as part of the sleeper fare.
I'm going to play Devi's Advocate here, but why is everyone fuming about losing champagne, chocolate, and amenity bags on the EB and CS, but nobody seems to care that those things aren't available on the other LD routes? People keep talking about the "first class experience" as if it extends to all trains, but the other trains don't have those items.
I suppose that's why this isn't a huge deal to me. I'm not accustomed to any of those things, other than the flowers, and those are just decor.
I don't see it as a "slippery slope", since this isn't system-wide. The EB and CS will simply match the SWC, CZ, and other LD trains. We've been slumming it for years.
I will still enjoy having a private room with a call button to summon the SCA, a bed to sleep in, delicious meals in the dining car, and a shower with complimentary towels and washcloths. Maybe I'm a heathen, but that, to me, is still first class service.
It occurs to me that I may be too easy-going and not prone to panic about little things that may be bigger in the grand scheme, but such is life.
I suppose that's why this isn't a huge deal to me. I'm not accustomed to any of those things, other than the flowers, and those are just decor.
I don't see it as a "slippery slope", since this isn't system-wide. The EB and CS will simply match the SWC, CZ, and other LD trains. We've been slumming it for years.
I will still enjoy having a private room with a call button to summon the SCA, a bed to sleep in, delicious meals in the dining car, and a shower with complimentary towels and washcloths. Maybe I'm a heathen, but that, to me, is still first class service.
It occurs to me that I may be too easy-going and not prone to panic about little things that may be bigger in the grand scheme, but such is life.
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Ryan
Court Jester
My takeaway from that is to not sweat the small stuff - the more important thing is that the underlying product is fundamentally sound. If the product is fundamentally sound, nobody is going to miss the olive and live will go on. But if it isn't, and your business depends on not having excess pickle costs for the handful of people that ask for them, then you're screwed - something is going to come along and do you in, it's just a matter of time.
Applied to Amtrak, if we had things like great on time percentage, well maintained equipment (and plenty of it!) and a consistently friendly and top notch staff, things like this wouldn't be an issue. But we don't, and thus they are.
tim49424
Engineer
I'm going to play Devi's Advocate here, but why is everyone fuming about losing champagne, chocolate, and amenity bags on the EB and CS, but nobody seems to care that those things aren't available on the other LD routes? People keep talking about the "first class experience" as if it extends to all trains, but the other trains don't have those items.
I suppose that's why this isn't a huge deal to me. I'm not accustomed to any of those things, other than the flowers, and those are just decor.
I don't see it as a "slippery slope", since this isn't system-wide. The EB and CS will simply match the SWC, CZ, and other LD trains. We've been slumming it for years.
I will still enjoy having a private room with a call button to summon the SCA, a bed to sleep in, delicious meals in the dining car, and a shower with complimentary towels and washcloths. Maybe I'm a heathen, but that, to me, is still first class service.
Agreed 100% Sarah. I couldn't have said it any better.
Even though I've received many of the "extras" that won't be available any more, I don't expect, need or necessarily even want them, as I've stated previously. I'll still feel like I'll get my complete money's worth (and more) on LD trips.
montana mike
Conductor
Did you ever experience real first class train experiences either in Europe or here many years ago? It was truly remarkable. There are but a few left.
This does indeed appear to be a race to the bottom. The MOST successful operations in the world--In ANY business--go above and beyond the "expected" or the "average". While people do accept "average" they remember "exceptional". For example: I try to stay at certain lodging properties around North America when I can because of my exceptional experiences at them, not because they were average. Life is indeed a journey. If you don't "go for the gusto" and try to be the very best and enjoy it to the fullest at the end what have you achieved?
It is indeed sad that Amtrak has given up on trying to be that "exceptional" experience. I know they fumbled the ball a lot, but at least in some instances they genuinely tried. Clearly now that will not be the case going forward. Sad to see.......
This does indeed appear to be a race to the bottom. The MOST successful operations in the world--In ANY business--go above and beyond the "expected" or the "average". While people do accept "average" they remember "exceptional". For example: I try to stay at certain lodging properties around North America when I can because of my exceptional experiences at them, not because they were average. Life is indeed a journey. If you don't "go for the gusto" and try to be the very best and enjoy it to the fullest at the end what have you achieved?
It is indeed sad that Amtrak has given up on trying to be that "exceptional" experience. I know they fumbled the ball a lot, but at least in some instances they genuinely tried. Clearly now that will not be the case going forward. Sad to see.......
Yup, I'm packing my travel pillow, NorthFace sleeping bag, windex wipes (for the windows Amtrak rarely cleans anymore) camp stove, and freeze dried food. Wait, that's what I needed 40 years ago when I traveled in coach on the Ferrocarril Nacional de México. (It was like living a National Geographic movie) Maybe Amtrak is trying to emulate Mexico's passenger rail service.
It's a joke guys, I know Amtrak is doing the best they can, with what little they can. But you all know me. "Little things" often cost zero or next-to-nothing, and often provide the most memorable part of a rail journey or dining experience.
It's a joke guys, I know Amtrak is doing the best they can, with what little they can. But you all know me. "Little things" often cost zero or next-to-nothing, and often provide the most memorable part of a rail journey or dining experience.
My "home" train is the Texas Eagle, which has none of these amenities. That said, when we took the CS and EB last summer, we really enjoyed the wine & cheese deal. I do not drink but the g/f does and she had a blast, I ate cheese, she drank wine. Met many good folks and had more conversation and fellowship afterward on both trains. Losing that will make the trip less enjoyable, unless replaced by something different.
The little champagne bottles were useless.....but the small bag of toiletries was magnificent. I still have mine and consider it a very expensive souvenir. But it is a small remembrance of the time on the trains. A good thoughtful touch, like the cookies at a Double Tree hotel.
Never got the chocolate.....but I cannot imagine it to be a huge dollar saver to stop them. I can understand the newspaper loss....newsprint is dying everywhere, sadly.
Here is my take-away: Those who pay a pretty hefty premium for sleeper travel should get a few amenities, I DO subscribe to the slippery-slope theory here, next year we might hear "Amtrak spends tax dollars supplying coffee to high rollers in sleeper cars! What a waste of your taxes!" or the like. It is a never ending cycle, I am afraid. Taking the train has been for the travel experience, since air travel was deregulated. The journey to the destination is just as important as the destination here, and lessening that experience cannot be productive, in fact it is counter-productive.
YMMV
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zepherdude
OBS Chief
I think the days of being pampered are way over. All these things are just perks, not many people get perks anymore, anywhere. How many passengers actually purchased a bottle of wine. People like the wine and cheese because its free. I have never received chocolates and give the amenity kits away at Christmas, flowers are nice but not necessary. Everything is about money and being cost efficient and that is the way it goes. Have not received newspapers in many trips , so I won't miss them. None of these affect passenger service. One gets a room and a meal, which is what one is paying for.
What does one get in the First Class cabin on an airplane, a bigger seat and maybe a meal. No difference, unless going across the pond or to Asia. That is what one pays for and that is what one gets. American Airlines once cut the olives from coach salads and saved 4 million bucks a year. Oh yeh, F/C Flight Attendant to hang up your coat and say Thank You Mr. Zepherdude! That's it!
Think about the barzillions Amtrak looses each year, then decide if you really miss the a small glass of California wine, cheese square and stale cracker.
What does one get in the First Class cabin on an airplane, a bigger seat and maybe a meal. No difference, unless going across the pond or to Asia. That is what one pays for and that is what one gets. American Airlines once cut the olives from coach salads and saved 4 million bucks a year. Oh yeh, F/C Flight Attendant to hang up your coat and say Thank You Mr. Zepherdude! That's it!
Think about the barzillions Amtrak looses each year, then decide if you really miss the a small glass of California wine, cheese square and stale cracker.
My Answers in bold, in-line above.....
warbonnet
Service Attendant
Being a Californian, we expect to have good wine with dinner. We always bought and least one, sometime 2 bottles of wine at the wine tasting events. A good selection around $20.00 The dining car staff has always stored our purchased wine until dinner, and cheerfully uncorked and poured it when we arrive in the diner. We usually share the wine with our new tablemates, whoever they are. What a great way to make new friends over drinks and dinner. Some of our greatest train memories are sharing wine with complete strangers. We would talk until they kicked us out at closing time! The wine offered on the dinner menu is a split (half bottle) for $16.00 dollars. That's $32.00 a bottle. A big rip off. Under the new plan, I would like to suggest to Amtrak for the future, that first class sleeping car pax be allowed to bring their own wine to the diner, and charge a corking fee as some restaurants do. At $32.00 a bottle in the diner, that's a show stopper.
Wb
Wb
fairviewroad
Engineer
- Joined
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I'll miss the newspapers because unlike others here, I still read a paper everyday. The problem with discontinuing the papers is not the lack of a "free" item, but rather the difficulty of procuring a newspaper en route. Much easier to grab one from the stack in the sleeping car than have to traipse around an unfamiliar station looking for a newspaper box that needs exact change and might or might not have a current edition. I'd be happy to pay for the papers on board, provided it was an actual newspaper and not a warmed over USA Today.
As for the little champagne bottles...or in our case, the Martinelli cider bottles. These aren't a "big deal" but I can still remember the first time my wife and I rode Amtrak sleeping class. In our case we boarded the CS in LAX, settled into our compartment, and were greeted by a friendly SCA who offered us a cold beverage. As we sipped our cider gliding north from LAX, we marveled at how "luxurious" everything felt. We saved those little bottles for several years after that, as it was a tangible memory of a very good experience.
As for the little champagne bottles...or in our case, the Martinelli cider bottles. These aren't a "big deal" but I can still remember the first time my wife and I rode Amtrak sleeping class. In our case we boarded the CS in LAX, settled into our compartment, and were greeted by a friendly SCA who offered us a cold beverage. As we sipped our cider gliding north from LAX, we marveled at how "luxurious" everything felt. We saved those little bottles for several years after that, as it was a tangible memory of a very good experience.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
I think the most concerning part of the notice is trend it now resumes. People are talking about how they couldn't care less about this or that specific amenity, and that's fine, but I think they may be missing the bigger picture. Ask yourself this question. If Amtrak focuses on recovering costs by cutting services where does this process end? Does it end with substantially cheaper tickets? Does it end with politicians of a certain mindset burying the hatchet and supporting Amtrak? Does it end with Amtrak becoming so profitable it can make up for ever more severe budget cuts? I'm having a hard time seeing the positive side of these changes. The explanations people are giving for these cuts could be applied to virtually everything Amtrak offers. If you compare the golden era of train travel to the level of service we have today the differences are stark, but none of that happened overnight. It was a long series of cuts that each took away only a few seemingly insignificant services at a time. For those who say they crave consistency over all other considerations, perhaps you'd consider the Supermax vacation service for your next family holiday. It's 100% consistent in every possible way with no chance of any surprises.
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As a devil's advocate...
From a COACH passengers perspective:
1. Wine and cheese tasting. Whats that?
2. Complementary champagne, cider, and cranberry juice. Where?
3. Newspapers. Dumpster dive if you want one.
4. Amenity Kits. Huh?
5. Flowers and vases. That nice... when does my food get here?
6. Chocolates? The kids will just mess the seats (and I have never seen them even in sleeper)
Seriously,
These amenities need to be provided on all trains, or don't bother.
The wine and cheese tasting, and the champagne and cider... not needed.
The cranberry juice... This is a cost/usage decision that management should make, and be respected.
Newspapers are nice, but one or two copies in the lounge(s) would be all thats needed... Picking up local papers at intermediate stations would be a nice, inexpensive touch.
Amenity kits most likely go to waste as most people have there favorite brands of toothpaste/shampoo, etc. HOWEVER the lounge car should have a basic inventory of toothpaste, toothbrushes, floss, shampoo, soap, cough drops, and other essential hygiene products for sale.
Vases should be provided by Amtrak, but as an option for the OBS diner staff.
Flowers and chocolates should be an option for the OBS diner/sleeper staff to provide, make it THEIR decision if it increases tips to make it worthwhile (and the costs should be tax deductible as an unreimbursed expense). On the lines of this specifically allow crew members to provide extra “little things” at their expense, though rules/guidelines of what NOT to do would be needed.
From a COACH passengers perspective:
1. Wine and cheese tasting. Whats that?
2. Complementary champagne, cider, and cranberry juice. Where?
3. Newspapers. Dumpster dive if you want one.
4. Amenity Kits. Huh?
5. Flowers and vases. That nice... when does my food get here?
6. Chocolates? The kids will just mess the seats (and I have never seen them even in sleeper)
Seriously,
These amenities need to be provided on all trains, or don't bother.
The wine and cheese tasting, and the champagne and cider... not needed.
The cranberry juice... This is a cost/usage decision that management should make, and be respected.
Newspapers are nice, but one or two copies in the lounge(s) would be all thats needed... Picking up local papers at intermediate stations would be a nice, inexpensive touch.
Amenity kits most likely go to waste as most people have there favorite brands of toothpaste/shampoo, etc. HOWEVER the lounge car should have a basic inventory of toothpaste, toothbrushes, floss, shampoo, soap, cough drops, and other essential hygiene products for sale.
Vases should be provided by Amtrak, but as an option for the OBS diner staff.
Flowers and chocolates should be an option for the OBS diner/sleeper staff to provide, make it THEIR decision if it increases tips to make it worthwhile (and the costs should be tax deductible as an unreimbursed expense). On the lines of this specifically allow crew members to provide extra “little things” at their expense, though rules/guidelines of what NOT to do would be needed.
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montana mike
Conductor
DA--Well stated!!!
fairviewroad
Engineer
- Joined
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7. The extra money that people pay to ride in sleeping class? What's that?
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