Amtrak America - new LD train branding

[xyzzy]

Fewer than 1% of Amtrak's customers care about the livery.

If that's actually true then why bother repainting everything?

Because companies get caught up in the purity of branding, or they figure that they have to repaint everything from time to time anyway. I fly on American Airlines almost every week. Do I care what logo is on their website or whether the fuselage is the new paint scheme or the old polished aluminum? Not a bit. But I understand why AA did it... partly to prove a point, partly to prepare for the US Airways merger (if it happens), partly because they'll be acquiring composite-frame aircraft.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Fewer than 1% of Amtrak's customers care about the livery.

If that's actually true then why bother repainting everything?

Because companies get caught up in the purity of branding, or they figure that they have to repaint everything from time to time anyway. I fly on American Airlines almost every week. Do I care what logo is on their website or whether the fuselage is the new paint scheme or the old polished aluminum? Not a bit. But I understand why AA did it... partly to prove a point, partly to prepare for the US Airways merger (if it happens), partly because they'll be acquiring composite-frame aircraft.

During the span of AA's one branding scheme change Amtrak has now gone through no less than five separate schemes.

 

[xyzzy]

True. On the other hand, during that period Delta has been through 5 that I can think of: current, swoosh tail, D-e-l-t-a on the tail, Song, and the classic from the 1960s. I don't have enough fingers to count Piedmont/USAir/USAirways schemes (remember MetroJet?) during that same time.

 

[The Journalist]

I had a weird dream last night, and the only part of it I remember clearly is it involved a Superliner in these colors. So, uh, I guess it's making an impression?

Side note: count me as one who misses ostentatious liveries; similarly, I find the current Amtrak scheme rather dull. I actually liked the "splotches" scheme on the Regionals that they used for a while.

 

[The Journalist]

Having forgotten about MetroJet, I looked it up and found this:



Man, that's got to be the most confused livery I've ever seen on a single object. There's three different brandings on there…I can understand the worry about mismatched trains if that's what it'll end up looking like.

 

[cpamtfan]

First off, the only thing "painted" anymore in the Amtrak fleet are the locomotives and MOW equipment. All coaches and such are vinyl wrap now.

Secondly, the least of everyones concerns should be about how the cars are painted. Things that have always been issues are how well their built, how will the interiors hold up, will all the outlets work, etc.

The difference between what Phase III was in 1999 is totally different than it is now. Back then, it signified the decay and unpleasantness of Amtrak. Now, it actually signifies something new.

In my opinion, Amtrak should just scrap a set paint scheme and switch to specific colors for specific sections of the train. This could be done system wide to all long distance equipment.

Example:

RED = sleeper class

BLUE= coach/economy what ever it should be called

Baggage and food service cars could either be unwrapped, and just be plain stainless steel (a great look IMO), a Phase III type bridge, or have a simple white stripe to "connect" the train

 

[VT Hokie]

Over on Railroad.net there's a ton of people complaining about how Amtrak just got to one paint job.. Who cares if it runs well?

How about having the trains run well AND not look like crap. Something Amtrak has finally achieved with a uniform, professional looking color scheme and is now going to throw away by going back to mix & match rainbow trains.

 

[xyzzy]

There were some MetroJet 737-200s painted in solid red. But MetroJet was so short-lived that not all the aircraft assigned to it by USAir were repainted.

Notice the ex-Hawaiian DC-9 in the background and what appears to be a Transamerica jet.

 

[zephyr17]

I think they should go bare stainless steel, like any self respecting stainless streamliner should. Letter it with "Amtrak".

 

[Big Iron]

I think they should go bare stainless steel, like any self respecting stainless streamliner should. Letter it with "Amtrak".

I don't guess I need to tell you but as far as I'm concerned the CB&Q livery was the best of them all.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

From Politico's Morning Transportation Report from 10/25/13:

BOARDMAN OPTIMISTIC ABOUT REAUTHORIZATION: All the early indications out of the House Transportation Committee are that its upcoming Amtrak bill could include some pretty big changes to the money-losing long-distance routes. But that's not worrying Joe Boardman, Amtrak's president and CEO, who announced Thursday that the first of the railroad's 130 new cars -costing nearly $300 million - are nearly done and all will be delivered by the end of 2015. Boardman said he hadn't seen any legislative text yet but thinks "there's a continuing desire on Chairman Denham and Chairman Shuster's part" to have a bill ready this year. Boardman said part of Denham and Shuster's problem is Congress in general: "I think they get the fact that there's this importance of long-distance trains. I think they're hampered by the difficulties in Washington today, trying to find where money will come from to deliver, not only for this but for all the other kinds of programs we're trying to make happen today. So, from that standpoint, I'm pleased that we have two chairman that are trying to pay attention to and having a discussion about the necessities, and I also understand the position they're in."

All of this has an eerie ring to it... New and/or redone cars, serious questions about the viability of LD trains.. A national train service going in one direction while the conservative elements of a national government go in the opposite direction... Obviously there are some major differences, but its a bit like VIA and Canada these days, eh?

 

[caravanman]

The expression "Put out more flags" comes to my mind. Unable to resolve basic passengers concerns such proper cleaning of toilets, regulation of temperatures, clean windows, or provide well trained customer service staff, they decide to re-paint the rolling stock?? Whoopie!!

Ed.

 

[jis]

In my opinion, Amtrak should just scrap a set paint scheme and switch to specific colors for specific sections of the train. This could be done system wide to all long distance equipment.

Example:

RED = sleeper class

BLUE= coach/economy what ever it should be called

Baggage and food service cars could either be unwrapped, and just be plain stainless steel (a great look IMO), a Phase III type bridge, or have a simple white stripe to "connect" the train

I think there is a middle way. There are two practices short of simply having completely different liveries that are used effectively in Europe:
1. A stripe near the roof line of a specific color for each class.

2. A diagonal stripe across the door of a color depicting the class.

In both cases the basic theme based on a service type is maintained as a background with the class colors overlayed.

Afterall, it seems to me that the idea of a Thalys, or TGV or Eurostar or ICE brand color uniformly across the train is a good thing. Similar to that having an Amtrak America, Amtrak Cascade, Amtrak California Amtrak NEC etc. livery would be a good thing.

Ideally each of these should be viewed and structured as a TOC (Train Operating Company). In principle there could be an Amtrak Virginia with a distinct scheme that provides equipment for run through trains on the NEC carrying colors of Amtrak Virginia, while Amtrak NEC provides equipment for some run throughs to Virginia carrying Amtrak NEC colors. And then again there would probably be a few weird trains that equipment from a pool, and those might land up with rainbow consists like used to happen back when too.

Service brand color distinguishing trains is very important to avoid confusion among passengers. For example most people now know the NJT and Amtrak service brand colors and usually do not make the mistake of walking onto a wrong train (in most cases.... there are always exceptionally disconnected from reality people who will do all sorts of weird things irrespective of the obvious).

 

[jis]

The expression "Put out more flags" comes to my mind. Unable to resolve basic passengers concerns such proper cleaning of toilets, regulation of temperatures, clean windows, or provide well trained customer service staff, they decide to re-paint the rolling stock?? Whoopie!!

Ed.

Currently it is just paint new cars. What will happen with grand plans to repaint, or actually no paint involved, re-decal, is another matter. But most likely it will happen since it is not exceedingly expensive anyway.

 

[Trogdor]

In my opinion, Amtrak should just scrap a set paint scheme and switch to specific colors for specific sections of the train. This could be done system wide to all long distance equipment.

Example:

RED = sleeper class

BLUE= coach/economy what ever it should be called

Baggage and food service cars could either be unwrapped, and just be plain stainless steel (a great look IMO), a Phase III type bridge, or have a simple white stripe to "connect" the train

I think there is a middle way. There are two practices short of simply having completely different liveries that are used effectively in Europe:
1. A stripe near the roof line of a specific color for each class.

2. A diagonal stripe across the door of a color depicting the class.

In both cases the basic theme based on a service type is maintained as a background with the class colors overlayed.

Amtrak started doing that with the Acela Regional back in 2000 or so. The Amfleets were painted in the "lava lamp" style paint scheme, with different color combinations being for the different types of cars (coach, cafe, business class, plus even a couple of heritage baggage cars).

Of course, they didn't get very far into the fleet, and still had a mix of Acela, phase IV, and phase III cars in the consists. Eventually, David Gunn came along and had everything painted in the same paint, modified phase IV scheme, and that's where we are today (or, were, until the foamers longing for a return to the 1980s started painting stuff again).

 

[Nathanael]

I think they should go bare stainless steel, like any self respecting stainless streamliner should. Letter it with "Amtrak".

FWIW, the use of vinyl decals means that they are basically bare stainless steel. Changing color schemes is much cheaper with vinyl decals than with paint.

 

[zephyr17]

I think they should go bare stainless steel, like any self respecting stainless streamliner should. Letter it with "Amtrak".

FWIW, the use of vinyl decals means that they are basically bare stainless steel. Changing color schemes is much cheaper with vinyl decals than with paint.

I really was talking more aesthetics than maintenance. The decals make it look "painted". I meant have the look of a classic bare stainless streamliner, like Santa Fe, Burlington, etc. By all means use a decal for the Amtrak lettering or logo instead of painting it on, but lose the window band striping.

 

[buddy559]

True. On the other hand, during that period Delta has been through 5 that I can think of: current, swoosh tail, D-e-l-t-a on the tail, Song, and the classic from the 1960s. I don't have enough fingers to count Piedmont/USAir/USAirways schemes (remember MetroJet?) during that same time.

Is "swoosh tail" the tri colored wrinkled blanket tail?

 

[railbuck]

True. On the other hand, during that period Delta has been through 5 that I can think of: current, swoosh tail, D-e-l-t-a on the tail, Song, and the classic from the 1960s. I don't have enough fingers to count Piedmont/USAir/USAirways schemes (remember MetroJet?) during that same time.

Is "swoosh tail" the tri colored wrinkled blanket tail?

Officially known as "Colors in Motion" but often referred to as "wavy gravy."

 

[Alika]

{sigh} As someone with a bit of a design background, I must say Amtrak really needs to get a clue when it comes to branding. You don't restore a bygone logo or livery design unless it evokes a positive nostalgia for the kind of service you provided during that era. Amtrak is a company that needs to accentuate the potential in its future instead of looking back on its mediocre past.

I'm all for ditching the Phase IVb livery. I've never liked its "let's paint horizontal stripes on everything and make damn sure the lines are of varying widths so that all of our consists look sloppy" approach. Will bringing back Phase III (and an out-of-date logo) help? Well, outside of the foamer and passenger rail advocate communities, the popular perception is that Amtrak's long-distance rail service is dated. How is bringing back a dated 1980s livery supposed to suggest that Amtrak is looking to the future?

Like a couple other posters, I am one of the folks who more-or-less likes the design direction of the Phase V / Acela livery. It's nice to have seen Amtrak--at least once--ditch its boring, dated, and impractical horizontal striping and think outside the Ambox.

You want America (and Congress, for that matter) to realize that you're trying to push the envelope by aggressively rebuilding passenger rail in America? Then brand your fleet accordingly. And if it help builds Amtrak as a cohesive, forward-looking national brand, bring the regional affiliates on board with your design direction, kicking and screaming if need be. If they want to trade on your name, they're going to do it by your rules. Show that you're willing to push more boundaries service-wise by pushing more boundaries design-wise.

 

[boxcarsyix]

Im not sure that AMTRAK needs to have stripes at all. Many of the railroads with stainless steel cars just put the road name at the top of the car and left the rest alone. That would save money and and solve the uniformity problem.

 

[FriskyFL]

Amtrak needs far more than a livery tweak - Amtrak needs to take control of the entire narrative, which for far too long has been written by the Right-wingnuts and fellow travelers. Convincing Right thinking America that Amtrak is far more than a money pit run solely by godless liberals.

 

[printman2000]

Im not sure that AMTRAK needs to have stripes at all. Many of the railroads with stainless steel cars just put the road name at the top of the car and left the rest alone. That would save money and and solve the uniformity problem.

Been saying that for years! Check out a totally stripped down transition sleeper. I think it looks great. Just add some black AMTRAK lettering...

Photo courtesy of Tom Bedwell

 

[Bob Dylan]

True the Plain Stainless Steel look with Amtrak Block Lettering! Logos and Paint Jobs are a waste of limited funds!

 

[NE933]

{sigh} As someone with a bit of a design background, I must say Amtrak really needs to get a clue when it comes to branding. You don't restore a bygone logo or livery design unless it evokes a positive nostalgia for the kind of service you provided during that era. Amtrak is a company that needs to accentuate the potential in its future instead of looking back on its mediocre past.

I'm all for ditching the Phase IVb livery. I've never liked its "let's paint horizontal stripes on everything and make damn sure the lines are of varying widths so that all of our consists look sloppy" approach. Will bringing back Phase III (and an out-of-date logo) help? Well, outside of the foamer and passenger rail advocate communities, the popular perception is that Amtrak's long-distance rail service is dated. How is bringing back a dated 1980s livery supposed to suggest that Amtrak is looking to the future?

Part of the problem here is knowing what's what: Amtrak's long distance trains, circa 1980's and up to and including 1993, were exemplary operations. The "mediocre" is what we have in today's era. My reasoning is that back then, there were four more long distance routes than there are now and many more railcars, sleepers in particular, available to run long distance trains.

I have to blend in Northeast Corridor in this topic because they are connected, and one does affect another: in the mid-80's after the NEC Improvement Project was done, the line NY to Washington was in ship-shape, unlike the battered, overwhelmed creature that it is now. I think Joe Boardman is a good leader, but W. Graham Claytor is the flagship President and CEO to which all before and after him shall be compared: he was focused, never distracted, and deftly used ultimatums (threatened to walk out on the job unless essential funding was secured, in hand, now, not later....).

In the years inclusive of 1980 to 1993, Amtrak aggressively placed several orders of badly needed rolling stock and, got them rolling right away, as soon as safe to do so. Numerous TV commercials and newspaper and magazine print ads boldly pressed campaigns that not only increased ridership, but changed a culture. "Maybe You're Next Flight Should Be On A Train", "Come To Where The Sun Greets The Earth", "We Carry You In The Best Cars Across America", and more, were beautifully superior to anything the airlines, highway lobbies, and even current Amtrak culture can muster up. Read those phrases and close your eyes: you can picture yourself in a large windowed train traversing the Great Plains, or a canyon, or towns and cities bustling with life. The Amtrak Long Distance of yore was threatened even back then, but the difference is where it used to be emphatic, bold, and unapologetic, now it's timid and it's leaders are distracted and unfocused. Maybe a reorganization into three business lines can help, but it seems we tried that under Thomas Downs.

That Amtrak is restoring a retired logo (the inverted arrow) and paint scheme is both an indictment against its own present handling of the affairs of the long distance overnight passenger train as well as of Congress' near criminal hostilities towards them, and, an effort to sort of get a genie out of the bottle in hopes to repair that product. To pull it off, somebody has to cough up, sh** out, money. Enough money to start buying Superliner III's, and more Viewliner II's. They have to do this before they get their next sleep on their bed pillow, before they have their next baby, before going to the next party and answering the next text. GETTING A NEW FLEET IS EVERYTHING; all else is secondary.