Amtrak America - new LD train branding

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Amtrak started doing that with the Acela Regional back in 2000 or so. The Amfleets were painted in the "lava lamp" style paint scheme, with different color combinations being for the different types of cars (coach, cafe, business class, plus even a couple of heritage baggage cars).

Of course, they didn't get very far into the fleet, and still had a mix of Acela, phase IV, and phase III cars in the consists. Eventually, David Gunn came along and had everything painted in the same paint, modified phase IV scheme, and that's where we are today (or, were, until the foamers longing for a return to the 1980s started painting stuff again).
Multiple branding / paint schemes dilute the overall product and brand recognition. If you want to talk about a strong national network, it should be uniform. It could be confusing to a traveler (especially a new traveler, which there are more and more of) to have the multiple branding
 
Multiple paint designs can get confusing, and I see this in State branding of the Cascades, California, and Surfliner product lines. We have creme, olive, brown, orange, and all blue colored trains.
 
Call me crazy, but I think it would be great if the paint on the outside was USEFUL and not just decorative. The vast majority of travelers (like myself) have no idea what the consist of the train is. So, why not paint each type of car with different stripes? Use red paint to write "COACH CAR" on the coach cars, blue to write "SLEEPING CAR", etc. That way, when it's time to board your train, you know whether a particular car is yours just by looking at it.
 
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Call me crazy, but I think it would be great if the paint on the outside was USEFUL and not just decorative. The vast majority of travelers (like myself) have no idea what the consist of the train is. So, why not paint each type of car with different stripes? Use red paint to write "COACH CAR" on the coach cars, blue to write "SLEEPING CAR", etc. That way, when it's time to board your train, you know whether a particular car is yours just by looking at it.
And another color for Business Class. Use the same colors across all services, so that it starts to become clear that red is always COACH, blue is always SLEEPER, green is always BUSINESS (or whatever colors you prefer). I believe this is the practice in Europe, or at least much of Europe. One color consistently indicates First/Business and another color consistently indicates Second/Coach.
 
They have the type car printed on them sometimes.
True, but I often find myself in one of two situations:

1) The train is pulling into a platform, & it would be nice to know how far I have to walk, rather than constantly reading each car as I walk by, while trying to avoid people who are trying to entrain or detrain around me. It would be nice to know whether I'm one car away, or 10 cars away - especially when there's a time constraint. I've often boarded at out-of-the-way stations where the train has to stop twice (I forget what they call that- double spotted?), and I'm the only passenger for that stop. It would be great for everyone involved if I could see which car I'm in ASAP.

2) In busy, crowded, dark stations like Chicago, anything to help move everyone around more quickly would be beneficial. Those platforms are so crowded you can't move past anyone, and I've often found myself being forced to wait in line behind a group of people who are all asking an Amtrak agent which car is theirs. Being able to shout "GO TO THE BLUE CAR!" would probably help everyone.
 
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Look at the dent on the top of the car, Mr FSS.

Your probably right. Picture was taken almost 10 years ago, so I really don't remember much about where it even was in the yard. They park accident repairs in one area and maintenance/upgrade repairs in another area.
 
They have the type car printed on them sometimes.
True, but I often find myself in one of two situations:1) The train is pulling into a platform, & it would be nice to know how far I have to walk, rather than constantly reading each car as I walk by, while trying to avoid people who are trying to entrain or detrain around me. It would be nice to know whether I'm one car away, or 10 cars away - especially when there's a time constraint. I've often boarded at out-of-the-way stations where the train has to stop twice (I forget what they call that- double spotted?), and I'm the only passenger for that stop. It would be great for everyone involved if I could see which car I'm in ASAP.

2) In busy, crowded, dark stations like Chicago, anything to help move everyone around more quickly would be beneficial. Those platforms are so crowded you can't move past anyone, and I've often found myself being forced to wait in line behind a group of people who are all asking an Amtrak agent which car is theirs. Being able to shout "GO TO THE BLUE CAR!" would probably help everyone.
What if there's more than one blue car? How does that help then?

Further, if you're the only passenger boarding at an out-of-the-way station, why does the train have to double-spot? Regardless, having car types painted different colors wouldn't change a thing, as you're still going to be standing where you're standing at the platform, and the train will still stop where it stops (which is up to the conductor and engineer to figure out). If you're the only person there, the conductor should have already figured out which car you need to board, and should spot the train such that that door is closest to wherever you are (unless the train has to spot in a specific position for some other reason, such as clearing a crossing or staying behind a signal; but as a passenger you wouldn't know that until the train stops anyway and the door opens with a crew member getting onto the platform).

Using the Chicago example, the poor lighting (combined with the fact that some could be visually impaired, or at least colorblind) would make the colors less useful. Much more useful would be simplifying the car numbering system, and actually having crews properly set the numbers. Things would be far simpler if folks were told to board car 4, rather than car 2132 (a single-digit number is far easier for the vast majority of the population to remember than a four-digit number). If the car numbers were actually correct (both inside and out) then things would be that much easier for passengers to figure out where they are.
 
If the car numbers were actually correct (both inside and out) then things would be that much easier for passengers to figure out where they are.
At Denver, not only are the car numbers correct, but last time I was there, the locations where each car will stop were marked in advance by little signs. That was certainly helpful. I haven't seen this particularly informative method used anywhere else.
 
If the car numbers were actually correct (both inside and out) then things would be that much easier for passengers to figure out where they are.
At Denver, not only are the car numbers correct, but last time I was there, the locations where each car will stop were marked in advance by little signs. That was certainly helpful. I haven't seen this particularly informative method used anywhere else.
I boarded #5 once and later at a stop where I got off to stretch my legs I noticed the number on my car was for #6. I think I informed the SCA, but don't recall.
 
Look at the dent on the top of the car, Mr FSS.
Your probably right. Picture was taken almost 10 years ago, so I really don't remember much about where it even was in the yard. They park accident repairs in one area and maintenance/upgrade repairs in another area.
According to Trainweb, lounge 33036 derailed in Kingman, AZ in 08/97, returned to service 08/10. It cost somewhere between $500K- $1.4 million to repair.
 
What if there's more than one blue car? How does that help then?

Further, if you're the only passenger boarding at an out-of-the-way station, why does the train have to double-spot? Regardless, having car types painted different colors wouldn't change a thing, as you're still going to be standing where you're standing at the platform, and the train will still stop where it stops (which is up to the conductor and engineer to figure out).
1) On most trains, the cars are usually grouped by type - sleepers together, coaches together. So, if there are 3 coaches and they're together near the end of the train, everyone can at least get to the correct area pretty easily. Even on trains like the EB with two sections, you could say "the blue cars in front" or something like that.

2) Perhaps I board in strange spots (small, unstaffed stations along the LSL/CL route through the midwest), but the platforms there are short. So, they have to spot for the sleeper, and then spot for the coach cars. I'm often on an award ticket, so I have a sleeper, but the few other passengers are almost always in coach. I know it can't be helped, but I always feel bad making people wait. I can tell the engineer feels the same, because as soon as my feet hit the doorway the train is moving again.

Nobody onboard knows who the passengers are. They can see a group of people milling about on the platform, but they have no idea who's in the sleepers and who's in coach.

As to how this helps - if I memorize the consist, I at least know which end of the train the car will be on. If I don't remember the consist - or for most people who wouldn't know or bother - I can see the red car (or blue car) coming from a mile away. I can tell whether I'm going to be at the front or back of the train while it's still pulling up to the platform, and can position myself in front of the door before the train even stops. It's faster for everyone.

I agree that it would help if the car numbers were correct, and if they used a simple two-digit numbering system. However, the average passenger doesn't know where to look on the car for the car number, plus there are two numbers on every car. If I'm new to Amtrak and I'm told that I'm in "Sleeping Car 4", and I walk by a car that's labeled "Sleeping Car 32103", I wouldn't think that's my car. I think your ideas are great, if Amtrak could do them - but coloring the cars would add another layer to the first system, without changing / complicating the numbering system. Plus, they're never going to need to change them, as a sleeper will always be a sleeper and a coach will always be a coach.
 
What if there's more than one blue car? How does that help then?

Further, if you're the only passenger boarding at an out-of-the-way station, why does the train have to double-spot? Regardless, having car types painted different colors wouldn't change a thing, as you're still going to be standing where you're standing at the platform, and the train will still stop where it stops (which is up to the conductor and engineer to figure out).
1) On most trains, the cars are usually grouped by type - sleepers together, coaches together. So, if there are 3 coaches and they're together near the end of the train, everyone can at least get to the correct area pretty easily. Even on trains like the EB with two sections, you could say "the blue cars in front" or something like that.

2) Perhaps I board in strange spots (small, unstaffed stations along the LSL/CL route through the midwest), but the platforms there are short. So, they have to spot for the sleeper, and then spot for the coach cars. I'm often on an award ticket, so I have a sleeper, but the few other passengers are almost always in coach. I know it can't be helped, but I always feel bad making people wait. I can tell the engineer feels the same, because as soon as my feet hit the doorway the train is moving again.
If the platforms are short, then it really doesn't matter where you stand or what color the cars are painted. The train requires two (or more) spots because not all of the cars where passengers will be boarding or alighting can fit with the doors on the platform. Usually (except for trains like the Builder or Lake Shore with sleepers at both ends) the double spots are one spot for sleepers, one for coaches. So, in your scenario, all the red cars will still spot/load at once, then all the blue cars. There's nothing a passenger (or the crew, for that matter) can do to change that, even if they knew exactly which car they were boarding.

As to how this helps - if I memorize the consist, I at least know which end of the train the car will be on. If I don't remember the consist - or for most people who wouldn't know or bother - I can see the red car (or blue car) coming from a mile away. I can tell whether I'm going to be at the front or back of the train while it's still pulling up to the platform, and can position myself in front of the door before the train even stops. It's faster for everyone.
I doubt you'd be able to see a red or blue car coming from a mile away (certainly not literally, and realistically, not even figuratively either). Unless there's a curve just beyond the platform, one really can't see what cars are on the train until it gets right up on the platform. Even if you could, you wouldn't know where the door was going to be because it's up to the conductor and engineer to spot the train. Excluding the NEC and certain terminal stations, Amtrak's platforms don't have markers/boarding positions on them (and where they do exist, those signs are much more effective at telling people where to stand than hoping that someone understands an esoteric color-coding system where they sprint to the correct spot on the platform once the train pulls in, in a race to be at the door before the train stops), so there's no way to know where any given car is going to stop. On short platforms, again, there's not much choice anyway, because it's where the specific car or cars being worked will fit, and if it requires multiple stops, then that's just what it is.
 
If the car numbers were actually correct (both inside and out) then things would be that much easier for passengers to figure out where they are.
At Denver, not only are the car numbers correct, but last time I was there, the locations where each car will stop were marked in advance by little signs. That was certainly helpful. I haven't seen this particularly informative method used anywhere else.
I've always wondered why they don't do this in Chicago, especially for the LSL. "Board here for South Bend through Cleveland" "Erie through Syracuse" maybe with the intermediate stations also listed, on a sandwich board with slots or pegs so the station names can be moved around to adjust for the loads for that run. Then the car attendants can actually help passengers board and settle in instead of directing traffic.
 
If the platforms are short, then it really doesn't matter where you stand or what color the cars are painted. The train requires two (or more) spots because not all of the cars where passengers will be boarding or alighting can fit with the doors on the platform. Usually (except for trains like the Builder or Lake Shore with sleepers at both ends) the double spots are one spot for sleepers, one for coaches. So, in your scenario, all the red cars will still spot/load at once, then all the blue cars. There's nothing a passenger (or the crew, for that matter) can do to change that, even if they knew exactly which car they were boarding.

I doubt you'd be able to see a red or blue car coming from a mile away (certainly not literally, and realistically, not even figuratively either). Unless there's a curve just beyond the platform, one really can't see what cars are on the train until it gets right up on the platform. Even if you could, you wouldn't know where the door was going to be because it's up to the conductor and engineer to spot the train.
Again, from my experience, the train usually pulls up and the first section is boarded. Then, it pulls forward a little more and boards the second spot. So, you know that if your cars are hanging off the back of the platform, it must not be for you.

Perhaps my experiences are unusual, but I've seen the following happen many times on the CL:

1) The train pulls up to the platform to board the forward sleepers first. Since the sleepers are towards the front, the sleeper is towards the left of the platform. All the passengers have been milling about in the middle of the platform.

2) The SCA of ONE sleeping car opens his or her door. Since it's the only open door on the train, about half the people on the platform head for the open door. The SCA tries to shout that this is for SLEEPERS only, and that coach pax will board in a minute. He or she often calls out my name, & the name of another sleeper pax if there happens to be one. People try to board anyway, and mill about in confusion.

3) I board the car. The train pulls forward just enough to get the coach cars onto the far right side of the platform.

4) Half the passengers were already headed that way, but the confused Amtrak newbies are still way at the left end of the platform. We wait while they walk all the way to the other end and board the coach cars at the rear.

I think some of the confusion would be cleared up by making the train cars more clearly marked. It doesn't have to be color coded or confusing - a big "COACH CAR" or "SLEEPING CAR" written across the middle - in ANY color - would be helpful.

Most people don't know their train number, their car number, or even the name of the train that they're supposed to be on. All they know is the departure time and the city they're headed to, and they know what "class" they're in. Airports work pretty much the same way - most people know that they're on the 7:30 United flight to Chicago, and you can pretty much find it from there.

Oh, and my proportions can be off by a lot if one of the trains is late. The CL often arrives after the LSL's departure time. When that happens, the combined LSL and CL crowds both try to get on the CL, and there's much confusion and consternation by the LSL passengers who don't understand why they're not being allowed on the train. Considering that the CL uses Superliners and the LSL uses Viewliners, it shows you how little the general public knows or cares about rolling stock, consists, train numbers, or anything.
 
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2) Perhaps I board in strange spots (small, unstaffed stations along the LSL/CL route through the midwest), but
D.P.: OK, you're implying that you usually board at one of a fairly select list of stations -- the unstaffed, shared LSL/CL, stations with short platforms. Now I'm curious which ones! This list is short:
Elkhart

Waterloo

Sandusky

Elyria

There has been serious talk of building a new set of platforms at Elyria, to move the station back to Elyria Union Station (though this project is dragging on like so many others). There's been somewhat-less-serious talk of moving the platforms at Waterloo to allow the trains to board without blocking the street crossings. I haven't heard anything about Sandusky or Elkhart.
 
2) Perhaps I board in strange spots (small, unstaffed stations along the LSL/CL route through the midwest), but
D.P.: OK, you're implying that you usually board at one of a fairly select list of stations -- the unstaffed, shared LSL/CL, stations with short platforms. Now I'm curious which ones! This list is short:
Elkhart

Waterloo

Sandusky

Elyria

There has been serious talk of building a new set of platforms at Elyria, to move the station back to Elyria Union Station (though this project is dragging on like so many others). There's been somewhat-less-serious talk of moving the platforms at Waterloo to allow the trains to board without blocking the street crossings. I haven't heard anything about Sandusky or Elkhart.
Waterloo, for the most part. But again, that's the only location where I've seen the double spotting, late-second-train problem. However, I have seen countless stations along the SWC and EB routes that are very small and lightly traveled. I do think that having clearly marked cars would make it easier on everyone who is unfamiliar with the consist - if you're waiting in a station building or in your car, you don't have to walk up and down the length of the train to check the car numbers, you can just SEE it wherever you are.

As to Waterloo itself - from what I heard, they were supposed to get a whole new platform and station (to replace the AmShack), but it sounds like those plans have fallen apart.
 
Wasn't the origin of the Waterloo station primarily a sop for folks in Fort Wayne who lost service when the Pennsy Fort Wayne Line was downgraded and the Broadway Limited was moved to the B&O line, also adding Garrett, IN to serve Fort Wayne. Of course the Broadway Limited and Garrett IN went bye bye, leaving just Waterloo around to serve Fort Wayne.
 
What accident was that Superliner Lounge in?
Don't know that it was in an accident. Picture was taken at Beech Grove shops and it could have been in for maintenance.
#33036 was in a derailment in Kingman AZ in 8/97, underwent a $1.366 million repair (TIGER) and was back on line 8/10
 
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