AMTRAK and Real IDs

[Devil's Advocate]

You absolutely need and government issued ID with a name and birthdate that matches your air ticket to board a domestic flight.

That is a myth. You do not need a valid government ID to fly in the US and I know this because I've done it. You do have to provide enough personal information for the TSA to look you up and find you, but you do not need a physical document. It's basically the same as getting S4 on your ticket.

 

[Amtrak25]

It can be used for domestic flights. But not for international flights.
View attachment 38834

"International" flight means Canada too ?

 

[alpha3]

That is a myth. You do not need a valid government ID to fly in the US and I know this because I've done it. You do have to provide enough personal information for the TSA to look you up and find you, but you do not need a physical document. It's basically the same as getting S4 on your ticket.

Devils advocate, that is 100% correct. Retired airline employee here.

 

[jis]

It can be used for domestic flights. But not for international flights.
View attachment 38834

Yes it can be used for TSA for domestic or international flights, but cannot be used for border crossing (i.e. CBP barrier crossing) when traveling by air.

Then again there are other ways to pass through TSA. I have done it. Specially if you have TSA Pre on your boarding pass (and even otherwise) a Supervisor can authorise you to pass through normal channel (no SSSS) if you can provide certain other proof of identity that s/he asks for. For me that time my SS Number and Passport number did the trick. I have both numbers memorised for exactly such contingencies. Of course the TSA Pre on the boarding pass is proof that I have a Trusted Traveler Number too. But the issue is of matching that with photo or biometrics.

 

[jis]

"International" flight means Canada too ?

Yes. At least until it becomes the 51st State

 

[zephyr17]

"International" flight means Canada too ?

Canada, being a sovereign nation independent of the US, yes, flying to Canada is flying internationally.

DHS issued Trusted Traveler program cards, such as NEXUS or Global Entry, are also Real ID. I've used my NEXUS card for TSA for years. It stays in my wallet and is easier to pull out than my DL.

Also, a few states' regular driver's licenses are not and will never be Real ID. Washington has made a positive decision to not comply with Real ID requirements and our regular licenses already have "Federal Restrictions Apply" printed on them. Washington also issues Enhanced Driver's Licenses/State IDs which are Real ID compliant because of the documentation required to prove citizenship. I haven't bothered to get an EDL because I'll just keep using my NEXUS for TSA.

 

[PVD]

Here in NY State they have the Enhanced ID, which is supposed to be Real ID compliant.

yes, Enhanced is Real ID compliant. That is what I carry.

That is a myth. You do not need a valid government ID to fly in the US and I know this because I've done it. You do have to provide enough personal information for the TSA to look you up and find you, but you do not need a physical document. It's basically the same as getting S4 on your ticket.

Yes but the time they take to verify your identity, is an invitation to missing your flight.

 

[zephyr17]

Yes but the time they take to verify your identity, is an invitation to missing your flight.

Since you presumably know you don't have it, you can compensate by arriving at the airport early enough to allow for that.

 

[PVD]

I don't understand you making this statement. You absolutely need and government issued ID with a name and birthdate that matches your air ticket to board a domestic flight.

And Real ID will change that because a DL without Real ID will not be accepted to board a flight or enter certain federal facilities.

The rule is related to proof of identity. The real ID DL merely raises the standard a DMV must use for the drivers license to be accepted as a valid ID by the TSA. If time is on your side you can show up without id and when they are satisfied they have verified your ID you will be cleared. It can take a while, they don't rush.

 

[alanh]

You can technically fly without ID, but you'll still need to verify your identity. They don't say how they do it, but it's probably like Experian's identity checking where they ask you information only you would probably know, like if a particular address was an old address of yours or not. You'll also get a pat down.

This is normally just for lost or stolen IDs. If you say you don't have an ID because you're sticking it to the Man you'll have a harder time.

 

[jis]

Yes but the time they take to verify your identity, is an invitation to missing your flight.

In my case it took 15 mins most of which was finding the Supervisor. Once he showed up it took just a few mins.

In my case that time I had inadvertently packed my id in checked baggage.

 

[BCL]

Canada, being a sovereign nation independent of the US, yes, flying to Canada is flying internationally.

DHS issued Trusted Traveler program cards, such as NEXUS or Global Entry, are also Real ID. I've used my NEXUS card for TSA for years. It stays in my wallet and is easier to pull out than my DL.

Also, a few states' regular driver's licenses are not and will never be Real ID. Washington has made a positive decision to not comply with Real ID requirements and our regular licenses already have "Federal Restrictions Apply" printed on them. Washington also issues Enhanced Driver's Licenses/State IDs which are Real ID compliant because of the documentation required to prove citizenship. I haven't bothered to get an EDL because I'll just keep using my NEXUS for TSA.

Technically, Real ID only refers to specific documents, namely driver licenses and non driver license ID cards. Passports specifically aren't considered Real ID. DHS calls a passport (and other IDs) an "alternative acceptable document". I'd point out that foreign passports are considered an acceptable document.

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs​

Beginning May 7, 2025 every state and territory resident will need to present a REAL ID compliant license/ID, or another acceptable form of identification, for accessing federal facilities, entering nuclear power plants, and boarding commercial aircraft. The card, itself, must be REAL ID compliant unless the resident is using an alternative acceptable document such as a passport or passport card, or state-issued Enhanced Driver’s License. The Act does not require individuals to present identification where it is not currently required to access a federal facility (such as to enter the public areas of the Smithsonian) nor does it prohibit an agency from accepting other forms of identity documents (such as a U.S. passport or passport card).​

The issue with an Enhanced DL/ID is that they can only be issued to US citizens/nationals (won't go into the whole thing about noncitizen US nationality). But Real ID can be issued to permanent residents or even those with temporary visa status (H-1B, student visas, etc.). I understand for temporary visa status, the expiration date of the Real ID document will be (at the latest) the date that the status expires, although it could expire before that.

 

[BCL]

yes, Enhanced is Real ID compliant. That is what I carry.

Technically it's not "Real ID compliant", but an "acceptable alternative". Real ID only applies to driver licenses and state IDs, and specifically excludes enhanced DL/ID. The definitions are kind of weird. But the requirements for enhanced DL/ID may not be the same as for Real ID. I remember when I got a renewal and wanted Real ID, I had to bring two forms of proof of residence, even though I had gotten my driver license for years sent to the same address.

I had a change of address for my last driver license, but they didn't ask to see any proof of residence (which I had brought in) in order to renew a Real ID driver license. I thought that was bizarre. They made such a point about initial proof of residence but afterwards they don't seem to care if someone moves.

 

[jis]

Speaking of identity related credentials I came across this interesting article Wired Magazine …

https://apple.news/Ae6CjPTDuRxC_kN0J-R3a1w

 

[PRR 60]

I have not been asked to produce ID on Amtrak in at least 20 years. I'm not saying it does not happen, but it must be pretty rare.

 

[BCL]

I have not been asked to produce ID on Amtrak in at least 20 years. I'm not saying it does not happen, but it must be pretty rare.

The only purpose Amtrak would have would be to ensure that the passenger has the same name on the ticket. I doubt they go through anything like scanning ID or checking anyone against a database. For the most part I don’t think they really care other than making sure that each passenger has a ticket.

 

[zephyr17]

The only purpose Amtrak would have would be to ensure that the passenger has the same name on the ticket. I doubt they go through anything like scanning ID or checking anyone against a database. For the most part I don’t think they really care other than making sure that each passenger has a ticket.

They do random checks. The prompt to do a check appears on the conductor's device upon ticket scan. If your scan triggers such a random check, you better have ID or you may be getting off at the next stop.

With that said, those system generated random checks are pretty infrequent. Since the advent of etickets, when this system was implemented, I've only gotten an ID check once.

Conductors generally do not do ID checks unless prompted to do so by their device.

 

[MARC Rider]

The only purpose Amtrak would have would be to ensure that the passenger has the same name on the ticket. I doubt they go through anything like scanning ID or checking anyone against a database. For the most part I don’t think they really care other than making sure that each passenger has a ticket.

I don't think TSA at the airports scans the Real ID or equivalent and checks against a database. If you're doing a cross border ride on Amtrak, they ask for your passport number. Presumably they send passenger manifests to CBSA and CBP who can see if there are any problem.

 

[BCL]

I don't think TSA at the airports scans the Real ID or equivalent and checks against a database. If you're doing a cross border ride on Amtrak, they ask for your passport number. Presumably they send passenger manifests to CBSA and CBP who can see if there are any problem.

At the very least I've had my ID placed in a small flatbed scanner. They don't say anything about maybe checking something like a database of known fugitives. I could imagine it being used to prevent people barred (by court order) from leaving the US from doing so.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/credential-authentication-technology​

CAT is linked electronically to the Secure Flight database, which confirms travelers’ flight details, ensuring they are ticketed for travel that day. CAT also displays the pre-screening status (such as TSA PreCheck®) the traveler is eligible for, all without a boarding pass. However, CAT does not eliminate the requirement for passengers to check-in with their airline. Passengers still need their boarding pass to show the airline representative at their gate before boarding their flight.​

I'm darn sure that Amtrak isn't going to be doing anything like this.

 

[MARC Rider]

At the very least I've had my ID placed in a small flatbed scanner. They don't say anything about maybe checking something like a database of known fugitives. I could imagine it being used to prevent people barred (by court order) from leaving the US from doing so.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/credential-authentication-technology​

CAT is linked electronically to the Secure Flight database, which confirms travelers’ flight details, ensuring they are ticketed for travel that day. CAT also displays the pre-screening status (such as TSA PreCheck®) the traveler is eligible for, all without a boarding pass. However, CAT does not eliminate the requirement for passengers to check-in with their airline. Passengers still need their boarding pass to show the airline representative at their gate before boarding their flight.​

I'm darn sure that Amtrak isn't going to be doing anything like this.

This must be new. The last time I flew was 2 Years ago, and all the TSA guy did before I got in the security line was eyeball it to see if I sort of looked like the picture in my ID.

 

[zephyr17]

I'm darn sure that Amtrak isn't going to be doing anything like this.

The one time I got flagged on the random ID check, all the conductor did was eyeball it.

Full disclosure, I am only talking about normal ticket checks. When I go to Canada, the conductor always checks ID. Though that's just with the Mark I Eyeball, too.

 

[BCL]

This must be new. The last time I flew was 2 Years ago, and all the TSA guy did before I got in the security line was eyeball it to see if I sort of looked like the picture in my ID.

About the same for me. I do remember different setups at different airports. One thing I do remember clearly was a blacklight flashlight that the agent would shine on the ID. I guess that makes it easier to check for certain security features on some IDs that glow in UV.

I don't think I've seen it, but there's been a scanner that mechanically swallows credit-card sized IDs (ATM style) since at least 2020 that's been used at some airports. I think the machine I remember is here in this video at 20 seconds in.



I looked it up (the model name is visible), and that's a Penta scanner from the German company Desko. It's supposed to do stuff like optical character recognition as well as ID authentication.

https://www.desko.com/en/products/overview/desko-penta-scanner/

I just hope Amtrak never gets to this point. The only time I've ever even needed to queue up for anything at an Amtrak station was for the ticket window or at NYP. If they had a security line, I don't think I'd like it. I have traveled in Asia where there were metal detectors at train and bus stations. I don't recall ever being checked for ID though. I do remember traveling in China on vacation once where we hired a taxi to take us somewhere and (I kid you not) there was a checkpoint entering a city. I didn't fully understand what was happening, but I think the gist was that this guy looked at US passports and said something to the effect of "What am I supposed to do with an American passport" and just waved us through.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The last time I flew was 2 Years ago, and all the TSA guy did before I got in the security line was eyeball it to see if I sort of looked like the picture in my ID.

Where I fly the TSA takes a picture of your face and your ID so a computer can compare them to each other and who knows what else. In theory it's voluntary and all images are deleted (except for "testing"). From a practical standpoint unless you are extra observant by the time someone realizes their face is about to be scanned it has probably already happened and whatever is actually done with that data is only a fine print edit away from being kept and shared forever.