Amtrak announces Siemens as preferred bidder for new equipment

[jis]

There are no Cafe/Coaches anywhere in the current order so far.

 

[west point]

This quick turning of Amtrak trains will never happen. How will it ever clean the cars quickly? Could not find it but watching JR turn their trains was a dance in beauty. ,It is a slow clean or by the end of the day Amtrak cars would be filthy.

 

[Mailliw]

I'm assuming Amtrak will go with fixed bidirectional seating for the NER trainsets like VIA does. I don't see them wanting to have crews to physically turn seats around at termini. Hopefully they'll take the opportunity to increase club seating with tables.

 

[Andrew]

Will Amtrak use Venture Coaches for The Springfield Shuttle?

 

[jis]

This quick turning of Amtrak trains will never happen. How will it ever clean the cars quickly? Could not find it but watching JR turn their trains was a dance in beauty. ,It is a slow clean or by the end of the day Amtrak cars would be filthy.

Since Brightline had no problem turning their trains in half an hour I don't see why Amtrak would be unable to turn them in around an hour. They already manage to do so with the Acelas for some turns in Washington DC. Basically it is just a question of how many people they assign to do the necessary work items and whether that is sufficient for the available time.

In any case merely not tying up tracks to pull the train out to a wye or a balloon track to turn it and then bring it back to the station in itself will be a huge saving in resource/facility use and higher paid staff use, not to mention tyoing up congested interlocking tracks at the throat of the station..

And yes, there will not be any seats to turn AFAICT. It will just be toilets and trash. And if a train is used for say one and a half round trip between Washington and Boston, one may not even need to do a honey wagon dump before it goes back to the yard at the end of the day.

 

[Cal]

Surfliners are turned in 30 minutes, even after an 8 hour ride.

 

[west point]

I have to wonder if WASH , NYP and BOS have trackside potable water and sewer connections for quicker turnings.

 

[OBS]

I have to wonder if WASH , NYP and BOS have trackside potable water and sewer connections for quicker turnings.

Only a few tracks in Wash. DC..... NYP used to but were closed/removed to save costs. Bos has nothing in the station.

 

[Andrew]

Would using diesel--catenary Charger locomotives with the new Venture coaches likely be cheaper to operate than running Venture coaches and switching locomotives?

 

[JontyMort]

Would using diesel--catenary Charger locomotives with the new Venture coaches likely be cheaper to operate than running Venture coaches and switching locomotives?

I don’t think anyone has managed to produce an electro-diesel with enough power in diesel mode. Usually it is “last mile” stuff.

 

[jis]

I don’t think anyone has managed to produce an electro-diesel with enough power in diesel mode. Usually it is “last mile” stuff.

Ahem! I guess you are yet to run into NJ Transit's ALP45-DP then...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_ALP-45DP
Interestingly, the other Electro-diesel in the NY area, the MNRR and Amtrak P32ACDM, albeit third rail electric, is primarily a diesel engine which can sort of putter along in electric mode. Though theoretically they can run at upto 60mph, in reality they are run in electric mode as little as possible - essentially a few tunnel miles at the beginning or end of journey in New York. They can do 110moh in diesel mode.

 

[west point]

Third rail electric / diesels just pull too many amps at even 750 volts much less at 600 volts. 12 Kv much less amps and that is why they work but 3rd rail does not.

 

[JontyMort]

Ahem! I guess you are yet to run into NJ Transit's ALP45-DP then...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_ALP-45DP
Interestingly, the other Electro-diesel in the NY area, the MNRR and Amtrak P32ACDM, albeit third rail electric, is primarily a diesel engine which can sort of putter along in electric mode. Though theoretically they can run at upto 60mph, in reality they are run in electric mode as little as possible - essentially a few tunnel miles at the beginning or end of journey in New York. They can do 110moh in diesel mode.

Yes, that is the other way round from what one might expect - as you suggest, it’s the electric mode that is “last mile”. The third-rail electro-diesels in the UK were quite powerful on the juice - 2,500 hp - but only 750 hp on the generator.

 

[JontyMort]

Third rail electric / diesels just pull too many amps at even 750 volts much less at 600 volts. 12 Kv much less amps and that is why they work but 3rd rail does not.

It doesn’t happen any more - thank goodness - but before the high speed line from London to the Channel Tunnel was built the Eurostars were on DC in England. If there was any serious attempt at power draw you could almost see the third rail melting. This was particularly so on the secondary route via Maidstone, where there was a nasty climb out of Ashford at somewhere between 1% and 2%.

 

[user 14106]

Some details were recently made available on how they’re currently thinking of implementing the dual mode power. It sounds like the current course of design is towards a modified Charger providing the propulsion at one end and a coach cab car on the opposite end (with the front end/cab designed to mirror the cab of the Charger). It sounds like the current thought is for a business/auxiliary power car to be on the locomotive end and the locomotive facing end of this car will act as an electric power supply for the Charger. Looks like they’re currently considering having both the pantograph for NEC operations and batteries in this power compartment so possibly just one standard version of the trainset for both the NEC and Empire Service but of course still early that could still change. So when running on the NEC, power collected from the catenary on the business car would then be directed via bus bars to the Charger locomotive. Then instead of an engine change at Washington or New Haven you simply fire up the diesel prime mover in the Charger and lower the pantograph. Big benefit will be allowing the Pennsylvanian to operate electric between Philly and Harrisburg.

 

[joelkfla]

Some details were recently made available on how they’re currently thinking of implementing the dual mode power. It sounds like the current course of design is towards a modified Charger providing the propulsion at one end and a coach cab car on the opposite end (with the front end/cab designed to mirror the cab of the Charger). It sounds like the current thought is for a business/auxiliary power car to be on the locomotive end and the locomotive facing end of this car will act as an electric power supply for the Charger. Looks like they’re currently considering having both the pantograph for NEC operations and batteries in this power compartment so possibly just one standard version of the trainset for both the NEC and Empire Service but of course still early that could still change. So when running on the NEC, power collected from the catenary on the business car would then be directed via bus bars to the Charger locomotive. Then instead of an engine change at Washington or New Haven you simply fire up the diesel prime mover in the Charger and lower the pantograph. Big benefit will be allowing the Pennsylvanian to operate electric between Philly and Harrisburg.

Is this a common arrangement in some parts of the world? To wit, having a power car supply electricity to a diesel-electric's traction motors, bypassing the diesel? Or is it breaking new ground?

 

[west point]

Is this a common arrangement in some parts of the world? To wit, having a power car supply electricity to a diesel-electric's traction motors, bypassing the diesel? Or is it breaking new ground?

Many countries use 1 CAT PAN to provide power to several cars by a power bus the whole length of train. Each car has equipment to operate their own traction motors (inverters). That keeps the lead cars to only have same weight on tracks as rest of train. Power is supplied by a common bus. FRA does not allow that on trains at present Multiple powered cars only way it would work in USA is have each pair of cars with pan. HSR has problems with wire harmonics with multiple PANS.

 

[jis]

Many countries use 1 CAT PAN to provide power to several cars by a power bus the whole length of train. Each car has equipment to operate their own traction motors (inverters). That keeps the lead cars to only have same weight on tracks as rest of train. Power is supplied by a common bus. FRA does not allow that on trains at present Multiple powered cars only way it would work in USA is have each pair of cars with pan. HSR has problems with wire harmonics with multiple PANS.

FRA allows a power bus spanning the train if it is articulated. That is how the Acela 21s are set up.

 

[Andrew]

Some details were recently made available on how they’re currently thinking of implementing the dual mode power. It sounds like the current course of design is towards a modified Charger providing the propulsion at one end and a coach cab car on the opposite end (with the front end/cab designed to mirror the cab of the Charger). It sounds like the current thought is for a business/auxiliary power car to be on the locomotive end and the locomotive facing end of this car will act as an electric power supply for the Charger. Looks like they’re currently considering having both the pantograph for NEC operations and batteries in this power compartment so possibly just one standard version of the trainset for both the NEC and Empire Service but of course still early that could still change. So when running on the NEC, power collected from the catenary on the business car would then be directed via bus bars to the Charger locomotive. Then instead of an engine change at Washington or New Haven you simply fire up the diesel prime mover in the Charger and lower the pantograph. Big benefit will be allowing the Pennsylvanian to operate electric between Philly and Harrisburg.

So then the modified Charger locomotives will be diesel locomotives--instead of true dual-modes--such as NJ Transit's locomotives.

 

[user 14106]

The five year plans have a little more information - the business power car will indeed have an electrically powered truck in addition to relaying power to the locomotive’s traction motors. In electrified territories the two will work together to provide the desired acceleration while operating on the NEC.