Amtrak announces Siemens as preferred bidder for new equipment

[Mailliw]

Cool. I'm curious if Amtrak will go with cafe/coach cars or cafe/lounge cars for the NEC.

 

[jis]

Cool. I'm curious if Amtrak will go with cafe/coach cars or cafe/lounge cars for the NEC.

The food service car type is designated as Diner/Lounge.

 

[Andrew]

There are a few rumors floating around that predominantly the Amfleet I replacement will be 7 car sets with a cab car. Presumably they will be powered by existing and yet to be acquired locomotives/power heads at the opposite end from the cab car. Basically they will be Amrailjet sets.

Does that 7 car set include the proposed cab car or are you saying 7 car set in addition to a cab car? And would the Empire and Keystone trains also be 7 cars long?

I assume the acquired locomotives you are referring to are dual-mode locomotives?

 

[west point]

I assume the acquired locomotives you are referring to are dual-mode locomotives?

It is too early to know!

 

[jis]

Does that 7 car set include the proposed cab car or are you saying 7 car set in addition to a cab car? And would the Empire and Keystone trains also be 7 cars long?

7 cars includes the cab car for 70 sets of 7 cars = 490 cars. These are the primary NEC spine and extension trains.

I assume the acquired locomotives you are referring to are dual-mode locomotives?

They can use any locomotives, current or future. They could operate like today with ACS64s on the spine and then Chargers or P42s south of Washington DC, or some fancy catenary dual mode locomotives if they come to pass. Or current dual modes if used in Empire Service, though I suspect those may be from this other group of cars mentioned.

 

[Mailliw]

According to Siemens reference design the seating capacities are; economy coach 70, economy cab 62, first/business coach 50 (2:1 layout), and cafe/economy coach 44. I imagine state corridors would have smaller consists (for example Keystones don't have food service or business class).

 

[MARC Rider]

7 cars includes the cab car for 70 sets of 7 cars = 490 cars. These are the primary NEC spine and extension trains.

Before Covid shortened the consists, the typical Northeast Regional train had 8 cars. If they switch to 7 car trains, they're going to have reduced capacity, unless they run more frequent trains. Will they have the flexibility to run longer consists when traffic demands? (I'm thinking mainly of busy seasons, like Thanksgiving, but even during the normal rush hours, the Northeast Regionals can get crowded.)

 

[jis]

At first blush, it looks like the 7 car sets will be semi-permanently coupled with standard tight lock coupler only at one end of the Cab Car and the End Business/Economy Car. Each consist will have 3 Coaches, one Cab Coach and two Business/Economy cars as the revenue cars and the Diner/Lounge as the non-rev car.

I suspect they are shooting for more frequent service rather than longer trains. which I am all in favor of, if they can pull it off.

I am also wondering what they are thinking in terms of the soft product to be offered in the Diner/Lounge.

There are 8 sets for State service with 4 Coaches, 1 BC and 1 Diner Lounge each, with some cars in married pairs.

The Washington State sets are 5 in number with all cars with standard couplers 3 Coaches, 1 Cab Coach, 1 Business/Economy and one Diner/Lounge.

I can see this document from which I am reading these off. I am not sure how authentic this is. But it is what it is.

 

[Mailliw]

Thanks! More frequent service is always a better idea than longer trains.. I wonder what the rational is behind having 2 Business/Economy cars instead of a separate Business Class car and additional Economy car?

 

[jis]

Thanks! I wonder what the rational is behind having 2 Business/Economy cars instead of a separate Business Class car and additional Economy car?

That is just terminology. Business Economy as opposed to Business First I presume, as found on Brightline. My assumption is that Business Economy is probably 2x2 with some additional seat features and more leg room or some such. But it is Business Class. But please do realize, this is pretty much speculation. All I can see is a diagram with these terms on it, and I am guessing beyond that.

The semi permanently coupled I am getting from the coupler configuration identified as S for semi-permanent and H for AAR Type H tight-lock coupler.

There are 490 cars (70 sets of 7) designated Amtrak-NE, 48 (8 sets of 6) cars designated Amtrak for a total of 538 Amfleet I replacement, and then there are 30 cars (5 sets of 6) designated WSDOT.

 

[west point]

More trains? Just how is Amtrak going to squeezer more trains thru the North River tunnel bores? maybe cut NJT back ?

 

[jis]

More trains? Just how is Amtrak going to squeezer more trains thru the North River tunnel bores? maybe cut NJT back ?

That is relevant problem only in two 90 minute windows inbound in the morning and outbound in the afternoon. Rest of the day, not a problem at all. And within ten years it should be somewhat less of a problem, notwithstanding A interlocking congestion issues post new tunnels construction.

 

[Cal]

That is just terminology. Business Economy as opposed to Business First I presume, as found on Brightline. My assumption is that Business Economy is probably 2x2 with some additional seat features and more leg room or some such. But it is Business Class. But please do realize, this is pretty much speculation. All I can see is a diagram with these terms on it, and I am guessing beyond that.

The semi permanently coupled I am getting from the coupler configuration identified as S for semi-permanent and H for AAR Type H tight-lock coupler.

There are 490 cars (70 sets of 7) designated Amtrak-NE, 48 (8 sets of 6) cars designated Amtrak for a total of 538 Amfleet I replacement, and then there are 30 cars (5 sets of 6) designated WSDOT.

HOw many sets for Amtrak midwest?

Also, some of these sets might be for the new corridors that could possibly come.

Edited to say "midwest" and not simply west. Oops

 

[jis]

HOw many sets for Amtrak west?

Also, some of these sets might be for the new corridors that could possibly come.

Amtrak West? Other than Washington DOT none.

None designated for future corridors yet. These are for NEC and current state corridors who have chosen to lease equipment from Amtrak.

 

[Cal]

Amtrak West? Other than Washington DOT none.

None designated for future corridors yet. These are for NEC and current state corridors who have chosen to lease equipment from Amtrak.

Whoops, midwest*

 

[jis]

Whoops, midwest*

Nope. Midwest was a separate order that is mostly under production or delivered already, apparently undergoing some serious bug fixing now. This list is of order being finalized.

 

[JontyMort]

At first blush, it looks like the 7 car sets will be semi-permanently coupled with standard tight lock coupler only at one end of the Cab Car and the End Business/Economy Car. Each consist will have 3 Coaches, one Cab Coach and two Business/Economy cars as the revenue cars and the Diner/Lounge as the non-rev car.

I suspect they are shooting for more frequent service rather than longer trains. which I am all in favor of, if they can pull it off.

Presumably on the NEC push-pull working should produce shorter turn-round times - especially at Boston - but would also allow the Regionals to start from or terminate at New York if that were desirable (say in the early morning or late evening).

More frequent trains are good, but bring their own challenges - the more frequent the service, the greater the need to keep to time.

 

[jiml]

7 cars includes the cab car for 70 sets of 7 cars = 490 cars. These are the primary NEC spine and extension trains.

They can use any locomotives, current or future. They could operate like today with ACS64s on the spine and then Chargers or P42s south of Washington DC, or some fancy catenary dual mode locomotives if they come to pass. Or current dual modes if used in Empire Service, though I suspect those may be from this other group of cars mentioned.

The key takeaway I see is being able to obtain and use these coaches without having to make a decision on locomotive replacements - yet. The regional electrics aren't that old - heck, look how long the AEM7's lasted. Not having to commit to new motive power actually looks like a smart move in the short term for various reasons.

 

[JontyMort]

The key takeaway I see is being able to obtain and use these coaches without having to make a decision on locomotive replacements - yet. The regional electrics aren't that old - heck, look how long the AEM7's lasted. Not having to commit to new motive power actually looks like a smart move in the short term for various reasons.

The ACS-64s are indeed very young - scarcely shaken down, in fact. This method of operations works well. In the UK we have used it quite a lot over the years - London to Glasgow via the West Coast pre-2002 and London to Edinburgh via the East Coast until recently, both with electric locomotives. But in Britain it has never been done regularly with a traction change. A thought, maybe, might be for the NEC sets to have a cab car at *both* ends (we never did this in the UK, because they used Driving Van Trailers with no passengers). This has the potential to speed up operations at - say - New Haven. Arrive from New York with an electric on the front, stick the diesel on the back and remove the electric from the front *in parallel* - much quicker.

 

[Andrew]

At first blush, it looks like the 7 car sets will be semi-permanently coupled with standard tight lock coupler only at one end of the Cab Car and the End Business/Economy Car. Each consist will have 3 Coaches, one Cab Coach and two Business/Economy cars as the revenue cars and the Diner/Lounge as the non-rev car.

I suspect they are shooting for more frequent service rather than longer trains. which I am all in favor of, if they can pull it off.

I am also wondering what they are thinking in terms of the soft product to be offered in the Diner/Lounge.

There are 8 sets for State service with 4 Coaches, 1 BC and 1 Diner Lounge each, with some cars in married pairs.

The Washington State sets are 5 in number with all cars with standard couplers 3 Coaches, 1 Cab Coach, 1 Business/Economy and one Diner/Lounge.

I can see this document from which I am reading these off. I am not sure how authentic this is. But it is what it is.

That is just terminology. Business Economy as opposed to Business First I presume, as found on Brightline. My assumption is that Business Economy is probably 2x2 with some additional seat features and more leg room or some such. But it is Business Class. But please do realize, this is pretty much speculation. All I can see is a diagram with these terms on it, and I am guessing beyond that.

The semi permanently coupled I am getting from the coupler configuration identified as S for semi-permanent and H for AAR Type H tight-lock coupler.

There are 490 cars (70 sets of 7) designated Amtrak-NE, 48 (8 sets of 6) cars designated Amtrak for a total of 538 Amfleet I replacement, and then there are 30 cars (5 sets of 6) designated WSDOT.

Can you please share the document where you got this information? So, I seem to think based on reading this information, that Keystone and Empire trains will be lengthened to seven Coaches from 5 cars.

Will the 8 sets of six Coaches go the Downeaster?

 

[Palmetto]

Amtrak engine #300, their new ACL42 has left the Siemens plant in Sacramento. It's to be taken east [on Amtrak #6, I assume].

 

[Andrew]

That is relevant problem only in two 90 minute windows inbound in the morning and outbound in the afternoon. Rest of the day, not a problem at all. And within ten years it should be somewhat less of a problem, notwithstanding A interlocking congestion issues post new tunnels construction.

What two 90 minutes time period are those? like 7:30 until 9 AM?

Also, if Amtrak does order 70 trainsets of 7 cars each, wouldn't that mean that the Empire and Kesystone trains receive cafe-cars?

 

[PVD]

Even if they are in the mix, that doesn't mean they will operate. Lots of NYS/Empire Service trains run NYP-ALB, and go no further. The split BC/cafe runs with the cafe closed.

 

[jis]

Even if they are in the mix, that doesn't mean they will operate. Lots of NYS/Empire Service trains run NYP-ALB, and go no further. The split BC/cafe runs with the cafe closed.

That is true, and that may very well be the case on the sets ordered for State services in NY State.

But it would be completely remarkable if there is never any soft product offered in the Diner/Lounge car on any of the 70 sets on any routes ever!

 

[Mailliw]

Ordering brand new cafe cars for routes they won't operate on is asinine even for Amtrak. Cafe service is/was in the planning stages for the Empire Service, but the Keystone Service would be luck to get vending machines. I assume most state corridors that have food service would go with cafe/coaches, maybe with trains like Carolinian, Pennsylvanian, etc getting the cafe/lounge cars.