Amtrak announces Siemens as preferred bidder for new equipment

[jis]

It says dual power, not dual-mode, for what it's worth. I think this still could end up being a charger on one end and a ACS64 on the other.

Indeed! There are so many ways to skin the cat that has been specified so far

 

[frequentflyer]

What? Siemens won? But, but Stadler.

Dual mode trainsets will probably mean a diesel on one end and an Electric on the other. The Venture coaches should be cheaper with the states putting in a big order before Amtrak. I don't believe I am going to say this but "smart move" Amtrak letting the states order the cars first in mass to get a better deal on their cars.

 

[jis]

A very significant question is what will happen to PVs in the areas served only by train sets? Maybe Amtrak will allow pickup drop off of cars from LD trains at more locations to compensate? Assuming of course that it is difficult to attach stray cars to train sets. @Seaboard92 ? Any thoughts on the matter?

 

[Cal]

Dual mode trainsets will probably mean a diesel on one end and an Electric on the other.

However diesel can't get into NYP...

 

[jis]

However diesel can't get into NYP...

They can. They just require a bit of special dispensation, and of course if the prime mover is simply turned off then even that is not necessary. NJT ALP45-DPs and LIRR DMs get into Penn Station all the time.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Yes they need dual modes, it is actually also possible that they'd simply use catenary dual mode, coming to think of it.

Just to highlight NYS could run trains into NYC using the overhead catenary. The overhead wires and the third rail are extended to the same area. Which I would think would be a preferred solution. Sure would be safer if you could remove all the third rail inside the Amtrak section of NYC. Not going to happen on the Long Island Railroad section, but should be a long term goal.

 

[jis]

Just to highlight NYS could run trains into NYC using the overhead catenary. The overhead wires and the third rail are extended to the same area. Which I would think would be a preferred solution. Sure would be safer if you could remove all the third rail inside the Amtrak section of NYC. Not going to happen on the Long Island Railroad section, but should be a long term goal.

I am wondering whether the catenary dual mode will be able to change power on the fly or if they will have to be stationary when the change happens like is required for ALP45-DPs. I think changing on the fly would be much preferred even if it takes extending the catenary a little further on the Empire Connection.

Changing on the fly would not be of much relevance for trains headed south of Washington DC though, sicne all of them will stop at Washington Union Station, or for the Pennsylvanian, which will stop[ at Harrisburg.

 

[frequentflyer]

However diesel can't get into NYP...

The diesel does not have to be running.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I am wondering whether the catenary dual mode will be able to change power on the fly or if they will have to be stationary when the change happens like is required for ALP45-DPs. I think changing on the fly would be much preferred even if it takes extending the catenary a little further on the Empire Connection.

Changing on the fly would not be of much relevance for trains headed south of Washington DC though, sicne all of them will stop at Washington Union Station, or for the Pennsylvanian, which will stop[ at Harrisburg.

Cost vs Time

Let’s stay with the simplest solution and have the train stop while change modes. Unless it proven technology someplace else? The K.I.S.S. rule is in effect.

 

[PVD]

They can. They just require a bit of special dispensation, and of course if the prime mover is simply turned off then even that is not necessary. NJT ALP45-DPs and LIRR DMs get into Penn Station all the time.

As do the Amtrak operated P-32DM that go up the Empire cut...

 

[railiner]

They can. They just require a bit of special dispensation, and of course if the prime mover is simply turned off then even that is not necessary. NJT ALP45-DPs and LIRR DMs get into Penn Station all the time.

Are the diesels actually shut down, or are they just idling? Seems to me, whenever I see them at NYP, they are idling. Either that, or they have very noisy blowers....

 

[Andrew]

What? Siemens won? But, but Stadler.

Dual mode trainsets will probably mean a diesel on one end and an Electric on the other. The Venture coaches should be cheaper with the states putting in a big order before Amtrak. I don't believe I am going to say this but "smart move" Amtrak letting the states order the cars first in mass to get a better deal on their cars.

Or a Sprinter with a dual-mode Charger?

 

[railiner]

The old dual powered equipment (FL-9's and Turboliner's seemed to often have trouble with their third rail equipment and would 'sneak' in and out using their diesel or turbine engines....

 

[jiml]

The old dual powered equipment (FL-9's and Turboliner's seemed to often have trouble with their third rail equipment and would 'sneak' in and out using their diesel or turbine engines....

Not much has changed. See the photo below at Croton-Harmon - not a P32 in sight.

 

[Seaboard92]

A very significant question is what will happen to PVs in the areas served only by train sets? Maybe Amtrak will allow pickup drop off of cars from LD trains at more locations to compensate? Assuming of course that it is difficult to attach stray cars to train sets. @Seaboard92 ? Any thoughts on the matter?

I don't think there would be an issue if they have a standard AAR Coupler on them. The Surfliners pull PVs on a regular basis with one direction the PV trailing the locomotive, and on the other way it trails the cab car.

PVs are a dying breed however.

It should be noted the only trains that are taking PVs that are likely to get replaced with new cars are these.

~Palmetto
------Savannah
------Washington (Weekends Only)
------New York Sunnyside (Stay with the consist as it's last in first out and they don't want to mess with it)

~Carolinian
-----Charlotte
-----Washington (Weekends Only)
-----New York Sunnyside

~Lincoln Service
-------Chicago
-------St. Louis

~Missouri River Runner
-------St. Louis
-------Kansas City

~Hiawatha
------Chicago
------Milwaukee

~Wolverine
-------Chicago
-------Pontiac

~Blue Water
-------Chicago
-------Port Huron

~Pere Marquette
------Chicago
------Grand Rapids

~Pacific Surfliner
------Los Angeles
------San Diego

~Vermonter
-----Washington (Weekends Only)
-----New Haven
-----St. Albans

~New York State Trains
------New York Sunnyside
------Albany if the locomotive changes
------Niagara Falls
------Toronto
------Montreal
------Rutland

~Pennsylvania Trains
-------New York Sunnyside
-------Philadelphia with the engine change
-------Harrisburg (Select Keystones only)
-------Pittsburgh

~Northeast Regional
------Roanoke (Stay with the consist)
------Norfolk (Stay with the consist)
------Newport News
------Richmond (Originating/Terminating Only)
------Washington (Weekends Only)
------New York Sunnyside (Originating/Terminating Only, even though usually they stick these on the LD trains)
------New Haven (With Locomotive Change)
------Boston South Station

Most of these I don't think will be a problem to be honest. PVs are required to have Rubbers to protect the Amtrak cars from passages crumpling when coupled to us. It also helps protect ours from Superliners. As long as the trains continue to meet normal mechanical spec we should be alright.

 

[Cal]

So is the Surfliner getting these new cars? They are replacing Amfleets right, or also the California cars

 

[PVD]

Not much has changed. See the photo below at Croton-Harmon - not a P32 in sight.

View attachment 21849

can't be that recent, hasn't been a heritage bag in a while

 

[jiml]

can't be that recent, hasn't been a heritage bag in a while

Arbitrary choice of illustration. Just confirming @railiner post that non-electric engines do run into Penn.

 

[Seaboard92]

can't be that recent, hasn't been a heritage bag in a while

I would say it was before 2006 as there is a Pacific or a Pine series in there as well. My Pacific was retired in 2006 along with the rest of the fleet.

 

[rickycourtney]

So is the Surfliner getting these new cars? They are replacing Amfleets right, or also the California cars

No. Replacing Amfleet I cars only. Surfliner will continue to use the California Cars/Superliner railcars.

 

[Cal]

No. Replacing Amfleet I cars only. Surfliner will continue to use the California Cars/Superliner railcars.

That's what I thought. Personally, I love our California Cars, don't get rid of them!

 

[MARC Rider]

They can. They just require a bit of special dispensation, and of course if the prime mover is simply turned off then even that is not necessary. NJT ALP45-DPs and LIRR DMs get into Penn Station all the time.

Will the fact that these new diesels will be Tier-IV compliant make any difference?

 

[Gemuser]

Cost vs Time

Let’s stay with the simplest solution and have the train stop while change modes. Unless it proven technology someplace else? The K.I.S.S. rule is in effect.

Voltage change "on the fly" proven technology?!?!
The French TGV system depends on changing voltage. Most [all?] Paris stations are electrified at 1,500V DC, the actual LGV [the specially built TGV tracks] are all 25,000 V 50 Hz AC systems and at some of the outer ends [espically on internationl services] they change to the local voltage.
Example: Paris - Lausanne TGV. 7 trains daily. 1500V DC Gare de Lyon to LGV start point. 25,000V 50Hz, AC to Vallorbe Switzerland, 15,000V 16.66Hz AC to Lausanne. If the rumored extention to Milan happens it will be the Swiss system to Brig, then 3,000V DC to Milan.
This is just one example, I think it's reasonable to call it proven technology.

 

[jis]

Will the fact that these new diesels will be Tier-IV compliant make any difference?

ALP45-DPs are Tier IV compliant.

 

[jis]

Are the diesels actually shut down, or are they just idling? Seems to me, whenever I see them at NYP, they are idling. Either that, or they have very noisy blowers....

ALP45s are shut down in E-mode. P32ACDMs are sometimes idling.