Amtrak asks a passenger to move ...

[Thirdrail7]

Ms. Ifill said that the reason given was that "people were coming" and no one came. When you say the attendant "comes up with" a mother and child, were they with her? Or already on board? If not how does this square? If it was that they were getting on shortly, what is the point of moving someone getting off at the next stop? Just trying to understand.

As it was explained, they were already on the train and looking for seats together. Having set up the car, she knew where you think you can lead them to. Additionally, more multiples were manifested but it didn't matter since she clearly wasn't moving. As for the conductor, he stated he didn't know anything about it until Baltimore although one tweet says she talked the conductor on the train but then called over to the conductor in Baltimore. At any rate, she seemed to think she was talking to a conductor all along.

I also wonder why the attendant wasn't more explicit, or even the lead conductor, in saying "a mother and child need to sit together?" I think this all would have been avoided if that had happened (although, yes, we have only really heard one side of the story).

It may have been avoided, it may not have been avoided but it should have been communicated better.

And when she tweeted about being on the NEC but it being 80 I knew so many of the responses on Twitter were going to be, "this has never happened to me!" because most NEC passengers have no idea how things are run on LD trains. What you've said underlines this and what a lot of us in this and the other thread were saying about how this vague policy leads to inconsistencies and frustration.

Particularly since they also left out the Palmetto but we'll save that confusion for the other thread.

 

[Bex]

As it was explained, they were already on the train and looking for seats together. Having set up the car, she knew where you think you can lead them to. Additionally, more multiples were manifested but it didn't matter since she clearly wasn't moving. As for the conductor, he stated he didn't know anything about it until Baltimore although one tweet says she talked the conductor on the train but then called over to the conductor in Baltimore. At any rate, she seemed to think she was talking to a conductor all along.

That makes sense and answers a lot of the questions I've had, thanks.

 

[Steve4031]

Thirdrail, thank you for your explanation of what probably happened. As a rail fan I should have known that 80 was not a regional. Even though I ride it twice I did not remember the attendants working for the state of North Carolina.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Thirdrail, thank you for your explanation of what probably happened. As a rail fan I should have known that 80 was not a regional. Even though I ride it twice I did not remember the attendants working for the state of North Carolina.

I don’t think it’s “what probably happened” but is “what happened”. TR7 tends to have inside info. [emoji57]

 

[Bex]

I don’t think it’s “what probably happened” but is “what happened”. TR7 tends to have inside info. [emoji57]

Well, it's partially a she said/she said situation so you can't really go on that. Ifill says the "agent/conductor" told her that "other people were coming" and later said "she wanted to keep empty seats at the front.” That doesn't jibe with the mother/child story. I know which story is more logical, and that's Amtrak's, but that doesn't mean it's the only one.

 

[Steve4031]

I don’t think it’s “what probably happened” but is “what happened”. TR7 tends to have inside info. [emoji57]

I certainly had no intention of discrediting third rail’s description of how things operate on 80. I enjoy his list because they are accurate and informative.

 

[MARC Rider]

This woman was the head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund? She should know better than to escalate this to a Twitter war (G-d, how I hate Twitter!) without talking to the higher ups at Amtrak first. I'm sure with her position, they'd listen to her. Not sure what they could do except give her an e-voucher and a groveling apology.

Furthermore, although I can believe that she may have been picked on because of her race or gender, that's going to be hard to prove unless the attendant/conductor spouted off dialogue reminiscent of Bull Connor at a civil rights march. There's something called "picking your fights," and it seems to me that this one isn't worth the fuss and bother (not to mention reducing public support for civil rights litigation because of the perceived triviality of the complaint.)

 

[Bex]

I love Twitter. For starters, it's a way of finding out why your train is delayed when Amtrak won't tell you, because NJT, SEPTA, MARC, or someone on the stalled train in front of you will.

And there was no "war." She complained on Twitter, as many of us do, and no one at Amtrak answered until the following day to say "we tried to reach her but couldn't," which is, I think we can all say, idiotic.

 

[Steve4031]

We all know that Amtrak has issues with inconsistent and irrational implementation of policies. We all know that at times some employees make their own policy as they see fit. This has been going on for years. We have discussed these issues for years. It’s really pathetic to suddenly say, “no, this never happens” because an African American person makes a complaint. The fact that she is a prominent civil rights lawyer may give Amtrak Management the kick in the tail it needs to get these rogue employees in line.

 

[juanee]

Hello Everyone. A few observations:

1. Those of us who travel frequently on Amtrak know that sometimes conductors group passengers together based on their destinations, and it looks like that was the case here. But... the explanation of "other people coming who she wants to give this seat." and "she wanted to keep empty seats at the front" was not sufficient for Sherrilyn. So, perhaps poor customer service on the conductors. Sometimes passengers want to know exactly why... such as "Why isn't our train moving?" or "Why is our train so late?".

2. Her complaint would have more weight it there actually was "assigned seating" on that train. (You know what I mean?)

3. She is President & Director-Counsel NAACP LDF, a lawyer, according to her twitter account. Her escalating comments on twitter, though unprofessional, are expected. She does this for a living. Her entire thought process is about discrimination, for example, her "This isn't 1950" comment. If you read her twitter, various other posts are about discrimination. That is why she feels she was discriminated against, although I don't think there was any malicious intent by the conductors, they may have been just firm in their instructions... but who knows , we were not there.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

Hello Everyone. A few observations:

1. Those of us who travel frequently on Amtrak know that sometimes conductors group passengers together based on their destinations, and it looks like that was the case here. But... the explanation of "other people coming who she wants to give this seat." and "she wanted to keep empty seats at the front" was not sufficient for Sherrilyn. So, perhaps poor customer service on the conductors. Sometimes passengers want to know exactly why... such as "Why isn't our train moving?" or "Why is our train so late?".

2. Her complaint would have more weight it there actually was "assigned seating" on that train. (You know what I mean?)

3. She is President & Director-Counsel NAACP LDF, a lawyer, according to her twitter account. Her escalating comments on twitter, though unprofessional, are expected. She does this for a living. Her entire thought process is about discrimination, for example, her "This isn't 1950" comment. If you read her twitter, various other posts are about discrimination. That is why she feels she was discriminated against, although I don't think there was any malicious intent by the conductors, they may have been just firm in their instructions... but who knows , we were not there.

Your third point is what I'd like to focus on:

Regardless of whether the conductor was right or wrong in this situation or whether Amtrak employees can be inconsistent in their enforcement of various Amtrak policies, I feel that this lady is wanting to make a "public opinion/relations example" of Amtrak given her position and her influence in civil rights circles.

That's the part that I have heartburn with.

 

[SarahZ]

Your third point is what I'd like to focus on:

Regardless of whether the conductor was right or wrong in this situation or whether Amtrak employees can be inconsistent in their enforcement of various Amtrak policies, I feel that this lady is wanting to make a "public opinion/relations example" of Amtrak given her position and her influence in civil rights circles.

That's the part that I have heartburn with.

Why? This is a great example of how Amtrak can improve their public relations via training/coaching better ways to explain why someone is being asked to move.

 

[MARC Rider]

1. Those of us who travel frequently on Amtrak know that sometimes conductors group passengers together based on their destinations, and it looks like that was the case here. But... the explanation of "other people coming who she wants to give this seat." and "she wanted to keep empty seats at the front" was not sufficient for Sherrilyn. So, perhaps poor customer service on the conductors. Sometimes passengers want to know exactly why... such as "Why isn't our train moving?" or "Why is our train so late?".

I''m going to take the side of the complainer, even if I think her Twitter escalation was unprofessional.

This was the northbound Carolinian. Once it leaves Washington, it's essentially just another Northeast Regional. There's no need to group passengers in cars by destination, because every station for the rest of the trip has high platforms, and all doors open. Perhaps a conductor or attendant wanted to reserve some seats for family groups, but they have a bunch of 4-seat clusters in each facing each other for that purpose. In any event, these hypothetical additional passengers weren't going to be getting on until Baltimore. And the person making the complaint was getting off in Baltimore! (The Carolinian runs non-stop between Washington and Baltimore.) The behavior of the front-line employees was totally unnecessary in this case. This isn't "discrimination," it's just poor management on the part of Amtrak.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I''m going to take the side of the complainer, even if I think her Twitter escalation was unprofessional.

This was the northbound Carolinian. Once it leaves Washington, it's essentially just another Northeast Regional. There's no need to group passengers in cars by destination, because every station for the rest of the trip has high platforms, and all doors open. Perhaps a conductor or attendant wanted to reserve some seats for family groups, but they have a bunch of 4-seat clusters in each facing each other for that purpose. In any event, these hypothetical additional passengers weren't going to be getting on until Baltimore. And the person making the complaint was getting off in Baltimore! (The Carolinian runs non-stop between Washington and Baltimore.) The behavior of the front-line employees was totally unnecessary in this case. This isn't "discrimination," it's just poor management on the part of Amtrak.

Do we know that the passengers she wanted to seat there were not already on the train and could not find 2 seats together?

 

[juanee]

I actually can relate to both (LookingGlassTie, SarahZ) of your comments, both for and against Mr. Sherrilyn twitter broadcast.

LookingGlassTie: If she would have complained in writing later on her professional 24lb watermarked business stationary to Amtrak, it would have certainly raised an eyebrow and received a formal response, without her having to broadcast herself on twitter (and the newspapers picking it up later), and even us writing about it here now on the forum.

SarahZ: I remember years ago on my long distance train (Sunset / Texas Eagle), Amtrak staff inconsistently would give or not give announcements what was going on if we were stopped somewhere or running behind schedule. There were a lot of complaints about this... and now, staff is a lot more consistent letting passenger know what is going on. So, happier passengers due to Amtrak's better training and improved service, and better public relations because Amtrak acknowledged the complaints from passengers by doing something about it.

 

[juanee]

I''m going to take the side of the complainer, even if I think her Twitter escalation was unprofessional.

This was the northbound Carolinian. Once it leaves Washington, it's essentially just another Northeast Regional. There's no need to group passengers in cars by destination, because every station for the rest of the trip has high platforms, and all doors open. Perhaps a conductor or attendant wanted to reserve some seats for family groups, but they have a bunch of 4-seat clusters in each facing each other for that purpose. In any event, these hypothetical additional passengers weren't going to be getting on until Baltimore. And the person making the complaint was getting off in Baltimore! (The Carolinian runs non-stop between Washington and Baltimore.) The behavior of the front-line employees was totally unnecessary in this case. This isn't "discrimination," it's just poor management on the part of Amtrak.

Yes, it was stated she was getting off at Baltimore, so yes, that is certainly in her favor.

I feel most of us here on the forum can relate to Amtrak staff sometimes not being the nicest when interacting with passengers.

 

[MARC Rider]

Do we know that the passengers she wanted to seat there were not already on the train and could not find 2 seats together?

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for that scenario. I can't tell you how many times I've r idden the Northest Regional with my family, and the three of us have to sit seperately. I've never thought of going to the conductor and having them evict other passengers so we can sit together. Anyway, the longest ride is only 3 hours, and you can usually find seats when people get off in Philly, so why bother the conductor?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for that scenario. I can't tell you how many times I've r idden the Northest Regional with my family, and the three of us have to sit seperately. I've never thought of going to the conductor and having them evict other passengers so we can sit together. Anyway, the longest ride is only 3 hours, and you can usually find seats when people get off in Philly, so why bother the conductor?

Exactly this.

My first time taking my mom on an Acela (which I was excited about taking her on and riding with her cause I’m a train geek ) we got on in DC and there were no seats together even in the same car when we boarded. So we waited until Philadelphia and changed seats.

 

[Samsbigtrip]

It's important to note that this was the Carolinian and that she got on at WAS and her stop was BAL. She says she had "just boarded" when asked to move. My assumption is that the conductor wanted to group everyone getting off at a certain stop or stops in the same place and just did a truly poor job of explaining herself. But we can't know.

ETA: her initial tweet came at 5:18pm and the train leaves WAS at 5:15pm.

I have not yet travelled on Amtrak (very excited about the Empire Builder Seattle to Chicago in May) but I can't imagine having everyone disembark from the same carriage at the same stop would be a good idea - carnage in fact!
Perhaps they wanted to keep the car free of passengers so they wouldn't have to clean it?
Don't bite me - I'm a beginner at this!

 

[Steve4031]

On the NEC all doors open so no need to group passengers by destination on trains traveling north from Washington DC. Trains traveling south from NYP to WAS and beyond usually require passengers to be seated in coaches by destination. Some of the stations south of Washington DC do not have platforms that accommodate the length of the train. Additionally these are low level platforms requiring manual operation by the crew.

The Empire Builder will have passengers grouped by destination. Some stations have short platforms and this makes it easier for the crew. The Empire Builder has a Seattle section and a Portland section. Passengers are seated according to their final destination. The Portland cars include the sightseer longe and all cars behind it.

In summary, there are a variety of conditions in the Amtrak system that legitimately make it easier for crews to arranges passenger seating by car.

IMHO once passengers are seated in the correct car there really is no legitimate reason to move passengers around except for keeping a minor with a guardian or a guardian with a disabled person.

 

[toddinde]

Unfortunately, I believe it happened. I also believe it was probably racism. However, I’m a white guy and I’ve been treated rudely on Amtrak although it’s much better now than it’s ever been. It goes to show you the importance of courtesy in customer service.

 

[Samsbigtrip]

[...]
The Empire Builder will have passengers grouped by destination. Some stations have short platforms and this makes it easier for the crew. The Empire Builder has a Seattle section and a Portland section. Passengers are seated according to their final destination. The Portland cars include the sightseer longe and all cars behind it.

In summary, there are a variety of conditions in the Amtrak system that legitimately make it easier for crews to arranges passenger seating by car.
[...]

Many thanks for that explanation Steve - that makes good sense. I've actually got a Roomette and travelling east from Seattle and hadn't realised that the sightseer lounge was on the Portland leg and we won't get it until Spokane - and they won't get a restaurant - as I understand it!
Can I sneak in a question - do people in sleeping cars usually wear night clothes? I hate sleeping in my clothes and wondered if I should bring a night-dress!
Best wishes
Sam

 

[SarahZ]

Can I sneak in a question - do people in sleeping cars usually wear night clothes? I hate sleeping in my clothes and wondered if I should bring a night-dress!
Best wishes
Sam

I wear pajamas in my sleeper. If I get up at night, I throw a sweatshirt on over my pajama top.

 

[Samsbigtrip]

I wear pajamas in my sleeper. If I get up at night, I throw a sweatshirt on over my pajama top.

Good plan! Many thanks

 

[Steve4031]

Many thanks for that explanation Steve - that makes good sense. I've actually got a Roomette and travelling east from Seattle and hadn't realised that the sightseer lounge was on the Portland leg and we won't get it until Spokane - and they won't get a restaurant - as I understand it!
Can I sneak in a question - do people in sleeping cars usually wear night clothes? I hate sleeping in my clothes and wondered if I should bring a night-dress!
Best wishes
Sam

I remove my belt and sleep in my street clothes. At home much more relaxed to share here. If I half to get up and go to the bathroom it’s a simple move. Sometimes I shower the night before. Then I’m relatively fresh to go in the morning.