Amtrak Derailment Philadelphia (5/12/2015)

[Eric S]

Two people in the cab isn't necessarily a fail-safe system either, though. I believe studies are inconclusive at best on this matter, with some showing a benefit and others suggesting that two people can lead to one distracting the other. Plenty of trains are operated safely all over the world with only one person in the cab.

EDIT: This wasn't intended as a retort to any specific claim here, just an observation.

 

[Ryan]

Death toll now at 8, they found another body in the car.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/8th-death-confirmed-in-philadelphia-amtrak-crash-derailment/722306/

 

[Eric S]

Given the condition of that first car, not surprising that another fatality occurred there. Hopefully the last though.

 

[Ryan]

Word all over FB (but no link yet) that Boardman announced limited service to resume Monday.

 

[jis]

Here you go:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AMTRAK_CRASH_THE_LATEST

That contains the announcement about service resumption.

 

[Ryan]

Thanks.

 

[Guestly]

So 188 departed PHL at 9:10p, exactly on time. Hit Zoo interlocking at 9:12p, 1 minute early, and the last report, Shore Tower at 9:20p, 2 minutes early.

So it wasn't late out of PHL like some reports claimed. It was at maximum 5 minutes late at any point from WAS, so no need to "make up time."

Also, it's worth noting its quite normal for trains to be a minute or two early through interlockings due to pad time in the schedule.

 

[Mary]

Machines break. (Remember Toyota's accelerating mishaps).

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Two people in the cab isn't necessarily a fail-safe system either, though. I believe studies are inconclusive at best on this matter, with some showing a benefit and others suggesting that two people can lead to one distracting the other. Plenty of trains are operated safely all over the world with only one person in the cab.

EDIT: This wasn't intended as a retort to any specific claim here, just an observation.

The pere marquette had 2 people in the cab and it still rear ended a freight in Chicago.

 

[Guest]

Two people in the cab isn't necessarily a fail-safe system either, though. I believe studies are inconclusive at best on this matter, with some showing a benefit and others suggesting that two people can lead to one distracting the other. Plenty of trains are operated safely all over the world with only one person in the cab.

EDIT: This wasn't intended as a retort to any specific claim here, just an observation.

There were two people in the freight cab in the Maryland NEC crash, were there not?

Guest

 

[Ryan]

Yes, both of whom were high.

 

[Guest-Thomas]

Has anyone thought the stopped Septa and Acela in the area could have played a part just in distracting the engineer? Hearing radio reports of stopped trains, passing a stopped train (rare on the corridor) and possibly being on the look out for flying debris would possibly cause distractions.

Just thinking about possibilities.

 

[MiRider]

im a member of another forum nyctf, and some members posted the image in the article of the engine and someone else noticed what they think looks to be bullet holes? are you seeing what looks like what they are too?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150514_Amtrak_Derailment__What_we_know.html

I see distinct points of impact from projectiles/bullets on the engine windshield in the link above.

If you look at this picture of the passenger window that was hit at about the same time, you'll see 3 distinct points of impact.

The window has circular damage patterns as seen when a bullet hits something.

We'll still haven't seen any pics of the damage to the windshield of the other engine that was hit.

I don't think these are unrelated incidents, I truly believe this is sabotage.

My theory:

Succession of projectiles (bullets) hit the windshield

Instinct is to duck - he ducks

Hits his head - he has 19 stitches on his head

He's momentarily unconscious and loses control

Comes to after the accident

I know that if someone shot multiple times at my windshield, I would naturally and instinctively duck.

I also doubt that I would be able to control my vehicle.

Unless those bullets/projectiles actually penetrated the window and they probably didn't, they are going to be somewhere outside.

From the Slate story about the passenger window: The conductor soon returned with a man who appeared to be a maintenance worker. He examined the glass and noted that the impact didn't break "the second layer."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/13/septa_projectile_two_philly_trains_suffered_window_damage_around_the_same.html

 

[quadrock]

The video at www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZy8W_DTag4 shows a cabview of the area where this accident took place. Skip to 29:19 for a view of the curve.

 

[afigg]

Turns out there is someone (outside Amtrak) who records all the data from Amtrak Track a Train. Washington Post Wonkblog: Map: Where and how Amtrak train 188 diverged from every other train traveling the same route. The #188 speed reports are shown in the red circles on the data map. The Track a Train reports are only roughly every 5 minutes, but #188 was a normal 58 mph approaching the curve NE of the North Philly station.

Follow the link to the Mapbox website. Shows the speed reports of all the NE Regional trains on the NEC and into Virginia. Cool.

 

[CHamilton]

Amtrak has posted information about alternative ways to get between PHL and NYP. http://ow.ly/MXs2z

 

[Ryan]

That's an amazing data visualization tool.

 

[Guest]

im a member of another forum nyctf, and some members posted the image in the article of the engine and someone else noticed what they think looks to be bullet holes? are you seeing what looks like what they are too?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20150514_Amtrak_Derailment__What_we_know.html

I see distinct points of impact from projectiles/bullets on the engine windshield in the link above.

There is damage to the "A pillar" next to the window that almost certainly occurred after the train derailed, what ever was hit may have damaged the window as well. The damage to the "A pillar" may have also warped the window frame enough to crack the glass.

Of course the window may have also suffered an impact prior to the derailment, I'm sure the NTSB will be thoroughly investigating.

 

[SarahZ]

I'm waiting for the investigation results. Those same circular patterns appear when rocks/debris hit a windshield. I used to see those in car accident photos when trying to determine if newly-discovered windshield/window damage was related to the collision claim.

(MiRider: I know you said bullets/debris with that all-important slash. I'm addressing the pure "bullet theory" crowd.)

 

[niemi24s]

My Sons boarded 92(13) in Orlando for Boston last night and this is part of an email I just received from them:

"We got an update from Amtrak telling us they cancelled the D.C. to Boston portion of our trip and that we would need to make other arrangements ourselves. We talked to multiple agents in Orlando. First they didn't have any info then later said they'd 'take care of us no matter what'. An hour before departure we got an email saying that our trip portion after DC "has been cancelled due to service disruption and there is no alternate service available." We talked to them at the station after that and they were unhelpful. We booked a Greyhound bus to NYC last night and will try to book a train from there to Boston ASAP. At least we'll get to see some of NYC now."

Will post any additional info I may get from them.

 

[jis]

Turns out there is someone (outside Amtrak) who records all the data from Amtrak Track a Train. Washington Post Wonkblog: Map: Where and how Amtrak train 188 diverged from every other train traveling the same route. The #188 speed reports are shown in the red circles on the data map. The Track a Train reports are only roughly every 5 minutes, but #188 was a normal 58 mph approaching the curve NE of the North Philly station.

Follow the link to the Mapbox website. Shows the speed reports of all the NE Regional trains on the NEC and into Virginia. Cool.

Yup great visualization tool!
Considering the point from which the acceleration to 106mph started it seems likely that this was a case of loss of situational awareness which led to the previous curve to be mistaken for the curve after the Frankford curve. But we will have to wait for the NTSB to give its finding to know for sure.

 

[jis]

My Sons boarded 92(13) in Orlando for Boston last night and this is part of an email I just received from them:

"We got an update from Amtrak telling us they cancelled the D.C. to Boston portion of our trip and that we would need to make other arrangements ourselves. We talked to multiple agents in Orlando. First they didn't have any info then later said they'd 'take care of us no matter what'. An hour before departure we got an email saying that our trip portion after DC "has been cancelled due to service disruption and there is no alternate service available." We talked to them at the station after that and they were unhelpful. We booked a Greyhound bus to NYC last night and will try to book a train from there to Boston ASAP. At least we'll get to see some of NYC now."

Will post any additional info I may get from them.

All that I can say is that United Airlines usually treats me better than this when they cancel a flight due to their own equipment problems. I had imagined that at least the LD passengers would not be left to fend for themselves. But I guess being disappointed is par for the course.

 

[Guest]

Amtrak is horrible during service disruptions (of any kind/magnitude). They don't even process credits automatically and throw up their hands at providing alternate arrangements.

 

[caravanman]

A view from overseas... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32744404

Ed.

 

[Paulus]

NTSB: 43 seconds before end of recording, train speed exceeded 80 mph, 16 seconds before end of recording it was 100mph