Well, clearly they could. Their not being able to is another instance of Amtrak management's utter inability to plan.
Amtrak dining and cafe service
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I hope you report such boorish behavior to Amtrak. The idea of staff following you to your room to attempt an argument is wrong and a bit scary!
TheCrescent
OBS Chief
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No, I am not going to report it. I said repeatedly that I was fine and didn’t need anything, but the attendant did come to my room-twice-to tell me that I wasn’t correct and to explain why. The staff member seemed irritated and wanted to win the discussion but I refused to engage.
I think that the staff was trying to be helpful, despite how it was handled.
@Trollopian where can you buy wine at Union Station? I’d like to try that.
Alas, Crescent, I've led you down the path of intemperance to disappointment. The very useful liquor store that was formerly in the food court at Union Station closed nearly a year ago. (I frankly hadn't noticed because I've been buying my tipple in my neighborhood store.) Too bad. It was never very upscale, but so what? Best bets now require a short detour. Kogod's and Schneider's, at 441 New Jersey Ave NW and 300 Massachusetts Ave NE, are both 0.4 miles away. An easy walk but admittedly less convenient. Even the coffee drinkers are affected by Union Station's retail woes (see separate AU thread on Starbucks closure). Sorry.
At a dinner party of six we had Tucson Tamales with everyone giving them Thumbs up. I’ll compare them to the Amtrak tamale on my next trip BOS LAX on the Crescent in a few weeks. (Return on SSC and dreaded LSL). I’m planning not to eat much on the train as my smalll protest not allowing Coach to fill empty seating in the dining car. This would increase revenues and maybe lower sleeper car cost
While at NYP MTH I was told I could purchase a day pass for the Metropolitan Lounge for 1500 AGR points but Amtrak reservations at AGR said NO but to buy a day pass - day of with tix - at the Amtrak counter at MTH.
While at NYP MTH I was told I could purchase a day pass for the Metropolitan Lounge for 1500 AGR points but Amtrak reservations at AGR said NO but to buy a day pass - day of with tix - at the Amtrak counter at MTH.
I don't dread the LSL, based on my round trip experience on it last November. It was an okay ride, and I enjoyed being able to use the Viewliner diner as a lounge even if the food sucked. I'll be on it again this November, don't particularly look forward to it, but don't dread it. Except for the food and the filthy windows, it was a fairly good ride.
I would dread the Crescent under current circumstances, though.
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What are the current circumstances?
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I will join Rambling Robert in dreading the Lake Shore, esp. the Boston section, except for the scenery which can be very good.
To me the Boston section of the Lake Shore is akin to a gauntlet or a penance through which you must pass in order to reach the much more enjoyable western trains.
To me the Boston section of the Lake Shore is akin to a gauntlet or a penance through which you must pass in order to reach the much more enjoyable western trains.
I read the advisory and will be notified
No diner. All meal service out of the cafe by one LSA. Closed to coach passengers at meal time. Reports at least some crews requiring you to eat in your room. You must order something to sit in the cafe outside sleeper meal times, and reportedly some crews do not even allow that.
Sounds more like a rolling prison than a relaxing train ride and I will not tolerate that kind of service and treatment. The Crescent is on my Do Not Ride list along with the Eaglette.
I found the LSL to be reasonably enjoyable, but I was on the New York section and had the Viewliner diner ("sleeper lounge") the whole way and the crew were fine about using it as a lounge.
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Sounds like on the Crescent slleeper becomes second glass and Coach is “untouchable class”. So I’ll be untouchable for the trip. I’ve planned to bring my own food.
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I don’t have much of a problem with the Boston lake shore. While it’s a short consist it’s got great scenery and it’s basically an afternoon/evening train most of the time if it’s not super late coming east. Lately I’ve found it more cost effective to ride coach to Albany and then switch to sleeper.
Isn't that the point, to show the LD trains are losing even more money?
fdaley
OBS Chief
I suspect that's a function of bad decisions rather than part of a conspiracy to kill the LD trains. But certainly I feel that the current Amtrak leadership at best does not much care about the people who ride these trains or what impression it's making with them.
fdaley
OBS Chief
OMG, I can see the new marketing campaign: Ride the Lake Shore. The food's lousy and the windows are dirty, but hey, it's nicer than our new "rolling prison" service on the Crescent and Eagle.
Lordsigma will tell us to have patience, and I do realize we are still suffering the aftermath of the pandemic and all of its economic disruptions. I want to believe things will get better. I wish I had just a bit more confidence that they really will.
I made a comment citing Hanlon's Razor a couple days ago, not ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
My own opinion is not only Amtrak management does not care, in keeping with Hanlon's Razor, they also appear unable to find their butt with both hands.
Case in point, they recently announced withdrawals of baggage service on the CZ and SW Chief on random departures, withdrew that statement, replaced it with the withdrawal of baggage service on the Carolinian and Pennsylvanian. All while running baggage cars as axle count cars on trains in Illinois that never had baggage service.
Yep, that there's some smarts at work, all right.
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TheCrescent
OBS Chief
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This is correct re: the Crescent.
On my last trip, in between being yelled at by a sleeping car attendant at the start and end of my trip, I walked to the cafe car once. All of the tables were taken up by on-board staff.
Why do passengers have to stay in their rooms and can’t stay in the cafe car, but staff members (who I think have newer sleeping car rooms than passengers) can both use their rooms and stay in the cafe car, too?
The dreaded LSL isn’t THAT bad. But in 2019 going eastbound on the LSA I had my first dose of the original Flex meal. It was terrible and the LSA was busy - in a bad mood and I tossed it. I hate to waste food.
And YES Amtrak staff dominated the Cafe Car tables. It’s odd to see people on break other than a break room. It is what it is. Sometimes there are signs up / reserved for staff. But I can’t think of another place we’re the customer is in the employee break room. kinda weird.
I’m looking forward to the Crescent. In two weeks - haha.
And YES Amtrak staff dominated the Cafe Car tables. It’s odd to see people on break other than a break room. It is what it is. Sometimes there are signs up / reserved for staff. But I can’t think of another place we’re the customer is in the employee break room. kinda weird.
I’m looking forward to the Crescent. In two weeks - haha.
Most of the LD trains that I have been on were sold out or being close to sold out. The LD trains lose money on paper due to faulty Amtrak accounting. The LD trains are charged a sum of the total expense of running all routes including facilities labor and track work. Say you ride the SWC. That route is charged a portion of the expenses to run CUS, LAUS and all expenses to run even the NEC, WAS and NYP stations. If the SWC cost of running and maintenance was considered separately as a single route only then they may even be profitable.
dlerach
Train Attendant
If you consider the Southwest Chief separately from the rest of Amtrak's network though, aren't you enjoying a sort of double-dip? BNSF pays to maintain the Transcon. How could the Southwest Chief ever be profitable if it had to pay its share of infrastructure over its route? Would it even be able to pay for the maintenance of the Raton line?
The discussion comes down to classic above-the-rail costs of an individual train versus below the rail versus global costs.
Above the rail costs are costs directly associated with the trains operation. Fuel, staffing, supply cost and the like. Below the rail includes some allocation for rail maintenance on the line, terminal costs that are not directly allocated (in the old days, many terminal railroads had a direct charge for handling a train and towards the end, some railroads ran into freight yards to avoid them, notably UP at Kansas City). Global costs allocate portions of the entire administrative apparatus to each train.
Amtrak's accounting is hopelessly opaque on the issue.
It can be argued that at least some of Amtrak's long distance services break even or are profitable on a pure above-the-rail basis.
One of the problems is that the closest measures Amtrak has to above the rail include trackage use costs from the host railroads. Those same measures exclude the very much higher ROW maintenance expenses for NEC trains. So you really cannot compare the two, since they are not equivalent. Track access is a superb deal when Amtrak runs on host rails, due the the statutory avoidable cost basis of Amtrak's rights.
The NEC trains would likely show unprofitable if track maintenance were allocated to the trains like the much lower host rail access costs are allocated to the LDs.
Amtrak's accounting methods simply preclude reasonable apples to apples comparison. Intentionally so, IMHO.
Finally, per Fred Frailey's superb Twilight of the Great Trains, most railroads kept a set of books that tracked pure above the rail expenses, notably Espee. It turns out that even the notoriously anti-passenger Espee typically did not move to discontinue trains until their pure above the rail costs dropped below break even. Then they presented much worse looking figures that included below the rail costs to the ICC to bolster their discontinuance petitions.
Above the rail costs are costs directly associated with the trains operation. Fuel, staffing, supply cost and the like. Below the rail includes some allocation for rail maintenance on the line, terminal costs that are not directly allocated (in the old days, many terminal railroads had a direct charge for handling a train and towards the end, some railroads ran into freight yards to avoid them, notably UP at Kansas City). Global costs allocate portions of the entire administrative apparatus to each train.
Amtrak's accounting is hopelessly opaque on the issue.
It can be argued that at least some of Amtrak's long distance services break even or are profitable on a pure above-the-rail basis.
One of the problems is that the closest measures Amtrak has to above the rail include trackage use costs from the host railroads. Those same measures exclude the very much higher ROW maintenance expenses for NEC trains. So you really cannot compare the two, since they are not equivalent. Track access is a superb deal when Amtrak runs on host rails, due the the statutory avoidable cost basis of Amtrak's rights.
The NEC trains would likely show unprofitable if track maintenance were allocated to the trains like the much lower host rail access costs are allocated to the LDs.
Amtrak's accounting methods simply preclude reasonable apples to apples comparison. Intentionally so, IMHO.
Finally, per Fred Frailey's superb Twilight of the Great Trains, most railroads kept a set of books that tracked pure above the rail expenses, notably Espee. It turns out that even the notoriously anti-passenger Espee typically did not move to discontinue trains until their pure above the rail costs dropped below break even. Then they presented much worse looking figures that included below the rail costs to the ICC to bolster their discontinuance petitions.
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Well, some unscrupulous individuals probably tried to smuggle wine into coach on the South bound. One can only imagine the commotion that would cause. Plus, instant shutdown.
Winecliff Station
Service Attendant
I think if that were true, every liquor store in Penn Station/Moynihan Hall would be closed as well….BYO is standard on Empire trains.
Ispolkom
Engineer
I'm traveling from DC to Savannah in December. Assuming that the Silver Meteor is running, it's scheduled to leave Washington DC at 7:24 pm and Savannah at 7:45 pm. Is that too late to get supper on board, and what might that meal look like? Or is that too long in the future to prognosticate?
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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You will get supper on both unless running ridiculously late of course.
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